Mayflower by Bill97 - FINISHED - Trumpeter - 1/60 Scale - PLASTIC

[Bill97]

Completed a little more rigging and started installing the lower deadeyes for the shrouds. The Trumpeter model did not come with molded or otherwise supplied chains to attach the bottom deadeyes to the hull!  I have some small link chain so I decided to use it. I attached a short length to each deadeye, ran the chain down through the  support on the side of the ship and inserted it into a small hole I drilled in the hull below each deadeye. I antiqued the chain with a little black wash and rust color. I also added a little trail of weathered stain below each chain on the side of the ship. I then attached the pairs of lower shrouds to the mast. I will be using the piece of wood jig technique to establish the proper position for the upper deadeyes that I will tie the shrouds too. 

[Baker]

wow, you go fast.

I don't watch for a few days, and you're already rigging the ship
Well done 👍

[kirill4]

Good day,

deadeye chains looks good, there is something wrong with shrouds arrangements...

All the BEST!!!

Kirill

[Baker]

indeed.
why didn't I see this 
will be by my age 👴😅

[kirill4]

Good day BACKER,

Top mast should have possibilities to be lowered down fast ...depehd on weather conditions...

but wnen we will make securing shroud loops like that , it will be very difficult to lowering down topsails 

[Bill97]

Ok gentlemen I am confused. What are you telling me?  These are the assembly instructions I am following. Is this wrong?

[kirill4]

Oh! I understood!:)))

If You would follow  assembly instructions it should be OK!:)...

they are very simplified and not supposed shrouds loops creating at all...

but if followed second picture from Peterson book( which tells us how it should be), in that case You did it a little bit wrong...

You made loops around topmast ,which need to be kept " moveable" ,but shrouds loops need to be arranged around main masthead instead of...please check second picture You posted carefully:)))

there are some pictures from Ab Hoving book ,and Winter book

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by kirill4

[kirill4]

Peterson shown us how to rigg shrouds in exploded vew..,however first pair shown fitted at place, around masthead...

please note first burton pendants need to be fitted,than shrouds...

Did You fitt that pendants for side tackles?

there are some pictures from Ab Hoving book... it is about Dutch shipbuilding ,but in principal rigging the same as used in Mayflower case

Edited January 17, 2021 by kirill4

[kirill4]

I would reccomend first to complete standing rigging, and than to start running rigging ,not vise versa

it will be easy for installation...

treads which You use have too much "fur" ,it seems strange on the pictures...don't You consider to make some treatment or even start to  use another kind of treads, without fur?

I know Gutermann treads " tera " serie quite good in this respect...

[Bill97]

Kirill4 now I see what I did wrong. Thanks. Shroud loop should be around the top of the main part of mast. Where I am pointing with the pencil. That makes complete since. 

[Bill97]

Loop around the top of mast like this, right?  I suppose their should actually be no rigging around the base of the top mast like I had it?  Never gave that any thought before. 

[Baker]

4 hours ago, kirill4 said:

Top mast should have possibilities to be lowered down fast ...depehd on weather conditions...

Indeed, This came into use in the early 17th century (the Mayflower period)
And you explained the "schroud problem" very well, thanks.

[Baker]

 

Yes but not over the mast top
Through the bottom

 

[kirill4]

Yes,correct...

topmast need to be remained moveable... it is often lowering down on real vessel of that period, if weather getting worst and serious storm is coming topmast could be lowered down...

Of couse if construction of topmast allowed to do this...at least in 17th century it was common practice as I know....early galleon of 16 century most probably didn't have such option due to there was different type of connection between mast and topmast, kind of permanent connection...

[kirill4]

backing to lowering topmast we could look at the drowing from Ab Hoving book again - there is special mechanism designed for that

[Baker]

Rigging a mast scale 1/10

 

https://nautarch.tamu.edu/model/report6/

 

 https://www.facebook.com/Maritime-Archaeology-Programme-University-of-Southern-Denmark-74292388918/videos/vasa-rigging/78783530945/

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Backer

[kirill4]

Class!!!

Thank You!!!

[Bill97]

Next Trumpeter issue. They only supply two sizes of thread for rigging. One thin and one thick. Both tan. No black. I know standing rigging was black and running rigging was tan. Should I purchase two sizes of black thread, dye some of the tan, or just go all tan?

[kirill4]

Actually standing rigging is not black...may be dark brown ,as natural hemp tarred looks like?

Running rigging same material but not tarred - should be kind of light ochre-brown color?

But You will need much more different sizes of treads for making good looking rigging, obviously two is not safficient!:)

roughly say , You be need about 10-12 different sizes of the ropes...

and by my opinion ,that treads from the kit ... better don't to use them :((( they have too much "fur" ,on the model they will not looks nice and just will spoil perfectly assembled and painted hull...if possible need try to find treads with smooth surface...

Edited January 17, 2021 by kirill4

[kirill4]

depends on available resources... best results will be by making all ness-ry sizes yourself using rope making machine...on the market we could find many differnt kinds of such devices from very primitive construction and cheap price to high tech very expansive machines ...funny things that final results will be almost the same doesn't matter which kind of rope making device were used :)))

[Bill97]

After removing the incorrectly installed shrouds I decided to work on the standing rigging. I do have some very dark thread in a few different sizes so I was able to use it. 

[kirill4]

traditionaly, there is certain sequince in fitting rigging settled trough centuries :)))

and this is probably  most convenient way in rigging:

first standing -

*side tackles pendants and main stay tackles pendant

*shrouds

*stays

*backstays

their loops on the mast head have to be placed one above another

second stage fitting running rigging,

on the model I think there is not such strict secquince as in fitting of standing rigging, running rigging could be done in much convenient way...

but logicaly it could be done from bottom to top of the masts fore>main>mizzen 

*spritsail

*rigging main sail

*topsail

*topgallant sail,etc.

braces and bowlines could be finaly fitted in last turn ,when all sails will be at place...

[rkwz]

Great discussion guys and loving the extra effort put into the rigging, Bill. You're in good hands with Kirill4 and Patrick guiding you 

 

 

[kirill4]

Dear Bill,

I'm very sorry :)))

but have some thoughts...after watching Your model fotos...

May be there  is sence,  to avoid making mistakes,   to  spend approx 20 min. to read Anderson book?

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/JU7C/bVhk9VrXn

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/Aua2/rJZNnLbhj

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/3Wmx/iJuDBUo6v

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/MpaE/CZdnEmv6e

just read relevant page about each of rigging lines before You will start making any rigging lines.?

.. of couse if it is matter /important for You, to make rigging more or less in right way and study 17 century rigging practice?

if not , and You want just assemble this kit - please continue by Your own taste :))) and kit instructions ... it will be good as well!!!

Of couse first of all it is your model ! and You have to get pleasure during working with your model!

All The Best!!!

Kirill

standing rigging thickness.xls

Edited January 18, 2021 by kirill4

[Bill97]

Thank you again Kirill4 for the information and advice. The rigging in the photo is as shown in the assembly instructions that I followed. See the picture of the instructions below. I have to say I probably build my models with a combination of out of the box instructions (both building and rigging) using the supplied materials refined to correct for some authenticity where obviously needed. Case in point being fixing the dramatic angle of the bowsprit. I like the pleasure of building my ships to be inviting displays for me to enjoy looking at. I also enjoy for other people to admire and enjoying seeing them. People who don’t know a thing about rigging. People who don’t know a shroud from a lanyard, or a mainstay from a ratlines. People who just like seeing the detail work without knowing or caring if it is 100% accurate. I am more about the relaxing enjoyment of spending time lost in my little world of building a beautiful ship than I am in adding the stress and anxiety over wanting to make sure every line, block and piece or of the authentic size, color, and scale. I think the work you do is incredible and I so much appreciate your advice and guidance. Please keep it coming. I am learning a lot as I work through this build. I can fully understand how someone with your knowledge and skill level could be frustrated seeing a lack of authenticity in the work of others with less skill, like me. I want my hobby to stay an enjoyment and not become an obligation to authenticity that might rob me of the enjoyment.  Please continue to provide your advice and information. I honestly appreciate it. Sometimes I will use it and make changes. Other times I will just leave it as the out of box instructions say. 
Thanks again Kirill4. 

[Bill97]

Kirill4 I do have the Heller 1/100 HMS Victory in my stash of models to build in the future as I get more and more knowledgeable. I understand it is one of the most detailed plastic model ships on the market. I will definitely employ many of your techniques in that build someday in the distant future!

 

[kirill4]

Good day   Dear Bill,  

  Please consider my remarks as... just remarks of outsider vewer 😄...   not like demands that You must do it in this way only and no step aside allowed !  In no way I expected my remarks will "...adding the stress and anxiety over wanting to make sure every line, block and piece or of the authentic size, color, and scale....." 
 Funny thing, that from my point of vew , this part of assembling model which consists of collecting information and searching how things should looks  like and how they work, this is  the relaxing enjoyment😁😁

 

Rigging diagrams from the kit which You posted, looks  quite accurate and correct in general,

however some things shown probably wrong or excessively simplified and schematic for such big scale...

please check this knights placed near the bases of the masts - they supposed  for main sails or mizzen sail tie halliyards but not for the main topsail braces as shown in the kit

coming back to this lines n6 and n7 as per kit rigging manual ,  there is no scence at all to arrange them by this way , this is enigma for me, why kit shows it like this? Looks like kit designer missed something in this part of rigging :)))

 

 

 

 

[Bill97]

Yeah Kirill4 since you mentioned it I continue to look at 6 and 7 as well. I see no reason for them or what they may have thinking. I included a photo of my English man o war showing how that was done. Will also check out the correct rigging of the knights. 

[Bill97]

Ok Kirill4 my friend. I think I have the bowsprit rigged a way that makes much more since. I think this is how you indicated in your diagram. 👍

Now to get an understanding of these knights. 😊

Thanks again

Bill

[kirill4]

Good day Bill,

It looks nice! more correctly than kit offers :)))

just for information and inspiration some fotos of Mayflower II , GH and Dufken replica I found in the book and @ flickr @ resource