Mark m Posted July 24, 2022 Share #1 Posted July 24, 2022 I’ve read the excellent thread here on MSW discussing the Model Expo ratliner and some related pros and cons of rigging on ship vs off. In Ship Modeling Simplified, Mastini recommends putting the mast into a hole drilled into a 2x4 and building the rigging off ship before moving everything onboard. What are peoples thoughts on his recommendation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted July 24, 2022 Share #2 Posted July 24, 2022 Mark, What ship are you working on? Rigging buntline, lift, and similar blocks on the yards is definitely a great way to go. Rigging shrouds and ratlines off the ship,,,,,, no advantages and a lot of disadvantages. There are good books on rigging as well as dozens of logs here that show good techniques. Look at Ed Tosti's build log on Young America as one of many examples. Allan mtaylor, Jaager, Dave_E and 4 others 7 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark m Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted July 24, 2022 2 hours ago, allanyed said: Mark, What ship are you working on? Still on my simple Model Shipways Norwegian Pram. But looking ahead to future builds. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted July 25, 2022 Share #4 Posted July 25, 2022 Thanks Mark, At least you do not have to worry about ratlines on the pram😀 Seriously, study the build logs, there are a number of top rate builds in both the kit and scratch build forums. Also consider putting some money towards a book or two that will teach you neatly done rigging from masts and yards, to standing and running rigging, blocks, and more. When you go to choose your project that has shrouds and ratlines, to make life easier, consider a small vessel at a large scale (1:48) or larger if possible to start. I am sure there will be suggestions from members on books that will help without braking the bank. Allan Mark m and mtaylor 1 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granta Posted July 25, 2022 Share #5 Posted July 25, 2022 Hi Mark Im currently rigging Caldercrafts HMS Diana as per the Mastini method and highly recommend it. Masts are assembled off the ship with the topmast shrouds and ratlines firmly fixed to the deadeyes before attaching the yards. All off the ship. The mast and yards are then placed in the deck and all centre line rigging complete before attaching the stays. The lower shrouds follow. This is my second model using this method. mtaylor, Keith Black and Mark m 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted July 26, 2022 Share #6 Posted July 26, 2022 Mark...visit my log on Glory of the Seas(scratch build section, 1851-1900, and you will see my method...I always rig the mast/yards off hull...then mount the mast and finish things up on the lower mast. Plus you can work at eye level and without any encumbrances. Its the best method I've ever used. Rob Mark m and mtaylor 1 1 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted July 26, 2022 Share #7 Posted July 26, 2022 On 7/24/2022 at 11:07 PM, granta said: The mast and yards are then placed in the deck and all centre line rigging complete before attaching the stays. The lower shrouds follow. Hi Granta, I am confused by the order of dressing you give from Mastini. From Lees, The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War page 158. The normal order of dressing for the lower masts is the "pendants of the tackles, shrouds, stay, preventer stay (on small ships it was sometimes the practice to carry the preventer stay under the stay.)" For the topmasts, the order is "Burton pendants, shrouds, backstays, preventer stay, and stay" Regarding the center line rigging which lines are you referencing on the center line if not the stays and preventer stays? Is it that merchant ships used the opposite order of dressing than warships?? Thanks Allan mtaylor 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granta Posted August 4, 2022 Share #8 Posted August 4, 2022 Hi Allan The “centre line rigging” as per my post refers to the attachment of the lifts, truss pendants that belay directly to the deck beneath the mast. These are all attached to the yards when the yards are attached to the mast (which is a complete unit off the ship). The mast unit off the ship consists of the three masts (lower, top and topgallant), tops, all shrouds with the top shrouds plus ratlines attached to the top, all stays, Burtons, backstays, preventer stays, yards with slings, jeers, lifts, halyards. This is up to Mastini’s step 7 on page 62). This makes for an terrible tangle, but blue tape keeps things in a sort or order. Then… masts are glued in. Then…the “centre line rigging” (sorry for being clumsy with the description) of lifts, halyards. Then…the stays (Mastini’s step 12). Sorry I was unclear. “Attaching the stays “ refers to the final belaying. Grant allanyed and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srodbro Posted August 4, 2022 Share #9 Posted August 4, 2022 Mark: My vote would be for rigging off-model as much as possible. I tried it on my last model, and liked it. However, on my next build I’m going to rig everything from topmast up separately from the lower mast and yard, to keep a lot of the clutter from above out of the way for as long as possible. Also, I’d wait until the very end to add the ratlines for the lower mast shrouds … keeps open space for accessing the fife rail and pinrails to secure lines from above mtaylor 1 Quote Steve "If they suspect me of intelligence, I am sure it will soon blow over, ha, ha, ha!" -- Jack Aubrey Builds: Yankee Hero, Fannie Gorham, We’re Here, Dapper Tom (x3), New Bedford Whaler, US Brig Lawrence (Niagara), Wyoming (half hull), Fra Berlanga (half hull), Gokstad Viking Ship, Kate Cory, Charles Morgan, Gjoa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted August 5, 2022 Share #10 Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) This is my mizzen mast built off model for my Glory of the Seas build. I leave off the crossjack and lower shrouds till after the mast is set and the bunt and control lines are belayed. Makes it far easier to work around. Rob Edited August 5, 2022 by rwiederrich mtaylor 1 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted August 5, 2022 Share #11 Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) And after she is mounted and shrouds/ralines and backstays are added. Much easier this way I think. Rob Edited August 5, 2022 by rwiederrich mtaylor 1 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted August 5, 2022 Share #12 Posted August 5, 2022 One of my masts built off model for my Great Republic. I also added the billowing sails at this time too. Just way easier. Rob Knocklouder, mtaylor and Srodbro 3 Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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