Alignment of yards

[DennisL]

I am working on attaching the sails to my current project - the sloop Mediator (1745).  I am showing her with the topsail at an angle to the mast. The picture attached shows the paper template I made from Steele's Elements of Mast Making, Sails and Rigging.  I did this so I could properly set the heights of the yards in relation to one another. What I discovered was that because of the rake of the mast, when the yards are set at an angle to the mast, the centerlines of each yard does not line up unless the yards are tilted down to match the angle of the mast.  (They are not parallel to the horizon). I never noticed this before so I checked my printed resources and discovered the same thing.  I've never read anything about this in my resource books.  Is this correct?  Any comments/suggestions is greatly appreciated.

[bruce d]

Hello Dennis,

I was interested to see that you are building Mediator: I am dusting off my own Mediator build at the moment after a too-long period on the shelf and will be watching to see what wise people say.

 

Perhaps you will be posting a build log?

 

Bruce

 

 

[popeye2sea]

Yes, that is correct. Because of the rake of the mast and the offset of the topmast and lower mast the pivot point of the lower and upper yards will not align.  But, then again, does it matter?  With the yards perfectly horizontal any difference between where the clew of the sails ends up and the yard arm will be made up for with the sheet line.

 

Where you really see a big problem is in the era of the spritsail top mast. Setting a spritsail topsail over a spritsail becomes nearly impossible with the yards braced around.

 

Regards.

Edited January 6, 2022 by popeye2sea

[allanyed]

I do not have access to my books right now, but maybe someone else with a copy of Lees' Masting and Rigging can jump in to confirm if the shape of the sail is correct for 1745.   Steel is early based on late 18th early19th century so there MAY be a difference in the shape.   

Allan

[bruce d]

Allan, you probably have this already but here is the reconstructed sail plan:

 

[bartley]

This is an interesting point.  As modelers we often strive too have our yards set square.  Indeed when ships were in port, without there sail,s the yards were squared up.  Though look atythis photo taken in Cornwall some 20 years ago:

 

 

Not so square!

 

At sea when the wind was coming from aft (ie running before the wind) the yards would also be squared up.  However as the ship came of the wind ( ie the wind from abeam or from the fore quarter0 ,were the sails are drawing rather tan "pushing",, then the angle of the yards would be vary as we moved up the mast.  This is because the friction of the wind near the water causes it to move at a different angle than it does at the top of the mast we the wind is more "true".  Furthermore, because the wind across the foremast sails alters the direction of the wind across the main mast, the angle of the yards on the main could be different from those on the foremast!   So yards would not always be squared or parallel. 

 

John

 

John

[popeye2sea]

Just an FYI, on your mock up for the sail, the points that you have marked out for clew lines are actually for the bow lines. The clew line will come down to the lower corner of the sail, which is called the clew of the sail.

 

Regards,

[allanyed]

Thanks Bruce, but I was only suggesting someone that has a copy of Lees handy post what the sail looked like for Dennis' project.  We are traveling for 10 days so I have no way to look right now.  What he shows may very well be the right shape, but as he took it from Steel, it is half a century later so maybe not accurate for 1745.   

 

Regarding the drawing you posted it looks like one of the Chapelle drawings of Mediator. This was one of the drawings that Carlosgf used for his build and shown in his build log here at MSW several years ago.  His log may be of some help for Dennis.

 

Allan

[DennisL]

Thank you to everyone that responded to my original post!  The information has been much appreciated.  You guys are amazing!

This project has taken a few turns.  I originally started the project using Jeff Staudt's drawings of the Mediator which were excellent.  I also had Chapelle's information to go on. As  I wanted to have her with a suit of sails I discovered that Jeff's plans did not show either a sail plan or the running rigging for the sails.  I ended up getting the drawing set for the Armed Virginia Sloop thru Model Shipways as a guide.  This was a big help but there were some differences between the Staudt rigging plans and the AVS.  As I wanted sails, when in doubt  I ended up leaning towards the AVS.  As a result, I have a ship which is rigged more towards the 1775 period than the 1745 era.  It also gave me the opportunity to hoist a Grand Union flag rather than the British Ensign. Not quite a model of the Mediator but I hope is close enough to call her an Armed Colonial Sloop. I have included a photo of the model to date.

I hope this meets with everyone's approval.  

 

[bruce d]

Dennis, that's a good looking model. I especially like the planking and the amount of wood left 'bright'.

For the record, Mediator had at least two owners and worked along the American east coast, the West Indies, the  Mediterranean, the Bay of Biscay and finally the English Home Waters. Also, she was roughed up quite a bit when captured and re-captured and needed rerigging: I think you have quite a lot of leeway with a sail plan 😉 .

 

Hope mine looks as good!

[DennisL]

Thanks Bruce.  I appreciate the comments.  I look forward to seeing your build.

Let me know if there's anything I can help you out on when the time comes.

 

Best regards,

Dennis 

[bruce d]

Thanks, I may take you up on that. 

👍

[Roger Pellett]

I’m not sure that Lees’ otherwise excellent book would be applicable in this case as the  book emphasizes rigging of larger vessels.  These sloops with their heavily raked single masts often had topsails with exaggerated roaches to clear the forestay.