Cargo winches - Cutty Sark

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Could anyone tell me how the cutty sark's (or clippers in general) cargo winches were rigged? I have a hazy notion that there would have been ropes or chains running from high up on the masts, and a hanging pulley from where they join, spooled onto the lower roller of the winch. But how then were loads moved outboard? Just pulled across on a rope by hand? Any sketches or photos would be most appreciated.

 

I'm thinking it would add a nice little detail to my 1:96 if I rigged one of the winches and slung a load! (Obviously I have more time than sense). Here a picture of one of the winches I've made.

 

[John Ruy]

Here is a vintage photo that may be helpful, although these guys aren’t slinging a load.  Your winch looks great, very nice detail. 👍

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks John. If that chap with the laced top would just move out of the way a bit... :-). It's a great photo though, isnt it. And thanks for the compliment, it took me hours and hours to fettle all those teeth - only kidding, it's 3D printed with a bit of wire for the tie-rods and was fun to make.

 

[John Ruy]

I pick this photo off the internet when I built my Cutty Sark 5 or 6 years ago. It was a Revell Plastic kit 1/96, but I didn’t go into the detail you are. That was back then. I’ve improved since then. 😎

 

Note the block on the far left of the photo and the hook 🪝 and rope tied off to the winch. Nice rope coil on the right hand side, as well. Photography didn’t allow for action shots in those days. 
 

Ok, everyone smile and don’t move. 
 

poof 💥 

 

Good luck with your build. 
 

John
 

 

[Jim Lad]

Kevin, the State Library of NSW has an interesting photo of the 'Cutty Sark' loading wool in Sydney. It's a high resolution image and can be enlarged quite a bit on line.  In it you can see a gin block suspended in the rigging for use with cargo work.

 

The link is: 'Cutty Sark' loading wool • Photograph • State Library of South Australia (slsa.sa.gov.au)

 

John

[Kevin-the-lubber]

38 minutes ago, John Ruy said:

Note the block on the far left of the photo and the hook 🪝 and rope tied off to the winch

John, that's what I thought at first, but when you look more closely they are tied off to the fife rail. I'm more interested in that chain coming off the main mast; what's that all about? that and where the tied off rope goes to. From the angle it's evidently to the foremast (or there's some big fella stood on the roof of the fore cabin holding them aloft for no obvious reason other than you have to have a bit of rope and chain in a ship photo, don't you 🙂). I'm a bit of a lazy researcher so I guess I'd best get less lazy and see whether any of my dust-covered tomes shed light.

 

Mine is also the revell 1:96 and in principle I was going to build this out of the box and see if I can actually finish a first model (!), but as I have a penchant for 3d printing and modelling I have once again gone down the rabbit hole and, unlike most rabbits, have yet to learn when to stop digging. More seriously, I'm just adding a little bit more detail where it's easy to do so and most of the cutty sark furniture is relatively simple to play with.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Jim, that's very useful, thanks. Forgive me being dense but is the gin block this one;

[John Ruy]

Kevin,

 

Very interesting, The Cutty Sark was my first model in retirement that I attempted to enhance with cloth sails. 

I then moved on to the USS Constitution by Revell. That’s where I went down the rabbit hole. I found a source for enhancement parts in the Czech Republic. They have everything from Wood decking to wood blocks and cloth sails for your Cutty. You can go nuts. 😆

 

You might want to give them a look see. 
 

https://www.hismodel.com/articles-category-14

Also the Cutty is in a museum in England where you might find some good info. 
 

Cheers and welcome aboard. 🍻

Edited April 21, 2022 by John Ruy

[John Ruy]

FYI… Here is a link to a gallery post of my Connie 1/96 Revell enhanced with wood decks, rigging blocks/rope and CNC sewn sails from HiSModel.com. 
 

I’m not trying to send down the rabbit hole, but if you want to go there?

 

Good luck with you new obsession hope to see a build log on here soon. 👍

 

 

[Jim Lad]

Kevin, yes, that's the gin block.

 

John

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Hi John, they’re both very fine looking models; at this end, I’ll probably look at the Kearsage next, just because it’s so unusual, or pick up where I left off on the Victory for a while. I’d virtually dug myself as far as Australia on that one and started the Cutty as a means of taking a breather. Changing horses has been one of my better ideas, the Cutty is a much less complex ship and easier to for learning the ropes of proper modelling.
 

I’m planning on the furled sails approach on the Cutty, just because I like that look, but having never rigged a ship before, nor made sails, (in fact nor done any serious modelling!) I could see myself bailing out with just the standing rigging.

 

By coincidence I ordered a set of ropes for the CS from Hismodel yesterday, having been mighty impressed by the PE nameplate that I bought a couple of months back. I was sorely tempted to splash out on the beautiful Syren ropes but thought I’d better try the Amati first given they are more affordable. Radimir also does various bits for the Kearsage so I may well become a customer for life. I’m not too far off retirement myself, just another couple of years, and can’t wait. It’s hard, some weeks, to make any headway at all, with only an hour spare here or there.

 

As for the Connie, definitely ‘for later’. I’ve had eBay searches running for all the big 1:96 kits for two or three years as these kits seem hugely expensive new, at around £180. Both the Kearsage and Connie came up recently and I was able to get each of them for about £40! So that’s the next 10 or 15 years taken care of! I think all that remains to buy is the Soliel Royale, which looks like the most difficult of them all. At this stage I like the plastic models as I can relatively easily remake most parts, via 3D printing, if I want or need to and have something concrete to work from.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

2 hours ago, Jim Lad said:

Kevin, yes, that's the gin block.

Thanks John. That’s a bit counter-intuitive, don’t you think, for it to be rigged from so high up, where the masts are thinnest. But I guess the wind forces would be much greater than any loads being shifted so probably not an issue. If I did include this I think it would be when I’m well into the standing rigging so quite a while away yet, and I can see how it looks when I get that far.

[wefalck]

These are not winding drums on those spills. I gather they have been made that thick to keep them stiff. The runner for the loading tackle would be taken around one of the spill-heads on either side and controlled by the winch-man, while a couple of chaps would work on the cranks. The runner would be taken through gin-blocks to direct it straight onto the spill-head. Unless a loading-boom was rigged, they would use the old time arrangement of the boat-tackle, with one tackle going up to each of the mast-tops and a second set rigged to the ends of the courses. The runnder of the loading-tackle would lift the load, while the other four tackles would control its position.

 

However, this would be a long and labourious procedure and depending on the situation of the loading/unloading port, the cargo would be brought to the deck by other means and the winch only used to lower it down into the hold. Depending on the size and form of the cargo, labourers/stevedores/coulis would carry on board across gangway planks or it would be let sliding down chutes for instance.

 

Some ports also had steam-crances, of course, but they are not so convenient to use on sailing ships. Some of the running rigging would need to be unrigged to allow access to the hatches.

[jud]

Suspect that the cargo was manhandled to the main deck using carts, 2 wheeled trucks and slides, then block and tackles or slides were used to move it below, where manhandling was again used to secure it for sea. When the sails were replaced with steam power, there was room previously not available to rig windless with swinging booms to move cargo directly from dockside directly into the holds where manpower was used to stack and secure for sea.. Think the hand powered windless seen about he decks were primarily used to manage the needs of the ship and her sails. Took a long time to load a ship in those days and large Stevedore gangs were common. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

That makes sense. Tea chests are relatively easy to manhandle, though the dummy wool sacks on display in the hold today look like they’d have been heavy work. But all the same, they’d have had to be moved around by hand in the hold.