Help with rigging a 1920s pond racer

[Dobro23]

Just looking for a little help here as I know NOTHING about this hobby or sailing or anything else that may come into play.   The back story is I'm trying to help a friend out by getting an antique model sail boat back in 1 piece.   We are not necessarily restoring it, just trying to replace the rigging and hardware so that the mast will stand on its own and the sails will be tight etc.  This will never sail but will serve more as a display piece.  The dilemma is I'm not sure what hardware may be missing if any and I'm not sure where the ropes should go and their purposes etc.  There are screw eyes on the mast and booms but no ropes attached etc. I'm hoping that someone here can just simply draw me a diagram based on the original locations of the screw eyes etc and show me how to ad the proper lines etc.  Also if there is missing deck hardware that should be added.  Finally I think the rudder may have been connected to the sail?  I'm not sure how to post pics just yet but I will figure it out if anyone replies to this.   Also the boat is about 42 inches long.  I can take more pics as necessary but these show the placement of the existing screw eyes etc and should serve as a good starting point.   Thanks in advance!

 

Adam

Danbury CT

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Dobro23
Added pictures. Wasn't sure how when I made the post

[Roger Pellett]

It’s impossible to answer your question without a photo of the boat that you’re trying to restore.  There are just too many variables. For example, a 1920’s vintage boat could be either gaff rigged (square sails) or Marconi rigged (triangular sails).  Each has different rigging.  Pond yachts could be either free sailing or self steering.

 

There are some web sites that deal specifically with pond yachts.  You might find photos there to compare with the boat that you are working on.  Google “Pond Yachts.”

 

I’m sure that if you send us a photo It will generate plenty of replies.

 

Roger

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

Your description, "a 1920's pond racer," serves only to put the knowledgeable reader on notice that it is possible, however remotely, that you may have in your possession an antique model, perhaps of some value. One hundred year old pond yachts have become desirable collectables in recent times. I would expect you may wish to request that a competent modeler who is familiar with the type send you a private message with their proposal for appraising the model and advising you as to whether or not it is worthy of a professional restoration. It would be a shame to cause further damage to a valuable restorable antique by mucking around with it yourself. Just remember what they say on Antiques Roadshow: "Well, it's worth about $10,000, but if you hadn't refinished it with wipe-on polyurethane, it would have been worth $250,000." 

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, Bob Cleek said:

wipe-on polyurethane

 

 Bob, you really do hate polyurethane don't you. 

[Bob Cleek]

6 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 

 Bob, you really do hate polyurethane don't you. 

Boy, do I !  Actually, polyurethane has its uses and, for those, it's great stuff. (It's great for hardwood floors and table tops that are going to see hard use.) Thinned, it can be wiped on wood and will result in a fairly decent finish if done correctly. That said, if you ever had the pleasure of having to refinish anything to which it's been applied, well... I share your pain. Maybe it's the Luddite in me, but there's just something about coating fine wood grown in the glow of God's smile with plastic that bothers me to no end.  

[wefalck]

Apart what Bob said about 'restoration', there are couple of (European) books around on pond-yachts. One late 19th century one would be:

 

Walton, J.E. (1880): Model Yachts and Model Yacht Sailing: How to Build, Rig, and Sail a Self-acting Model Yacht.- 101 p. (Griffith and Farran),

https://books.google.fr/books?id=qrQ3AQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=de&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

There has also been already a thread on this subject: 

 

 

 

 

[Dobro23]

heres a few pics of what I'm dealing with.  they show where the existing screw eyes are etc. I can take more pics if need be.  The boat is about 42 inches long and 55 inches tall.   The stainless cables are original but not necessarily connected correctly.  String is original also.  The only string that I added so far is on the bottom of the main sail.  The strong that goes through the tensioner and through the porcelain ring.   I saw this in a picture and assumed I was supposed to have one.  

[Dobro23]

12 hours ago, wefalck said:

Apart what Bob said about 'restoration', there are couple of (European) books around on pond-yachts. One late 19th century one would be:

 

Walton, J.E. (1880): Model Yachts and Model Yacht Sailing: How to Build, Rig, and Sail a Self-acting Model Yacht.- 101 p. (Griffith and Farran),

https://books.google.fr/books?id=qrQ3AQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=de&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

There has also been already a thread on this subject: 

 

I found this thread first which is how I found this group.   Not knowing much about sailing or the terminology I thought I'd join the group and ask some more specific questions.  

 

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

12 hours ago, wefalck said:

Apart what Bob said about 'restoration', there are couple of (European) books around on pond-yachts. One late 19th century one would be:

 

Walton, J.E. (1880): Model Yachts and Model Yacht Sailing: How to Build, Rig, and Sail a Self-acting Model Yacht.- 101 p. (Griffith and Farran),

https://books.google.fr/books?id=qrQ3AQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=de&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

There has also been already a thread on this subject: 

 

12 hours ago, wefalck said:

Thanks for the links, Eberhard! I've got a ~100 year old three-masted coasting schooner sailing model on my bench at the moment for a restoration at the moment and I'd found I didn't have much on sailing models of that period in my library. These links fill in the blanks. Much appreciated.

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

The sails are remarkably well-detailed, even to the the mainsail track fittings and jib piston hanks. These obviously came from a very sophisticated sailing model. The rest of the boat, well... not so much. I would guess the sails were inherited from a sophisticated racing model which had its sails upgraded at some point and the model here was built to employ the used sails. The hull can be restored, as can the fittings, many (most) of which appear to be missing. The standing rigging (holding up the mast) may be original to this model, but it is not sophisticated. I would say this is not one of the classic racing pond yachts of the "golden age" of pond yacht sailing, but more likely a boy's homemade toy. It's not without its charm and if restored could be a nice decorator accent piece nonetheless.  

 

A very similar commercially produced pond yacht can be found here: https://www.pondyachtantiques.co.uk/product-page/rare-1930-s-ailsa-pond-yacht-195  These pictures should show how the model should be rigged and how it would appear when restored.

[Roger Pellett]

In my (not so humble) opinion, the model is later than the 1920’s.  Maybe c 1930-1050.  In the mid 1930’s, L. Francis Herreshoff designed a double ended yacht to contend for the America’s Cup.  She was eliminated in the trials.  Maybe she or one of Herreshoff’s other double enders inspired the model.

 

Roger

[Bob Cleek]

3 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

In my (not so humble) opinion, the model is later than the 1920’s.  Maybe c 1930-1050.  In the mid 1930’s, L. Francis Herreshoff designed a double ended yacht to contend for the America’s Cup.  She was eliminated in the trials.  Maybe she or one of Herreshoff’s other double enders inspired the model.

 

Roger

The jib-headed main with battens would also suggest a date later than the 1920's. 

[Dobro23]

22 hours ago, wefalck said:

Apart what Bob said about 'restoration', there are couple of (European) books around on pond-yachts. One late 19th century one would be:

 

Walton, J.E. (1880): Model Yachts and Model Yacht Sailing: How to Build, Rig, and Sail a Self-acting Model Yacht.- 101 p. (Griffith and Farran),

https://books.google.fr/books?id=qrQ3AQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=de&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

There has also been already a thread on this subject: 

 

This link to the book is VERY insightful!  Learning alot about purpose and terminology although still a little bit lost as to what I have in front of me.  Many of the rings and screw eyes that are talked about appear to be *missing* although there are no holes or marks or anything to indicate that they were EVER present.  Also doesn't appear that I ever had more than just 2 sails and never had a bowsprit.   I will take another few pics of the top of the deck and how things attach.   Still have to address how the rudder it to be rigged also 

 

 

 

[Dobro23]

can anyone tell me how to rig the front sail based on the rings that are present?  it doesn't look like there was ever a bowsprit.  there is a cable that runs from about halfway down the main mast, carries the top edge on the front sail and terminates with a turn buckle which i assume attaches to the forward most screw eye on the deck.  they other screw eyes on the jib and the forward horse are the ones that i have questions with.  well really i have questions with ALL of it.    thanks!!

[Keith Black]

 Eberhart posted this earlier, did you read this? Search Google for 'pond yacht' and there are many, many photos. I'm sure the information you seek is out there, you've just got to dig a little.  

Edited November 21, 2021 by Keith Black

[Dobro23]

I did Google for quite a while before I even found this page.  I haven't been able to find my exact configuration.  Looks as though there are many many ways that a boat can be rigged and what I have seems more simple than anything I have found picture of.  Im trying to avoid adding hardware where there never was any etc.