Advice on fixing a Poor Stain Job

[Glomar]

Hi All! 

I am currently building model expos Norwegian Sailing Pram and I tried to stain the interior of the boat using MinWax Golden Oak. I didn't use a pre-stain but sanded and clean the interior. The result were super blotchy though and there seem to be areas of which refuse to take on any kind of stain. I did a practice run on the building board which came out great but I think my mistake was trying to stain the inside of the hull after it was already built. 

1) Would another coat be helpful or are there ways to even it out? 

 

2) Are there was to cover the areas that did not take the stain? 

3) Could I use acrylic paint to go over it if I am unable to clean it up? 

This is my 2nd model and first time staining so I really appreciate any advice! I actually think I have been able to do a good job putting the model together up until this point so would be super grateful on any help in salvaging this

[Roger Pellett]

 

These DIY oil stains are nothing more than an oil pigment mixed in linseed oil thinned with mineral spirits or similar.  My father, who In later years enjoyed refinishing antique furniture used to mix up his own from the exact same ingredients.  It has been many years since I have bought any of these so maybe Minwax now sells a water based product with lower volatile organic pollutants, but in either case, the principle is the same.  These are really thin translucent paints.  

 

A true stain needs to penetrate the wood’s surface.  Otherwise, when you wipe off the excess it leaves hard to stain  areas bare.  Different woods “take” these stains differently.  They are particularly ineffective at staining hard dense woods.  I would assume that your kit material is basswood, a soft and porous wood. which should be easy to stain.  It would, therefore appear that the splotchy areas result from glue sealing the surface.  While you may think that you have removed the glue, there is probably a very thin layer that remains.

 

What to do?

 

1.  Scrape the area where the stain did not penetrate to thoroughly remove residual glue and re-stain those areas.  You can make a tiny scraper from a piece of a single edged razor blade or box cutter blade.  In this case, scraping is better than sanding.

 

2.  Paint affected areas.  Dig some pigment from the bottom of the can.  With a fine brush carefully paint affected areas.  Depending on the “vehicle” in the stain, linseed oil or water, with some of this clear material on a clean brush blend the painted area into the stained background.  Let things dry throughly.

 

3. A more elegant solution is the same as 2. except using artist pigments.

 

4.  Nuclear Option:  The stain should be easily removed with commercial paint removers allowing you to start over.

 

Roger

[starlight]

Judging from how the unstained areas are mostly located at the plank seams, it is likely that the culprit is excess glue, which has has sealed the wood, preventing the stain from penetrating. As Roger above me has said, this glue will need to be removed. It may also be possible to use a solvent to dissolve the glue, but I would test off-model first to make sure there are no unwanted effects.

 

-starlight

[Ryland Craze]

If you are unhappy with the stain, I would go to option 3 and paint your Pram.  You have done a really nice job on building this model.  Check out the build logs of the Pram here: https://modelshipworld.com/tags/Norwegian Sailing Pram/

[Jaager]

5 hours ago, Glomar said:

stain the interior of the boat using MinWax Golden Oak. I didn't use a pre-stain but sanded and clean the interior.

I checked the Minwax web site to see if your product was also a dye  and they are fairly explicit in stating that their pre-stain step is important.  They also write to "Test  Test  Test".

Because of the uneven result and it being more extreme where glue was used - this points to this product being a combination of a stain and a dye.

In your situation sort of the worst of both worlds.

A dye is a solution of pigment molecules in water or alcohol. When done, it lives inside the wood and not on the surface.

Back to the beginning, the planks could have been dye treated before they were assembled on the model.  They would have bonded using PVA as if they were bare wood.  If you had done this and if the result was satisfactory - you would be golden.

As Roger wrote, a stain is a type of paint.  It is a suspension of dye particles and when complete = a surface critter.  Not compatible with PVA bonding - because the pores and surface irregularities it needs for attachment are sealed over by the paint.  If the product that you used was strictly a stain - it would probably not be any more uneven than if you had used a paint.  Most paints work better if the surface is first given a primer coat of half strength shellac.  Your hull would probably be OK if you had done this instead of the Minwax primer.

The verb: to stain  describes what both a dye and a translucent paint does.  The noun: stain should refer to to the translucent paint only,  But it obviously does not.  Popular use confuses them and it appears that commercial products also do this.

 

To keep the work reasonable, you can probably treat the inside with shellac that is diluted 1:1 with shellac thinner (ethanol).  Scotch Brite it a bit - carefully so as not to round the wood edges - and either paint it or give it coat of full strength shellac and then paint it.

 

If you are wed to a raw wood look inside, the kit is economical enough that you can buy another one and be more careful with it. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Jaager

[Glomar]

Thanks for the insight everyone!!! I am going to try and do what Roger suggested and scrap the glue away/restain (I do appreciate having a nuclear option as well!) If not, I will probably going with Rylands and Jaegers advice on repainting. 

Do I need to worry about the areas that are already stained getting darker if I try and restain the spotty areas after scrapping off the glue? Should I try to be careful on re staining just the affected areas or does it not matter? 

I tested the stain on the building board but that was flatter surface and I did not even realize that glue could be absorbed in to the wood like that. I kind of came into these models with little to no relevant experience so I am certainly learning alot! I REALLY appreciate all your advise and encouragement and I will let you all know how it turns out!  

[EvanKeel]

I'm building the same kit and I'm at about the same stage as you. You've done a really nice job so far.

 

Honestly, I kind of like the stain as it is. It gives it a used, weathered look but that may not be what you're going for. The floorboards and seats will cover a lot of the imperfections up.

 

Also, you still have several hull supports, etc. to add and this might make it difficult to match the color. And I'm not sure how pre-staining a part affects how well the glue holds. I'd be curious if the more experienced builders had any insight on this.

 

Keep up the good work!

[allanyed]

Welcome to MSW Evan.  Please do post a little about yourself in the new member forum.

 

Never heard of a wooden boat or ship being stained and it can be iffy at times on models as is evident from the above posts.  For my own part I prefer to use different species of TIGHT grained wood for different colors if painting is inappropriate.   

 

Allan

[Jaager]

4 hours ago, EvanKeel said:

And I'm not sure how pre-staining a part affects how well the glue holds.

Using an aniline wood DYE does not affect a PA bond since the surface is unchanged.

A wood STAIN is a surface coat that blocks the teeth of a wood surface.  PVA has nothing to intercalate its polymer chains with = no effective bond.

Agents using surface bonding will bond with a stain layer. Then the bond strength is probably most likely dependent on the strength of the paint to wood bond.  We 'know' that paint "never" flakes off?

[EvanKeel]

Thanks, Jaager. I think you're right. I was thinking of stain as more of a dye but worried about the affect of the oil. But a little reading about linseed oil says that it actually polymerizes as it dries and would affect the surface (all woodworkers rolling their eyes now). I'll be gluing my parts before any surface treatments. I'm also planning on painting my pram, partly to hide the imperfections if nothing else.

 

You guys know your stuff!

[EvanKeel]

10 hours ago, allanyed said:

Welcome to MSW Evan.  Please do post a little about yourself in the new member forum.

 

Never heard of a wooden boat or ship being stained and it can be iffy at times on models as is evident from the above posts.  For my own part I prefer to use different species of TIGHT grained wood for different colors if painting is inappropriate.   

 

Allan

Done. Thanks for your advice, Allan