Bending Brass Cannon Tail

[Jonathan_219]

In my San Felipe build there are 6 smaller cannons (picture included) that the instructions show to bend the tail up slightly with a picture of pliers next to the cannon. I'm assuming they are implying that I should use pliers to bend the part but I grabbed the tail with my largest pliers protected by some cloth and pulled with all my might and nothing happened. I don't have a vise and really don't want to get one for just one task but I don't think there's any way I'll bend it by hand this way. I also tried laying it across a metal screwdriver shaft and hitting it pretty vigorously with a hammer and again nothing happened. I'm afraid if I grabbed it tight enough with some vice grips or something similar tight enough to hold it firmly enough that it would end up deforming the cannon and I don't want that.

 

I checked with calipers and the very narrowest part of the tail is 2.3mm and it enlarges from there pretty quickly and it appears to be solid as a rock.

 

Just looking for ideas for a simple way to get this tail to bend a bit upwards. I've considered trying to heat it over a gas stove but I'm worried about trying to hold the barrel steady while trying to bend and not burning the heck out of myself and haven't done that yet. Everything I've needed to bend in the past has been pretty easy but these are just not budging.

 

[IronShips]

Dear Jonathan, 

 

I never done this, and other members of the forum might have better ideas. It wouldn‘t be my preferred method how to treat such  delicate turned parts, but how about putting a tube over each tail, always same distance with every cannon and then bending the tail using the tube as a lever?

Warming up the end of the cannon with a torch before bending might assist in the process. You might have to be careful that the edge of the tube does not leave a mark on your cannons.

 

Best regards,

 

Daniel

 

[Jonathan_219]

Excellent idea, had not thought of that. Not sure what I would use for the tube that would be sturdy enough but some additional leverage seems like a good thing, Thanks.

[allanyed]

You can use a cheap butane cigar torch and heat the barrels until cherry red.  This what I used for silver soldering before buying a soldering torch so there is no question it will produce the heat you need.    Let the barrel  air cool or dunk it in water.  It will be soft enough to bend much more easily with the pliers.   I would put a piece of scrap leather between the brass and pliers no matter how you do it to avoid scratching the barrel.  My concern with heating though is if the ball at the end is glued on.   Also it looks like you put in the trunnion so it may better to do the heating before pressing the trunnion in place.  If it is glued in, you can always take it out before heating the barrel.   In that case, put it back in after the heat treatment but  before bending the barrel.

Allan

Edited November 27, 2021 by allanyed

[Larry Van Es]

With iron you heat and air cool to keep pliable. You plunge into water to temper it hard. I believe brass is the opposite. You plunge into water to make soft.

You may be able to soften just the tail with this method using the butane torch. Practice on some scrap brass.

[Roger Pellett]

LEAVE IT ALONE!!

 

Your instructions do not appear to march the hardware supplied.  whoever machined the part left way too much “beef” on the gun’s tail; particularly at the junction between the tail and gun barrel.  Even with heating, vice, pliers, tube, etc. if you manage to bend the tail, it’s likely to be an ugly kink, and you’re more likely to damage the gun barrel.

 

A ship of the era that you are modeling was built before the use of formalized drawings. The model kit, therefore, represents what the kit designer thought that the ship would have looked like.  If he was unusually knowledgeable and skilled, he might have used one of the known geometric algorithms available to Sixteenth Century shipbuilders to model a more or less realistic hull shape, but I personally doubt this.

 

I would, therefore, not worry about a detail like the tail of the gun barrel.  Finish the model, develop your skills, and select a better engineered kit for your next project.

 

Roger

 

 

[wefalck]

Agree with Roger, don't try to bend it, it is far too thick for its length. Even with heat treatment, there is a risk to rather break it.

 

It is correct, that brass behaves the opposite from steel: heating it and then quickly cool it, will soften it.

 

I am not an expert on the period in question, but the 'tail' looks far too chunky to me ...

[IronShips]

Hi Jonathan,

Let us know what you did and how it worked.

D.

[popeye2sea]

Unless I am mistaken, the only cannon that had that type of tail were the "murdering pieces" that were likely mounted in yokes on the rails of ships. Very small pieces, indeed.  These were anti personnel weapons loaded with grape shot or langrange, that could be turned against boarders. The bent tail was essentially the handle used to aim the gun.

 

The guns provided in your kit seem to have combined the cascabel and the handle into one overly large piece.

 

Regards,

[Jonathan_219]

Thanks everyone, I had been mulling over the visual effect of just leaving it like it is and not trying to do anything and with the information provided I feel a lot better about doing that. If I'm not mistaken this is pretty old kit so it seems very likely that this particular cannon included has changed from the original design of the kit. I feel like a broken record on my build log but this kit is a mess.

 

Just FYI there are only 6 of these cannons included with the kit and they're all placed on a top deck and are aimed through the circular gunports in the railings so the anti-personnel intent would match that placement.

 

Thanks again for the great information.

[IronShips]

reading the other comments, I believe it is indeed better to leave it as it is 🙂