Mayflower by Bill97 - FINISHED - Trumpeter - 1/60 Scale - PLASTIC

[Bill97]

Thanks kirill4 and Backer. When I first saw that some builders had painted their ship white below the waterline I questioned it. Thinking that surly that would not have been the case because of the white would have just turned very dirty over time in the water. But based on your information, it truly was intentional. I am going to mask off the entire bottom of my ship up to the first black line, spray it with a surface primer to cover the burnt umber and the white currently on it. Once I get a uniform coverage, I will respray it white and weather it with a little light gray. Will post pictures to see what you think. 

[Bill97]

Ok guys corrections to the painting completed. Appreciate your guidance and recommendation. I think I was able to cover the burnt umber successfully. 

[Baker]

so much better now 👍

[kirill4]

classic!

[Bill97]

Thanks guys. I agree. So much better now. Appreciate your guidance. 

[kirill4]

Good day Bill!

How do you plan  to fitt shrouds and stays?

I asked due to your very perfection style of making / painting hull of the model...

I saw a few models of very big scale displaied recently( mostly Wasa's models)...and our colleagues demonstrated some interesting methods of making shrouds...which didn' t make good natural appearance at the end...

frankly speaking I don' t  understand why they used this way of making shrouds ,which is more suitable for the shrouds of models in 1:200 and less scales,but not for such big scales, by my opinion...

In such big scale You could reproduce almost natural way of making shrouds and stays and making ratlines knots... all what just need some patience, couple of tweezers , CA , and paints...

There shroud loops above mast tops need to be made , with seized loop need to be done...

than upper deadeyes need to be installed by using cartoon patern plates  with marked upper desdeyes positions,and upper deadeyes temporary secuerd by thin wire ,shrouds location and ratlines positions need to be drown...and than, just need to make all ness-ry connections of all  components need to be made...

But I saw our colleagues made shrouds complitely assembled on the table and than try to fitt it on the masts.,with cutted off loops :(((

..and final results looks not so good by my opinion...still don't understand why don't try to do the same things ,spend same skills and time ...just do the same job in little bit different way...?

So, what is Your plans regarding rigging? :)))

[kirill4]

I would like to offer you some other way to make shrouds... I saw it somewhere on the shipmodels sites and than try to use this methid on my model...actually it was very simple  to use it

from post #32

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by kirill4

[Bill97]

Kirill4 my plan is to use the technique shown is these photos. Make the shrouds, ratlines, and deadeyes as part of the on the ship rigging. Like this better than making them off the ship and then trying to make them fit.  I forget who posted these technique photos on MSW but I find them very helpful and easy to follow. 

[kirill4]

Good day Bill,

Yes, this is what I meant ,in general...

To make process easy, easy to adjust individual shroud length, You could use

*piece of carton with drown lines of the shrouds on exact positions.

*On the same piece of carton upper deadeyes could be secured temporary by piece of wire, they need to ge secured at their places as well

*than free end of shroud running purt need to be turned around deadeye and secured.

*in this way each shrouds could be adjusted to the nessasary length and secured - I use CA gel for final fixation and than apply a few turns of very thin tread above place where I used "CA gel"

*when length of all shrouds adjusted in this way, we could remove wire which temporary secured upper deadeyes to the carton sheet and lanyards could be installed 

*other side shrouds could be made in similar way...

*when both side done ,we could made final adjustments of the lanyards and shrouds tensions...

*finaly we could attach ratlines using the same carton with drown positions of ratlines

as soon as galleon deadeye have triangle shape, there is not ness-ry to make" troat seizing" but round seizing only... and free end of the shroud after final fixation ,

will run to the other side of standing prt of the shroud compare to the shroud secuiring in normal way - with troat seizing and round shape deadeye...

there are other methods of securing shrouds exists,

shown by You

when upper deadeyes connected to the preinstalled lower deadeyes by pieces of wire cutted to ness-ry length of lanyards or paper clip

and than running end of the shroud passed around upper deadeye and secured in ness-ry position with troat seizing( in case of round deadeyes) and round seizings...

when upper deadeye is turning in , type of the rope need to be considered - is it cable-laid rope or hawser-laid rope...

on the galleon model we don't need to use sheer pole...

when You will turn in upper deadeye, shroud better to keep in "relaxed " shape and don't upply too much forces during final lanyards adjustments to avoid shrouds twisting and turning under load...

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by kirill4

[kirill4]

there is another way of rigging... it looks more close to that You posted early

you could scroll couple of pages, starting from post #360

https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=5418&start=345

[Bill97]

Thanks kirill4. Will review your ideas. Just for fun, I like to know where my fellow modelers are talking to me from. I am in Kentucky, USA. How about you? 
 

Bill

[kirill4]

Good dy Bill,

My name is Kirill,

I'm from Saint-Petersburg... from that one ,which is in Russian Federstion :)))

Edited December 28, 2020 by kirill4

[Bill97]

Enjoy discussing model ship building with you Kirill.

[Bill97]

Finished painting and installing the deck sections, added ropes to the cannon port hatches, putty and sand all the seams, and finally a bunch of paint touch up. About to start going vertical on this ship. 

[kirill4]

Hi Bill,

Looks nice!!!

All the best!!!

[kirill4]

Hi Bill,

Painting Looks very nice!!!

All the best!!!

ps

don't You think to make metal rings ( ring+eye bolt),imitation for rope securing on the cannon port lids?

it could be easy made from copper or brass wire,but add more realistic vew...I used  drill 1 mm for the rings calibration , and some sweing needle smaller diam.for the ring bolt calibration...

 

 

same /similar method You could use for making rigging cannon for example...or various tackles ,when tackle standing parts need to be secured on deck or board

Edited December 30, 2020 by kirill4

[Bill97]

Great idea kirill4. May give that a try. That is some incredible paint work you have on the ship you are working on!  I really like the weathering on the cannons. What is your process to achieve that great look. I thought I did OK painting my models, but you are in a class for better than me. Congratulations!

[kirill4]

Good day Bill

To paint cannon I used "Plaid FolkArts" acrylic paints and stains...color wrought iron for burrel, caramel color for wood parts as base and after brown stains were used...

For model hull and masts and rigging coloring I used ordinary artist acrylic paints which I found in nearest shop, I mix them to the color I wanted, mainly I used ochra,broun,black colors for making mix...

as stains I used also !dry !artistic pastels which I grounded to powder...and mix with water...

to fix painted area I used deep matt acrylic warnish,as final coating...

I could say ,that one, paints which You use for Your model( I saw them on your pictures) seems to me are much better!

Edited December 31, 2020 by kirill4

[Bill97]

I use Vallejo acrylics, both Model Air (if using airbrush) and Model Color (if brush painting). I like their coverage and ease of use. I am curious of your process to get the weathered look on the cannons and other ship parts. They look so realistic. 

[kirill4]

Good day Bill!

I heard many positive feedback about Vallejo acrylics paints...

And You and your model confirmed it again! :)))

Do they have stains for making wood and weathered effects?

[Bill97]

Vallejo packages a number of their colors into packages for specific effects. Of course you can purchase the colors individually. But they also package certain colors together they have previously determined best to use to produce a certain effect. They also include  step by step instructions to attempt to achieve the desired effect. (Apply this color then this color, etc). I have a set for Old and new wood effects and a set for weathering. 

[Bill97]

These are the kits and the included colors. They are both airbrush. 

[kirill4]

Good day Bill,

Thank You for the information - this set of" old and new wood effect " is very interesting!

I will check more details abt this set in internet...

Thank You!:)))

[Bill97]

A little work on the front of the Mayflower today. I really like how she is coming along. Looking ahead in the assembly instructions I notice that the bowsprit is angled instead of straight and parallel with the ship. Does anyone know why this ship, and maybe others of that period, had the bowsprit this way?

[Baker]

Because the foremast is so far forward.

I think this info is somewhere in my Pelican build.

[kirill4]

Goodday Bill,

Agree with Backer,and also need to be considered its location,it passes by side of the foremast and secured on the sbs( commonly for english built vessels) or port side of the mast...

Pay attention, finaly it must be secured and pozitioned in such way that nock of the bowsprit will be located on the centre line of the hull..

there is a very good ,I would say briliant book abt all such specific questions of 16-17 cntr rigging...

if You don't have ,I reccomend to find it...or I could share my electr.copy with You,if You want

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by kirill4

[Bill97]

Thanks guys. I have not painted or mounted it yet but this is how the pieces line up. Does this look correct?

[kirill4]

Good day Bill,

bowsprit's tip should be lined up with hull center line...

there is scan from Anderson book regarding bowsprit location...

Edited January 4, 2021 by kirill4

[historyguysteve]

WOW, I have NO idea what Trumpeter was thinking of with that bowsprit. NO WAY was the bowsprit angled so far from centerline. The Anderson book is pretty correct, follow those guidelines. It seems to me that you have choices, all requiring some scratch-building. Since Trumpeter saw fit to put an access hatch on the centerline, you may be required to place the stump end of the bowsprit slightly to port but still pointed directly forward. Alternatively you could position the extreme stump end of the bowsprit just in front of the hatch (which appears to be spurious under any circumstances) and angle the bowsprit up considerably. The idea is to make the bowsprit appear to pierce the forward bulkhead of the forecastle and terminate near the step of the lower foremast. That would solve a LOT of problems and be historically accurate and be fairly simple given that you must scratch-build under any circumstances. 

      How you will solve gammoning is a real puzzle. Gammoning is a rigging requirement. You MUST lash the stump of the bowsprit to the beakhead through the grating. It appears that you will have to remove some of the grating on this model  to properly apply the gammoning. Also you must put an elongated slot into the beakhead; the gammoning will wrap around the bowsprit, go through the slot in the beakhead multiple times and be gathered in the center by more rope winding-check your resources.

  Allow me to finish by saying what a great job you are doing here, I'm personally excited with this build. One of the real pleasures of this hobby is problem solving. Put yourself in the position of the sailors of the time (in this case the bosun and bosuns mates who were responsible for rigging) and consider what they are trying to accomplish with every stick and rope- sailors have a lot of common sense. You have nothing but friends and allies with VAST experience on this website. Have FUN!!!

[kirill4]

Batavia replica gammoning, just for reference...