Scottish Maid (Artesania kit) - where to anchor etc braces

[gthursby]

After a hiatus of around 3 years I'm back trying to rig the Scottish Maid and, as previously, I'm struggling to make any sense of Artesania's rigging plans. I downloaded Petersson's book but recall that it was denounced on here as being very unreliable.

 

I'm currently trying to work out how to rig the braces. The Artesania plans  (attached) look to my inexpert eye to look impractical. To attach one end of the foreyard brace to one of the shrouds seems to me to be rather dangerous. Peterssen's book has all the braces passing through blocks on the mainmast which looks more practical, but I've also seen pictures of braces being attached to the bulwarks much further aft, which mechanically I can see some advanges to.

The braces for the topsail yard brace look even stranger (to my eye) in the Artesania plans with one end of a brace being run through a block hanging from the mainmast stay (I hope I've got the rigging terms correct, but I wouldn't be surprised if I haven't)

 

The only contemporary illustration of Scottish Maid I've found is a painting (attached) which seems to show a brace attached to a shroud Maybe this is where Artesania got the idea from or, could it actually be correct? It depends on the expertise of the artist I guess, though I would have thought that a marine artist of the period would understand such things.

 

Any thoughts on which arrangement is most likely to be accurate?

 

I realise that my rigging will probably be, at best a gross simplification of the real thing, but I'd like to do something that looks at least mechanically possible.

 

[Rik Thistle]

Hi gthursby,

 

Edit: I should have first pointed you towards the seven or so builds already on MSW ... https://modelshipworld.com/search/?q=scottish maid&quick=1   ...apologies.     

------------------------- 

 

I wonder if these pics of an AL Scottish Maid model can help ... http://www.ianlawrencemodels.com/maid.html

...and his build log ... http://www.ianlawrencemodels.com/wipmaid4.html

 

You might be able to zoom in on some of the pics showing routing for the yard rigging.

 

The line extending to the shroud looks like a drawing error, but I'm not a ship modelling expert. There are many others on this website that can give more informed advice. 

 

My AL Dallas build had different rigging and no shrouds but the yards were controlled via blocks.

 

 

Generally, I found the draughtsmanship on the AL Dallas plans to be very good, even though some of the important details were not that obvious on first inspection, but they were still there.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Rik Thistle

[gthursby]

Thanks for that, Richard. It looks as though Ian followed the Petersson book rather that Artesania plans.

This is the first model I've ever built, and I was completely unaware of how much modification the kit would need in order to produce anything even vaguely realistic.

[Rik Thistle]

Yeah, the more I look at Ian's pics the more puzzling it is .... on pg4   http://www.ianlawrencemodels.com/wipmaid4.html    ....about 1/4 of the way scrolled down, there are two pics (identified by a row of storage trays at the top of the pics -1st pic BP078, BP079 etc , 2nd pic BO337 etc).

 

The first pic shows there is a rope from the end of the yard to a block attached (seemingly*) to the ratline. But in the second pic the rope appears to go down to the deck....there doesn't seem to be any ropes going to the ratline.  Is it an optical illusion caused by the angle the pics are taken at?     

 

*looking at the tension in the rope I'd have thought the ratline would have bulged out towards the yard end? 

 

The mysteries of ship building 😉

 

Richard

Edited December 14, 2020 by Rik Thistle

[gthursby]

I would have thought that if you were climbing the ratlines the last thing you would want would be to have them tugged by a brace if the wind gusted.

[Dr PR]

I have been studying the rigging of topsail schooners for several years, and I am of the opinion that there is no single "accurate" rigging plan. From photos of modern schooners and drawings of historical ships it seems there are about as many ways to rig the sails as there are ships. And the rigging on a ship sometimes changed while it was in service.

 

I think Lennarth Peterssons's  Rigging Period Fore-And-Aft Craft is a pretty good general guide. He states that the rigging plan is based upon a single model with a few modifications, so you can't expect every topsail schooner to have been rigged this way. Every shipowner, Captain and bosun had a preferred way to do things. Unless you have photos, or very reliable drawings, of the ship as it was rigged at the time you are modeling it you will never have an "accurate" plan.

 

Petersson's book is a good guide for the general way the rigging was done. However if it has a fault it is that it is over rigged! He shows just about every possible line. I don't know if any single ship carried all of that rigging, but I know of quite a few that didn't. For example, he shows how bowlines were rigged to control the fore course and topsail, but I have never seen this used on a schooner. It is much more common on larger square riggers. Another example  is the lifts and halliards for the foremast spars. Look at photos of modern schooners and you will see that some have both, some have only the halliards and some use only the lifts. Petersson shows a way to rig the peak halliards for the gaffs, and other books show a half dozen ways to rig them.

 

The "accuracy" of a ship model doesn't require that every line be rigged in some perfect way. It is more important to have all the lines necessary to control the rig, however these lines are tied off on deck. And some ships did tie lines to cleats on the shrouds.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Dr PR

[wefalck]

Perhaps you should try to get hold of a copy of David MacGregor's plans after which the kit was developed, I assume. Small images of the plans are in his book 'Fast Sailing Ships', together with a an artistic 3D rendering.

 

I vaguely remember that there is also a contemporary(?) model in the Aberdeen Maritime Museum.

Edited December 17, 2020 by wefalck

[gthursby]

Thanks for both of your replies. I've got photocopies of the relevant pages of Macgregors book and in the small picture in it, the rigging of the Scottish Maid looks closer to Petersson's book that Artesania, however it's not easy to tell from one small drawing. I think I'll just try to rig her with something that looks mechanically feasible; probably very much simplified rather than trying to unscramble the position and function of every possible rope. It's clearly a specialist subject that I don't really have the inclination to become too immersed in.

[wefalck]

The small reproductions of MacGregor's plans in his book(s) are probably of limited use. I gather the full-size plans would be much more useful, as SCOTTISH MAID was one of those ships he researched more intensively.

 

If I am not mistaken, Petersson focuses on the 18th century and draws mainly on Swedish sources, while SCOTTISH MAID is mid-19th century and from a very innovative yard at the time.

[gthursby]

I take your point, but I don't think I'll go to the bother of getting MacGregors plans. As I've gone on I've become more aware of the limitations of Artesania's model and if I'd known a few things at the time I was building the model I'd probably have done things a little differently, such as using thinner thread for the rigging. I'm not going to re-rig the ship though. Doing the ratlines once was more than enough! 

[Dr PR]

Petersson's topsail schooner rigging was based upon the Experiment that was built in New York in 1808. It was an early Baltimore clipper. It was sold to Sweden in 1812 and the model he referenced is in a Swedish museum.

 

Although every contemporary book I have found on sailing ship rigging mentions only square riggers, or very little about schooner rigs, the same basic rules for rigging were used on fore and aft rigs, and especially topsail schooners.

 

Inboard and outboard. Lines coming down from sheaves in masts and blocks on masts or inboard on spars were tied off on fife rails, bitts and ring bolts on deck around the base of the masts. Lines coming from sheaves and blocks attached the ends of spars run to pin rails, cleats and ring bolts in the deck on or near the bulwarks. Inboard to inboard, outboard to outboard. This makes sense because you don't want running rigging crossing other lines.

 

Fore and aft. Lines from lower sails and spars lead to the forward cleats, ring bolts and pins in fife rails and pin rails. Lines from higher up lead to the aft positions.  This is especially true on ships with highly raked masts. Lower to forward, higher to aft. Again, it is a way to ensure lines do not get crossed.

 

Follow these guidelines and your model will be as accurate as you can get unless you have a detailed rigging plan for the ship you are modeling, and for the date you are modelling. However, detailed rigging plans are almost nonexistent. They were unnecessary. Everyone knew how to rig a ship, and different owners and Captains had their own "right" way.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Dr PR

[gthursby]

This a photo of the Aberdeen Museum model of "Scottish Maid" referred to by Wefalck. I think that I had seen it before but ignored it, presumably because it looks relatively crude. It does seem to be attributed to Capt John Smith, which makes it rather more interesting if correct. I think it would be reasonable to assume that the basic rig of the vessel is correct, albeit greatly simplified. It would be very interesting to see the model in more detail, but this seems to be the only photo of her on the Museum's website and its staff are on holiday, so are not available to answer any questions. MacGregor's plans which model builders seem to use as a starting point, even if building from scratch, are taken from the half hull model in Glasgow museum (for the ships lines) and the builder's accounts (for spar dimensions etc). Everything else is deduced from a painting of the Scottish Maid, pictures of contemporary ships and common practice at the time. As far as I can see he makes no mention in his book of the Aberdeen model.

[Rik Thistle]

Another pic here .... from  https://www.authenticireland.com/blog/aberdeen-aberdeen-prettiest-town/    ...scroll down almost half way.      

Now set in a larger base.

 

Richard

[wefalck]

I think the model in the link above is one I seem to remember, not the 'seaman's' style one.

[gthursby]

I think it's the same one, but remounted in the 2nd photo. Both are from Aberdeen Museum

[gthursby]

I misundertood which one wefalck meant. Unfortunately I can't see anything about when the 2nd model was built, and by whom

[Rik Thistle]

Yes, it is. Just taken from a different angle but mounted in a newer (?) base. The different angle may give another take on the routing of the ropes, but it's not a high res pic.

 

Richard