HMS Terror by DanielD - FINISHED - OcCre - Scale 1:75 - Second Build Started 10/4/2020

[Geowolf]

On 11/4/2020 at 5:37 PM, DanielD said:

Yesterday I came across more Terror information that is new to me. Below are two images, some HMS Terror plans (as fitted 1845) with two cannons at the bow. The image of the wreck is from the HMS Erebus clearly showing two cannons and we know that the two ships were similarly fitted. Lastly I found an Inuit record from the area and around the time the two ships were stuck in ice, in which the sounds of cannons were heard, which at the time was a form of communication between the two ships. I guess I have some cannons to find...

 

wow, good job, interesting! not a lot spare space to allocate it in the ship, so maybe they are for signals and protect himself, what size of cannons? six pounds? eight pounds?

 

i've found this table (sorry in spanish but it's easy to understand), if our model is 1:75 scale and more or less the cannon lenght in your first picture is 4cm (measuring in my model a similar size of cannon), the real cannon must to be 3m long, so the nearest is: eight pounds long 🤨

 

for my mind a long cannon in the bow it's correct, mainly made of bronze with good precision in the longs shots, because they are used for "hunting" other vessels (in spanish they are named "cañones de caza"), but please check it!  😅🧐

 

ufff i readed too much O'Brian books hahaha

[DanielD]

Well, today didn’t go as planned. I got side tracked with one project, then another, and before I knew it, I was painting the starboard chocks (ice bumper). I’m happy with the results so far.

 

[DanielD]

12 hours ago, Geowolf said:

wow, good job, interesting! not a lot spare space to allocate it in the ship, so maybe they are for signals and protect himself, what size of cannons? six pounds? eight pounds?

 

 

This is a very good question and I admit that I don’t know the answer. I’ll do some more research and see what I can find.

[DanielD]

12 hours ago, DanielD said:

 

This is a very good question and I admit that I don’t know the answer. I’ll do some more research and see what I can find.

Well, here is what I found about the cannons on the HMS Erebus and likely on the HMS Terror.

 

A brass 6-pounder cannon from the wreck of the HMS Erebus. Image: Parks Canada (see image below)

We know that the Terror and the Erebus were similarly fitted, so I will go with a set of 6 pound 1:75 scale cannons, if I can find them for the period. I admittedly know nothing about cannons, so any help or ideas (from anyone) on period cannons and the base they rest on would be much appreciated.

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by DanielD

[Geowolf]

thanks a lot Daniel!!

 

i was in a mistake with the size of the guns hehehe. So if the scale is 1/75, a 6 pound cannon will made 2.42cm (too small?) or 6 pound long, 3.49cm more or less... but the cannons in the market have standard sizes: 2cm, 3cm, 4cm 🤨

i think Amati has a lot of cannon options. At this moment my doubt is the way to fix the cannon to the hull, i want to fix it like the picture (second option below), but i'm not sure how to fix it to the hull, i only find the picture in this side and sure the ropes must to be attached to the hull in at least three points (i can only see one of this).

 

link for an options: https://store.amatimodel.com/en/search?controller=search&order=product.position.desc&s=cannons

 

included the picture of cannons and the way to fix it to the hull.

 

regards,

[Keith S]

I know we're all interpreting the historical data a little differently, but I had the same indecision about the cannon. The cannon are depicted in place on some of Matt Betts' drawings, which he's made by cleaning up and amalgamating the data from various original draughts, none of which depict the ship exactly as she was at the time of the last expedition (except the partial drawings of the propeller aperture) 

 

I feel that the location of the cannon in the wreckage is confusing, because they were found almost on top of each other, while almost everything above decks on "Erebus" has been shorn off and carried away by the ice. Furthermore, I find myself agreeing with the theory that Terror was carefully abandoned in her winter configuration in a safe place, while the remaining crew boarded Erebus to attempt further progress. If this was the case, signal cannon would have been superfluous. Of course there's always the possibility that the crew became paranoid and attempted to arm the ship against Inuit. The Inuit are peaceful people, and they tell us that their oral history indicates they found the RN people frightening, but who really knows. 

 

I personally feel the cannon were stowed. I think the ships had cannon mostly for saluting, probably when they triumphantly sailed past other RN vessels upon their triumphant return after traversing the 
pacific.

 

On my model, I have decided to address the ambiguity by installing the rings by the forward port, that the training tackle would have attached to when the cannon were installed as indicated by that one drawing. I do not plan to install the cannon.

 

I'm just sharing my thoughts on the matter. I am not suggesting you change your mind or anything like that. What we know is the ships definitely DID have cannon, and we know where they would have been if they were mounted. We can surmise that they would have been mounted at some point. I think it would be terrible if everybody's "Little Terror" was identical and served inly to showcase the differences in our modelling abilities. Personally, my model is going to depict the Terror configured for steaming through the ice, with ice-bridge installed and sails loosely furled. It would be cool if other models showed her doing other things, for instance with the cannons ready to deliver salutes!

 

 

 

[Geowolf]

7 minutes ago, Geowolf said:

thanks a lot Daniel!!

 

i was in a mistake with the size of the guns hehehe. So if the scale is 1/75, a 6 pound cannon will made 2.42cm (too small?) or 6 pound long, 3.49cm more or less... but the cannons in the market have standard sizes: 2cm, 3cm, 4cm 🤨

i think Amati has a lot of cannon options. At this moment my doubt is the way to fix the cannon to the hull, i want to fix it like the picture (second option below), but i'm not sure how to fix it to the hull, i only find the picture in this side and sure the ropes must to be attached to the hull in at least three points (i can only see one of this).

 

link for an options: https://store.amatimodel.com/en/search?controller=search&order=product.position.desc&s=cannons

 

included the picture of cannons and the way to fix it to the hull.

 

regards,

well, i'm thinking my choice from Amati will be the 3cm cannon with wooden carriage, i can buy it locally in Barcelona. It has a very old fashioned armcoat at the top but i'll try to delete it with the Dremel... so i'll buy four of them, are very cheap 🤑

 

ah another idea to buy, new lifeboats:

small, https://store.amatimodel.com/en/small-parts-and-accessories-for-model-making/product-wooden-metal-lifeboats-mm90-b430209.html

large, https://store.amatimodel.com/en/small-parts-and-accessories-for-model-making/product-wooden-metal-lifeboats-mm105-b430210.html

 

regards,

[Geowolf]

21 minutes ago, Keith S said:

I know we're all interpreting the historical data a little differently, but I had the same indecision about the cannon. The cannon are depicted in place on some of Matt Betts' drawings, which he's made by cleaning up and amalgamating the data from various original draughts, none of which depict the ship exactly as she was at the time of the last expedition (except the partial drawings of the propeller aperture) 

 

I feel that the location of the cannon in the wreckage is confusing, because they were found almost on top of each other, while almost everything above decks on "Erebus" has been shorn off and carried away by the ice. Furthermore, I find myself agreeing with the theory that Terror was carefully abandoned in her winter configuration in a safe place, while the remaining crew boarded Erebus to attempt further progress. If this was the case, signal cannon would have been superfluous. Of course there's always the possibility that the crew became paranoid and attempted to arm the ship against Inuit. The Inuit are peaceful people, and they tell us that their oral history indicates they found the RN people frightening, but who really knows. 

 

I personally feel the cannon were stowed. I think the ships had cannon mostly for saluting, probably when they triumphantly sailed past other RN vessels upon their triumphant return after traversing the 
pacific.

 

On my model, I have decided to address the ambiguity by installing the rings by the forward port, that the training tackle would have attached to when the cannon were installed as indicated by that one drawing. I do not plan to install the cannon.

 

I'm just sharing my thoughts on the matter. I am not suggesting you change your mind or anything like that. What we know is the ships definitely DID have cannon, and we know where they would have been if they were mounted. We can surmise that they would have been mounted at some point. I think it would be terrible if everybody's "Little Terror" was identical and served inly to showcase the differences in our modelling abilities. Personally, my model is going to depict the Terror configured for steaming through the ice, with ice-bridge installed and sails loosely furled. It would be cool if other models showed her doing other things, for instance with the cannons ready to deliver salutes!

 

 

 

hi Keith, 

 

i agree it, it's difficult to clear our doubts... the Terror was not a war vessel it's clear; but i'm thinking in the captain mind, make a new way in unexplored territories only armed with short guns,... i bet for the cannons hahaha.

i like a lot one comment you writed, not all kits must to be made in the same way, i think the same, the differences and personalization are the salt&pepper of this works,

 

regards, 

[clearway]

I have the HMS Beagle kit and the cannon are stored lashed against the bulwarks so that is one option, However on the Blackwall frigates belonging to the East India Company they would store the guns below decks as extra ballast! There are plenty of build logs on here showing cannons being modelled so plenty of reference material Daniel.

 

The other Keith😁

[DanielD]

Finally finished the installing the plating. A little more cleanup and some primer before starting the rivet project...

 

[Keith S]

Nice job. I found the bow armour to be the most irritating job (so far. Talk to me when I'm halfway through tying the ratlines, ha ha)

 

Why and how did you remove the chock channels? In previous pictures you model has them. You seem to have been able to remove them without damaging the planking.

[DanielD]

4 hours ago, Keith S said:

Why and how did you remove the chock channels? In previous pictures you model has them. You seem to have been able to remove them without damaging the planking.

Keith, you are very observant! I guess a couple of pictures as well as an explanation is in order. I built the chock channels temporarily “removable.” This is only my second wood ship and I’m still working on my skills, painting being one of them. My goal with these chocks is to be able to paint clean lines between the white of the chocks and the black of the hull. I’m sure you have already figured out that white is particularly hard to paint and cover well, needing several coats, at least for me. As such I have not yet permanently attached the chocks to the hull. When I built them, I placed parchment paper between the hull and the new construction, which allowed me to easily form the curves against the hull as well as remove them for shaping, sanding and painting. During construction I drilled alignment holes which I then installed dowels in the chocks so that they align every time in perfect place when installed on the hull. I will eventually permanently glue down the chocks, not too distant in the future, just as soon as I have the hull painted.

 

Below, the chocks sitting without the hull; the hull primed and ready to install the rivets on the armor plates with the chocks installed; and a close up with the effect I’m looking for, clean paint line between the hull and the chocks.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by DanielD

[Keith S]

Wow! That's pretty clever. 

[DanielD]

For the rivets I’m stealing a technique from the model railroad playbook, using 3D printed rivets on a decal. When I place them on the plates and then paint over them, the effect is very nice (in my opinion).

 

Here are some rivets I have just installed and some I did a few days ago that have been primed for black paint. I will admit, the process is tedious.

 

[DanielD]

Update: the rivet project is progressing, slowly... to protect the rivets already placed, I have to add a light layer of primer to “seal” the rivets in place, then add more and more and more rivets.

 

[clearway]

looking good, can't beat model ship repetative syndrome🤪,

 

Keith

[Keith S]

That is quite impressive. I did "rivets" in my plating by pushing dents into the reverse side with an awl, which is a technique used in live-steam models sometimes. I was not aware that transfers with rivets were available! I too have model-train parts on my ship: the pump flywheels are made out of "G" scale hand-brake wheels from an American model railway supplier. 

[DanielD]

1 hour ago, Keith S said:

I too have model-train parts on my ship: the pump flywheels are made out of "G" scale hand-brake wheels from an American model railway supplier. 

Keith, I am also looking for a flywheel for the pump on the Terror. I’ve found one, but I’m not happy with it as the spokes are straight. I would love to find one with curved spokes like on your model. Do you know the manufacture and/or part number for the one you found? Or a website...

Edited November 10, 2020 by DanielD

[DanielD]

Thanks for all the support! Here is the starboard side, all rivets finished. Now to do the port side. I think I’m seeing crosseyed.

 

[Keith S]

On 11/10/2020 at 1:12 PM, DanielD said:

Keith, I am also looking for a flywheel for the pump on the Terror. I’ve found one, but I’m not happy with it as the spokes are straight. I would love to find one with curved spokes like on your model. Do you know the manufacture and/or part number for the one you found? Or a website...

 

Hi Daniel,

 

Mine were manufactured by an American garden-scale railway kit manufacturer called "Ozark Miniatures". They are meant to be the hand-brake wheels for a narrow-gauge American-style railway car.

 

Here is the appropriate page on Ozark's website. 
 

https://ozarkminiatures.com/products/brake-wheel-lock-2ea?_pos=1&_sid=6cd8a5e85&_ss=r

 

I did have trouble getting my order to process, and ended up buying a set on Ebay from a seller called "Trainz". But this might be because I live in another country. Maybe it's easier to get through Ozark's billing process from the U.S.A.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Keith S

[DanielD]

1 hour ago, Keith S said:

 

Hi Daniel,

 

Mine were manufactured by an American garden-scale railway kit manufacturer called "Ozark Miniatures". They are meant to be the hand-brake wheels for a narrow-gauge American-style railway car.

 

Here is the appropriate page on Ozark's website. 
 

https://ozarkminiatures.com/products/brake-wheel-lock-2ea?_pos=1&_sid=6cd8a5e85&_ss=r

 

I did have trouble getting my order to process, and ended up buying a set on Ebay from a seller called "Trainz". But this might be because I live in another country. Maybe it's easier to get through Ozark's billing process from the U.S.A.

 

 

Thank you!

[DanielD]

More progress today. Finished the tedious riveting project and was able to get the hull painted black.

 

[DanielD]

Well, I had hoped to get more done today, but painting white takes so many coats to look good. Also painted the inside of the bulwark yellow then added a black/grey wash to bring out the details of the wood and nails.

 

[Keith S]

I think that's going to look really good. I wish that I had done the planking detail inside the bulwarks on mine. I also really like the nails in your bulwarks and deck planks. I remember thinking of doing the bulwark planks and then thinking "eh, nobody's going to notice the planks once you paint it anyway." Guess I was incorrect. 

 

Keep up the good work!

[clearway]

2 hours ago, Keith S said:

I think that's going to look really good. I wish that I had done the planking detail inside the bulwarks on mine. I also really like the nails in your bulwarks and deck planks. I remember thinking of doing the bulwark planks and then thinking "eh, nobody's going to notice the planks once you paint it anyway." Guess I was incorrect. 

 

Keep up the good work!

ahhh but don't forget keith the bulwarks will be lined with spare spars and barrells so all is not lost😉. Looking good so far Daniel.

 

Keith

[DanielD]

Today I’m experimenting with chemical blackening, my first time trying something like this. I hope to hone my skill in this with technique with all the rudder hardware. We shall see...

 

[DanielD]

Well, chemical blackening is a pain...but the black metal look is very nice. Will probably look better on background that is not black.

 

[DanielD]

Tonight I’m trying my hand at painting, in miniature scale. This captain is just 22mm tall. I still have some washing to do, but the base coat is down.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by DanielD

[DanielD]

Here is my finished Capitan, at least for now.

 

[DanielD]

Today, fitting the rudder.