HMS Victory by Twahl - Heller - 1/100 - PLASTIC

[Twahl]

Thank you Ian.  I appreciate it.  

[dafi]

Great work and tremendeous speed!

 

For the rope sizes consult the AOTS MacKay, but take care, the dimensions are in circumderence and not diameter!

 

Scale down the different sizes to about 5 different ones, that will do the job imho.

 

All the best, DAniel

[Ian_Grant]

Agree with Daniel about the 5 sizes.  For example, the 18" fore stay is not quite as large as the 19" main stay, but at scale 1.6mm is good for both.

 

Same goes for blocks. Each available block size must cover a small range of actual block sizes.

[Bill97]

That is what I did Twahl. I have 6 different sizes of black thread. I use the spread sheet of thread sizes I got and round up or down to select the closest. 
I have .35, .45, .55, .65, .80, and 1.0 mm. I also have a standard spool of black sewing thread for any need smaller than .35mm. The 1.0 mm is a little smaller than the the largest black thread called for but I can live with it. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Bill97

[Bill97]

By the way Twahl, you are doing a beautiful job!

[Bill97]

Twahl I have the new instructions for my future Soleli Royal build. I see in these instructions that Heller clearly shows where blocks and other rigging go on each yard. Does the new Victory instructions provide the same information. 

[Twahl]

Yes it shows the same.  It only lists two different sizes of thread though and doesn't specify if it's running or standing rigging which would have been nice for a nauti-clueless type like myself.  I still am cross referencing the Heller plans with longridge and all of the other recommended books.  But I really think the new plans are worth the cost.  

[Bill97]

I am glad the new instructions show the rigging for the yards. The Heller Victory instructions (older version) does not clearly show it as you can tell since you have both. That is what I am spending time now researching with the old instructions and my Longridge book. I know each yard has a number of blocks strategically placed along each yard for future running rigging. I want to tie all of the blocks on before attaching the yards to the masts. Just have to sketch it out so I know what goes where. 

 

If I can help you in any way please just ask. 

 

I have no doubt you will do a fantastic job. Except that it will take a good while to finish. In fact don’t even think about finishing it. You will in due time. Just enjoy the journey. I am a few days from 11 months since I started mine. 

[Twahl]

I really appreciate all of your help so far.  Especially the words of encouragement.  I ended up ordering the gun tackle set and standing rigging blocks from Hismodel.  I'm waiting for those to arrive so I'm kind of stuck at this point.  I'm heading to Hawaii next week with the family and when I get back it will be the start of our busy season here with the tourists so I might be slowing down until fall.  

[Bill97]

Twahl when you say “start our busy season here with the tourists” make me wonder what business you are in? My wife and I have it on our travel list to visit a couple, or all 5, of the national parks. Three years ago we drove from Kentucky out to Yellowstone and then headed south through Jackson Hole to Salt LakeCity. We had already been gone two weeks so decided we better head on back rather than continue our adventure further south to the parks. Will want to pick your brain for advice. 

[Ian_Grant]

Bill, if you get down there you must see Zion National park. It's like nothing we had ever seen, even though we just drove through it on a loop from Vegas. Promised ourselves to hike there someday.

 

Sorry to digress from the ship, Tom! You seem to be a fast worker like Bill; he has nearly done the standing rigging after 11 months whereas most people take years to build this. Took me five. 😀

[Twahl]

I'm a Deputy Sheriff.  If you take the route from Jackson to Salt Lake you go through our county.  We go from around 2500 full time residents in the county to between 40 to 60 thousand in the summer months.  And there's only 3 deputies and a Sheriff so it's crazy.  

[Bill97]

That is the exact route we drove Twahl. Even drive out that long road to get he shallow lake. Will have to share the absolute craziness we experienced at our hotel in downtown Salt Lake City. Wow!

 

Ian, Zion is definitely in the list. 
 

[historyguysteve]

Tom

Wow am I ever glad I peeked into this build! I have both the HMS Victory and the Soliel Royale. I had NO idea that supplemental instruction brochures were even produced! I JUST ordered them both directly from the publisher in France - the Vic is now down to one copy and the SR is ummmm sold out- I got the last one. Whew!

     Tom; Great job on the ship thus far, keep up the great work. A piece of advice if I may. When it is time for masts and spars substitute actual wood for all of the plastic stuff. 1) by the time you clean up all of the mold lines and paint an prep the plastic stuff you could have constructed wood yards masts and spars. 2)the parts you replace with wood will automatically appear more authentic, very satisfying I assure you. 3) last and most important. The wood is MUCH more robust; stronger, more resilient to getting knocked around during construction. The plastic will break easily and deflect as you add rigging. Oak dowels are easily available at any home center and in a wide variety of diameters, no need for a lathe. If you can use a cheap set of calipers, read a ruler and use sandpaper you are in business.

   I only tell you this because I just moved and now the t'gallant main on the completed Thermopylae is broken without hope. All of those stays, lifts and braces have to be re rigged. AARRRRGG! Save yourself the aggravation. I put wood spars on Sea Witch, USS United States (44), Young America and others and I urge you to consider the 'upgrade'. 

   Thanks Steve

[Twahl]

Just got back from a great vacation with the family and was greeted with a couple of packages. I ordered some ropes from Syren and man are they beautiful.  Works of art in and of themselves.  I also ordered the standing rigging blocks and the gun rigging kits from Hismodel.  Some of the blocks are smaller than a grain of rice. They're amazing and well worth the price.  I think I'll order up the running rigging blocks and get them coming as well.  

 

Thank you for the advice Steve.  I am planning on substituting the yards and such with wood as suggested.  I used to own a cabinet shop and unfortunately don't have most of my good tools anymore but I think I should be able to accomplish what I need with sandpaper and a drill. 

 

So I have a few questions.... I'm at the point where the plans call for a little bit of rigging to be used later in the build, but the lines need placing now for use later.  I'm assuming everything that needs placing now, such as the lines near the bow, and some lines near the stern, would all be running rigging.  So tan in color.  At least that's a near as I can tell.  The rule of thumb is if the line moves and is attached to a sail, then it's running correct? But that brings up another question.  I ordered the rope kit from hismodel and there is almost 3x the amount of line in black than there is in tan.  Wouldn't there be more running rigging than standing? 

 

My progress will be substantially slowing over the summer unfortunately.  The wife has hit me with the list of chores now that the snow is gone.  Plus I've got to get my real boat waxed up and back on the water.  So free time is going to be scarce.  I think it will mostly be reading and researching while laying in bed for the next bit.  

[Twahl]

My busy season is coming to an end and the kids are getting ready to go back to school so I've had a little more time to start planning for my return to hobbies.  Over the summer I've been able to do a few things here and there.  I started to rig the guns on the upper deck and got eye bolts placed for the rigging.  I got a little lazy and thought I would just loop the breaching ropes around the back of the cannon since they won't be very visible once the quarter deck is on. After having some time to look at it more I realized I need to do them right and install rings for the ropes to go through so I'll be fixing those.  

 

I've been doing a lot of reading and studying and have found a few things I've got questions on.  One is I re read all of Bill's log and I've discovered I'm missing some pages and pictures from my copy of Longridge. I might need some help on finding what I don't know when I get to that point.  I've also decided that I am going to rig the boat without sails. A question I have on that is how do I rig the lines that would attach to the ends of the sails? Do I just loop them through a block and let them stand? I've been looking at my copy of Victory first rate and from the pictures it looks like that's what I would do.  I'm sorry in advance for not knowing the names of these lines but I'm hoping to gain an education as I go.  I've only got one more holiday weekend ahead of me and I should be able to get back in full force.  It's good to be back.  

[Ian_Grant]

Tom, for planning purposes if you are rigging without sails..........

 

1)  For a given square sail, rig the sheets and clew lines and tie them to each other. They would have met at the lower corners (clews) of the square sail had it been there, so this is standard practice. Also what is shown in Longridge's large running rigging diagram.

 

2) Bunt lines can be passed through their blocks on the yard, then hitched to the yard or possibly tied in a knot too big to slip through the block.

 

3) Bowlines can be hitched to the yard, sort of at locations where they would have ended up had they been attached to a furled sail.

 

It looks like you don't have the quarterdeck mounted yet. This is good - you need to attach threads for the main course jeers and clew garnets, and the main topsail sheets, to the bitts on the upper deck near the main mast while you have access before adding the quarterdeck. See Longridge pg 267. They come up through the gratings beside the mast.

[Twahl]

Ian thank you for the reply.  Does it matter which side of the mast the lines come up? I'm looking at longridge right now and can't find the answer.  Also the bitts it would belay too is part number 89 correct? Sorry for my ignorance.  I'm slowly picking up the nautical terms.  Thanks again. 

[Ian_Grant]

Yes, the two parts #89 at the main mast.

 

These lines are replicated each side of the ship, so a total of six lines pass through the deck gratings, three each side.

 

Longridge's Plate 46 opposite pg 196 shows these bitts. As shown the jeer and clew lines belay at the after bitts. As stated, the topsail sheets belay at the forward bitts.

 

Have a look at Plan #8 "Fore Top and Fore Yard". The two 8" topsail sheets are not shown, I suppose for clarity, but as noted they pass through the two large 26" blocks under the yard near its centre, then outboard to other 26" blocks at the yardarms.

 

The clew lines are not shown either, but they pass through the two blocks hanging near the end of the octagon section of the yard, one of which is labelled "15" shoulder block for 4" clue line". (I have never liked the spelling of the clew line as the clue line).

 

The huge pairs of blocks above the yard are the jeer blocks. Their 7.5" falls pass behind the yard and on down. The jeers are described on pg 241.

 

Note the line sizes. The clew lines are much smaller since they do not take the huge strain that the jeers and topsail sheets must bear. The jeer and topsail sheets are best represented with 0.5mm thread at scale; the clew line by 0.25mm thread.

 

Don't worry, by the time you have worked your way through this model's rigging using Longridge (instead of Heller) you will know all the jargon. 😃

Edited August 15, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Twahl]

My desire to quickly get back into the ship was thwarted by the return to school and Fall and all the bustle it brings.  I forgot about all of the kids sports and the hunting seasons.  I just finished an archery elk hunt and am in between sports and the rifle hunts so I was able to finish up a few things. 

 

I finished rigging the cannon that will be visible on the upper deck.  I wasn't able to remove the breaching ropes from around the cannon without doing considerable damage so I figured the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.  I painted on some black stripes to trick the eye to make it look like the rope was run through the eyes on the back of the cannon instead of looped around.  I'm hoping that once the quarter deck is on and everything else it won't be noticeable except to the really keen observer.  I've got the day off today so I'm going to get all of the below deck lines run and possibly attach the quarter deck. 

 

Ian you stated to look at plate 46 opposite page 196. My book doesn't show a plate.  I wonder if I'm missing pages or if I have a different edition.  I also picked up another book over the summer, HMS Victory by Alan McGowan. It's decent but Longridge will be more useful I think.  

[Twahl]

I double posted a picture and can't figure out how to remove it.  Is there an edit option? 

[72Nova]

Looking good👍. Click on the 3 little squares between Author and post # in the upper hand corner of the post.

 

Michael D.

[Ian_Grant]

The painted breeching rings look great!  Don't worry, nobody will be able to tell on the finished model.

 

There should be two glossy pages with photographs from the real ship between the pages you show in your photo. Evidently someone has torn them out. It's not unusual for old Longridge books to be missing some of the pen and ink drawings, but some photos??? 🤨 You could check your book for missing pages by looking for the Plans and Plates listed on pp x-xi.

 

Here is the missing page at issue here; the text is helpful.

 

[Twahl]

I just came across a video on YouTube called "HMS Victory: sailing and fighting a Napoleonic warship".  I found it totally fascinating and it actually helped me to understand a few of the "why's" I had about the ship.  I'll post the link if that's allowed.  Otherwise searching the title should find it.  

[Twahl]

It's been a while since I've posted an update but I've been slowly plugging away.  Here are a few pics

[Twahl]

 Some pics of Dafi's etched skylight and flag locker covers. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Twahl

[Twahl]

So my plan at this point is to basically complete the hull and do weathering before I start going up with the rigging and masts.

 

I have a few questions first. The stairs going up to the poop deck don't have any newel posts or railings in the kit.  Did you guys just craft your own or are the newel posts and railings I see in photographs added later to make the ship safe for a museum ship? 

 

I also see there are a lot of ringbolts mounted along the boards on the sides of the ship between the deadeyes. Where would I find a plan of where to place those? Are they in Longridge or McGowan? 

 

Thanks for you help.  

[Mexspur]

Hi,

i made my own newel posts and railings. I think it looks better with them.

[Ian_Grant]

9 minutes ago, Mexspur said:

Hi,

i made my own newel posts and railings. I think it looks better with them.

Same here.

[Ian_Grant]

27 minutes ago, Twahl said:

<snip..snip>

 

I also see there are a lot of ringbolts mounted along the boards on the sides of the ship between the deadeyes. Where would I find a plan of where to place those? Are they in Longridge or McGowan? 

 

Thanks for you help.  

Longridge shows them in the big fold-out plans 6 & 7 and mentions them in the individual text descriptions of the routing of affected lines. Unfortunately he doesn't have a detailed drawing of the channels. Here's a picture from Noel Hackney's little book (much under-rated IMHO) showing deadeyes and blocks on each channel. The numbers are reference numbers for rigging lines; you can see my annotations. Hope this helps.

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Ian_Grant