Cutty Sark by rfolsom - Billing Boats

[popeye the sailor]

good to see you back at the table Robert.   you could do like a half cap and the stanchions,  and then cement the pin rail strip to complete the cap.   be sure to leave enough room for the dead eye shrouds.  I noticed you removed the upper rub rails...are you going to put them back?

[rfolsom]

Popeye; 

 

Excellent idea on the half-cap for the stanchions!   I should  have mentioned something sooner.  This may definitely be my solution for that dilemma...   I've been holding off for several months now...

 

As far as removing the upper rub rails, they were never installed (yet);  I was contemplating pinning the pinrails into place, through the bulwarks, first, and then hiding the pin-heads underneath the rub rail.  (The paint is spotchy because I was hesitant to cover my reference lines in that area).  I have 1/16" square by 24"  basswood stock formed and ready to install (after staining).

[rfolsom]

During this dilemma, I have cut out the freeing ports, and I've also started to mark where to drill into the waterway for the stanchions' placement.  On my next day off, I will be testing Popeye's plan (Thank you, Sir...) and hopefully (substantial) progress will resume!

[popeye the sailor]

not a problem ...... I hope it works well for you.......I will be eagerly watching 

[rfolsom]

Ok.  Trying first tests of bulwark stanchions;  I will be installing a 1/16" square support beam underneath the main rail, in order to provide a fixed top for the bulwark stanchions to embed into, and also to provide not only a firm base for the main rail, but a point of reference for drilling pin support locations for the main rail.  I've marked out drill holes in my waterway for the aftmost 10 or so stanchions, and will be drilling by hand with a 0.5mm bit in my pin vise.

Cutty's stanchions were 1.5 in. in diameter, which at my 1:76.8 scale translates to 0.0195 in. or somewhere between wire gauge 24 and 25.

[rfolsom]

Anyhow;  I clamped a piece of 1/16" x 1/16" scrap to the aft edge of the poop deck, drilled the holes where the stanchion would be, and threaded a piece of 28 gauge steel wire through, (yes, smaller than what is needed but it's what i had on hand).  I then straightened it as much as possible, and gave it a white primer coat.  This is what I have...

[NenadM]

Ohh, I suppose drilling was funny. Mounting dead-eyes will be also fun ...  

 

From you, I learn to drill that holes BEFORE re-planking my deck

 

I missed something: What material you used for water-ways? Photos are not clear enough. You just coloured them, or ...?

 

Cheers

Edited October 16, 2013 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

I just drilled these holes last night;  I haven't worked on my Cutty for awhile until now.

 

Upset friends are not funny.

 

peace, enjoy the hobby

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  Sorry, I think I assumed you were angry...  Anyway, my false deck was mounted on 1/32" basswood, and covered with 1/32" by 1/16" strips for the planking;   the waterway was the bare sheet with grey paint on it.  ( Not sure if this is accurate;  contemporary views of the ship show it red)

[rfolsom]

I will not be replicating the rings on every-other stanchion, nor will I replicate the "H" bar.   I'm just plugging ahead to see how it looks....

[NenadM]

Bob

 

Why do you think I was angry?

 

About color of waterway, i concluded next

 

CS is open structure to the sky conditions, and made of metal parts. Waterway is metal part, and maintenance of it is regular periodical work on every metal made ship and in ship with metal parts (rust remove and paint with protective paint).

 

As you look and analyze pictures carefully, you can see that on pictures on which color is red, there is always a rust.

 

 

In pictures where color is grey, there is no rust, everything is clean and clear.

 

 

Also you can notice that decking is on pictures in different color: On some pictures, there is natural color of wood, in some pictures, decking is painted semi-grey or similar. Painting the decking is also regular maintenance job ( I was in navy, my brother was in navy, every year there are de-rusting and painting jobs)

 

That means that pictures with red coating where older, and pictures with grey are younger.

 

It is possible that after next periodical de-rusting and painting, color could be blue or green …

 

Therefore, in my opinion, color of waterways on model color comes down to an aesthetic issue, and a feeling of each modeler himself

PS

 

What is „bare sheet“? (my English ...)

Edited October 16, 2013 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

By "bare sheet" I mean the underlying false deck 1/32" sheet basswood upon which I applied the planking.  I contemplated using red, but ultimately went with gray because I already had some on hand.  I now need to purchase some 1/16" square strips.  Thank goodness Hobby Lobby is a block away;  I believe my fuel pump is failing on my Jeep, and I don't want to drive it...

[rfolsom]

Installed "stanchion rail" (1/16" square strip) and first 5 port stanchions; from stern forward.  Last 3 need to be straightened, all will be painted upon final installation.

[NenadM]

Good work

[NenadM]

I will not be replicating the rings ...

 

I was hoping you would, to see your idea on how to solve it. It seems to me that without special tools soldering is not possible

[rfolsom]

Yes, I think soldering on this scale would be a little bit "clunky" to say the least.  I did experiment with supergluing a ring on a scrap stanchion tonight.  I was able to paint the assembly, but on a heavier touch the ring came right off.  I will try to test this again;  I think the rings bring great detail to the ship.

[NenadM]

Bob

 

I am in office right now without tools, and some idea get me right now, so I improvise with office staples

 

White colour ( or light soldiering) could cover composition of twisted clip with added part of staples, and you get needed strength and durability of rings. I ll try this tonight

 

I hope you catch idea

 

Edited October 17, 2013 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

looks good Robert..........and butting the pin rails along that lower rail will beef them up and make them more prominent.   nice work!

[md1400cs]

I'm really enjoying following your build. Your work is excellent.

 

I remember, years ago, building the Revell of same. A far cry from your beautiful example in wood, and copper example. But it reminds me of how much I love this ship. One day I need to get my act together and cross the country to visit her. Keep those updates coming.

 

Regards 

 

Michael

[NenadM]

Something like this try, a bit precize and cleaner

 

[rfolsom]

Ok, Nenad, you win!  I actually was thinking about this technique at first, but wasn't sure it would work.  So, after several failed attempts at trying to superglue a separate ring to the stanchion, I tried it your way and twisted the stanchion (24 gauge wire) around a 1/16" drill bit.  My soldering iron is a cheap piece of junk, so I decided to flatten the ring in a pair of pliers in order to make it look like one solid piece....

[rfolsom]

...This seemed to work OK, but the ring was much too big when looking at the bulwark pictures you posted earlier, so my next attempt was wrapping a stanchion around a .65 mm drill bit, only slightly wider than the stanchion diameter.  After flattening, I wrapped a piece of 26 gauge wire around the same 1/16" drill bit used previously, cut the ring free, and threaded it through the first ring.  I'm quite pleased with how it turned out;  now we'll see if I can install it on the ship without destroying the assembly..

 

Thank you, Nenad, for your inspiration and encouragement on this detail I was planning to omit!

[rfolsom]

Thank You, Popeye and Michael, for the kind words;  Michael, I would like to maybe tackle the Wasa some day;  It is quite an ornate ship;  I'm daunted by the simple scrollwork on the CS...

[NenadM]

Bob

 

I have one dilemma and i am interested about your opinion

 

Aesthetic question again

 

Final colors and finishes of decking

Gray or natural wood

 

See pictures I attach

 

 

This question has significant impact on the final appearance of the model

Edited October 18, 2013 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  I used a Golden Oak stain by Minwax to stain my deck;  I felt that it would contrast nicely with the Mahogany stain I chose for the deckhouses and railings.  The grey color may very well be more authentic, but I like the look of the golden oak.  My method was to plank several small pieces just like the deck, only about the size of a postage stamp, then stain each one a different color and compare them with each other and to the actual ship's planking.  You can then find out which one pleases your eye the most, while keeping close enough to the real ship to be authentic.  My colors most closely resemble the first picture you have posted above, but a little bit lighter...

 

Here's some older photos:

 

Like you said before about the waterway color, it can change over time...

[NenadM]

Bob

 

I am also close to that reason

 

But look at this ( is it possible on CS in this scale, or is it sadomasochism ?)

 

 

This s not my work, one of my friends wia FB (black fishing line). On pictures of real CS you can not see this, but looks really great

 

One of the "Hmmmmmm" thing

Edited October 18, 2013 by Nenad M

[Dognut]

Hmmm -

little wonder our builds take so long.

 

we really sweat the little stuff...

[popeye the sailor]

nice work with the stanchions.....it's a good thing you don't have to do every one     .......add that method of tree nailing to the book Nenad.......looks cool!

[rfolsom]

Nenad:  The tree nailing effect looks very cool;  However, for the composite built CS, the ship used bolts coutersunk into the wood planks to bolt them to the iron beams.  The holes were then plugged with wooden plugs and sanded flush with the deck, making them virtually invisible on the real ship, and impossible to detect on a model of this scale.  I do hope someday to do a build where the tree nails will be a visible detail;  It looks fun in a sadomasochistic sort of way....

[rfolsom]

Alright... My stanchion progress is very slow now that I decided (Nenad decided for me !) that I was going to replicate the rings.  I manage to destroy 3 ring stanchions for every one I install... Hopefully I get a method and a rhythm down soon... I have 9 of the 26 port stanchions (half are ringed) installed, and I will start shortly on the starboard side.  I like to try to do processes equally on each side;  (planking, coppering, stanchions, etc.)  Parts of the pinrails are drilled, and indeed they have been drilled for over a year;  spacing is OK, the picture shows at the top roughed out port pinrails, and at the bottom partially shaped starboard pinrails with belaying pins dry fitted.

 

I'm not sure if you guys can tell (yet), but my placement of the deck is not completely accurate.  This is very apparent to me as I install the stanchions, and the undulations in the deck have prompted me to give the deck the nickname "Galloping Gertie", after the Tacoma Narrows Bridge that collapsed in the.. Sixties? (I think).  Oh well, this is something I can live with;  and I must give alot of credit to Nenad for the courage to do the major rework he's doing.

 

Next I will be drilling holes for the deadeye stays into the 1/16" square stringer you see at the junction of the bulwarks and waterway, (not accurate, btw) and hope like $#^^ that I can get the deadeye/stay assemblies to hold the shrouds...

 

Happy modeling, everyone!

 

Bob