„Święty Jerzy” („Sankt Georg”) 1627 – reconstructing an opponent of „Vasa”

[Waldemar]

 

Flags, naturally. And here I have the presumably attractive information that the model of this ship can be built in two variants, also as the King David (the 'sister' ship of the St George), under the imperial colours and the overall command of Wallenstein, the general-captain of the imperial fleet on sea and land. For more on this, see the work Vergessene Flotten. Flotten und Flottenbaupläne im Heiligen Römischen Reich deutscher Nation vom 15. Jahrhundert bis 1632 by Karl Frick. Here, only that the entire fleet was (irretrievably) hired out in exchange for, among other things, the imperial modern infantry, which helped a great deal to halt hostilities in the region at least.

 

For this the lower stern relief needs to be accordingly replaced, as well as the artillery set (for which written details are known). All other 'details' are, or may be the same.

 

View of Wismar harbour, base of the Imperial Fleet (third decade of the 17th century)

 

 

[Waldemar]

 

Vexillology for some is the least important issue, for others the most important. To be sure, a little more about this.

 

According to the 1629 notarial fleet inventory, the admiral ship had the following set of flags:

 

(a) „Zwo grosse flaggen, darunter eine Schwedische ...” (Swedish flag; for admiral ship only),
(b) „... Die Andere mit dem Königl. Poln. Schwedisch[en] Wapen” (Royal Polish-Swedish Standard; for admiral ship only),
(c) „Ein bluttfahne” (war flag/bloody flag; for admiral ship only),
(d) „Ein flögel” (a vane; used on both flagships and non-flagships),
(e) „Zwo kleine alte flaggen” (common flags; for both flagships and non-flagships),
(f) „Zwen grosse Topstenders mit buchstaben” (broad pennants; for flagships only),
(g) „Ein klein Topstender” (smaller pennant; for flagships only).

 

Except small pennant, all of these flags are shown below on the St George 1627. Non-flagships were clearly not entitled to most of these flags.

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Waldemar

[Waldemar]

 

I was reminded of the words of Xerxes and Leonidas: 

– Our arrows will cover the sun.
– Then we will fight in the shade.

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Waldemar

[Hubac's Historian]

Simply amazed by this project!

[Waldemar]

 

Final shots showing the colour guide for modellers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Really fascinating Waldemar.  So, I am just noticing now that these early ships did not carry a mizzen topsail with cro-jack yard?

[Waldemar]

 

Rightly so, Marc, and this is shown quite extensively by period iconography. For example, like this image below. But of course, the decisive factor here was the set of sails listed in detail in the 1629 fleet inventory, which I have already referred to above. Not a single ship of the fleet has a mizzen topsail, some have main topgallant, and some have spritsail topsail.

 

Men o’ war outside the coast with a city and a fort beyond by Cornelis Verbeeck, circa 1625–30

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Waldemar

[scrubbyj427]

Waldemar, that is just amazing work! I’m just speechless. What did you render it in? 

[Waldemar]

 

Scrubby, after all, you know it, all in Rhino, even without any software extensions, which I'm not fond of because they just hang the computer more often.... 🙂. Now I can do the manual for you that we talked about earlier.

 

 

[scrubbyj427]

Wow. You must be version 7 because mine doesn’t look nearly as realistic in V5. Well done! I would Absolutely love to build this!

[Hubac's Historian]

Yeah, that was the other interesting period anomaly, now that you mention it - main t’gallant sails only.  It makes for a very tall and rakish looking rig.

[Metaspace]

Amazing!!

 

[Waldemar]

 

8 hours ago, scrubbyj427 said:

You must be version 7 because mine doesn’t look nearly as realistic in V5.

 

Scrubby, but you are absolutely able to create similar and even more impressive renders already in Rhino v5, because I just applied the material definitions without any specialized photorealistic effects that are already available in version 5 (hence such a rather sterile look, but enough as a color guide).

 

 

[monteumbe]

In the last few days I have been reading this fantastic thread and I have nothing more to admire and congratulate for the excellent work of art that for me represents the work you have done with this 3d representation. Even the smallest details of all the carpentry have been detailed. with excellent precision and since I am also a Rhino user I took the audacity to ask about the method used to develop both the outer and inner surfaces of the hull. As you explain in post 146, these surfaces are the beginning of everything and from what I can distinguish it is a single surface and not several that have later been joined by the blend or join command and my intrigue is to know what drawings have used? Frame sections? water lines? or free forms from drawings and representations of the time?

I will appreciate any comment about it.

And of course I look forward to the progress of this impressive project and to see sometime the plans to execute the model in wood Thank you very much

[Metaspace]

HI Waldemar, 

 

how is your project going? It has been a while since your last post 🙂

[Renny]

Really nice work, congratulations. Can I ask you where you got the data on the dimensions of the elements, distances of the bridges, etc.? I am trying to do similar work with Vasa for my dissertation.

[Waldemar]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:02 PM, Waldemar said:

On the other hand, it is believed that ships built in the southern Baltic area had many features in common (structural, decorative, rigging) with other ships built in the north of the continent, as exemplified by the Dutch built Swedish “Vasa”, Dutch manuscript (mainly on rigging) of around 1650 or the Dutch monumental work on shipbuilding by Witsen, so masterfully interpreted by Ab Hoving. As a result, in contrast to the conceptual features of the ship (hull shape), these are the main sources used for the reconstruction of structural and rigging elements, besides the Scandinavian early 17th century contracts for building men-of-war and the French works containing data on timber scantlings (largely Atlantic-oriented “Construction des Vaisseaux du Roy” of 1691).