Thermopylae by My Fathers Son - or as near as I can get it

[My Fathers Son]

Made a start on the frames this morning. Still experimenting with ways to secure them to the former. 

Old fuse wire fed through a hole in the frame and twisted to keep the piece in place. 

 

These had come from a hot bath so they were soft and eand easy to bend into shape. Nothing is glued yet. 

Simon

[Baker]

 

Maybe you can find some build info here, 

 

[My Fathers Son]

That is not a bit of guidance, that is a master class in microplanking, producing a museum quality exhibit. Just wow, 

 

I haven't tried the rubber bands idea yet, I have a few around, so will have a go. 

 

Simon

[Scottish Guy]

On 6/14/2024 at 4:01 PM, Baker said:

Maybe you can find some build info here, 

 

This is a piece of art what he archived there but sometimes I ask myself, should it really look like that? Did the real ships and boats really look that acurate and neat or were they just work items and no one spent so much attention to the details as we do in our models?

 

Don´t get me wrong here, I really like the build he did, I like this build here and I like being as neat, acurate and perfect as my skills allow me but sometimes I really ask myself if this would be authentic? Just buy a new car, even Mercedes or Rolls Royce have a clearance between their adjacent parts which is not always acurate (especiall Mercedes recently has massive quality issues with that) and that with computers and quality control mechanisms in place which definitely not existed in the early 20th century and definitely not earlier.

 

My humble 2c to this topic...

 

Micha

[Baker]

6 minutes ago, Scottish Guy said:

 

This is a piece of art what he archived there but sometimes I ask myself, should it really look like that? Did the real ships and boats really look that acurate and neat or were they just work items and no one spent so much attention to the details as we do in our models?

 

Don´t get me wrong here, I really like the build he did, I like this build here and I like being as neat, acurate and perfect as my skills allow me but sometimes I really ask myself if this would be authentic? Just buy a new car, even Mercedes or Rolls Royce have a clearance between their adjacent parts which is not always acurate (especiall Mercedes recently has massive quality issues with that) and that with computers and quality control mechanisms in place which definitely not existed in the early 20th century and definitely not earlier.

 

My humble 2c to this topic...

 

Micha

His model participates in competitions, the aim is to follow the plans you have as faithfully as possible.
He succeeds well in this and has already won several prizes.

No one knows whether the model is completely historically correct, no detailed construction drawings were made during the era of 16th century period.

[My Fathers Son]

On 6/16/2024 at 7:29 AM, Scottish Guy said:

 

This is a piece of art what he archived there but sometimes I ask myself, should it really look like that? Did the real ships and boats really look that acurate and neat or were they just work items and no one spent so much attention to the details as we do in our models?

 

Don´t get me wrong here, I really like the build he did, I like this build here and I like being as neat, acurate and perfect as my skills allow me but sometimes I really ask myself if this would be authentic? Just buy a new car, even Mercedes or Rolls Royce have a clearance between their adjacent parts which is not always acurate (especiall Mercedes recently has massive quality issues with that) and that with computers and quality control mechanisms in place which definitely not existed in the early 20th century and definitely not earlier.

 

My humble 2c to this topic...

 

Micha

I think a lot of people think the world has gone health and safety mad but in some ways we have gone backwards. I think life on board ship would have switched from abject boredom to manic action in a heartbeat and an untidy ship would have been a nightmare, not just for the risk factors, but for controlling the ship as well. 

The idea of have to change tack in a force 8 gale at night and having to stumble about in the dark trying to identify what ropes you needed or if they were left tangled by the last person to use it would likely result in the loss of the ship. 

Discipline aboard ship, not just in the Andrew, but on commercial vessels as well was of the utmost importance. 

There was one voyage on Cutty Sark well documented where a Bosun used excessive force to discipline a sailor and killed him. The captain, an alcoholic, let the Bosun escape before they made port and to avoid a trial for himself, was suspected of going overboard to avoid the shame for his own misconduct and the loss of his masters ticket. 

So do we go overboard on detail, probably not, most models are of a ship in port, so would be spick and span in preparation for the next voyage. 

We do however get the opportunity to decide to what level of detail we go to. Personally, I will go as far as I am able, recognising my own limitations on capability and affordability and will be proad of my achievement. It might not be even close to the model used as your example or models by many here such a Rob, Keith or Chuck but it will be my choice and by my hand and hopefully recognisable as a representative of the ship it's modelled on. 

Not a rant, just my 2 penny's worth. 

Simon 

Edited Wednesday at 09:06 AM by My Fathers Son

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

[Scottish Guy]

9 hours ago, My Fathers Son said:

The idea of have to change tack in a force 8 gale at night and having to stumble about in the dark trying to identify what ropes you needed or if they were left tangled by the last person to use it would likely result in the loss of the ship. 

 

I crossed the Atlantic ocean twice in a sail boat and I know what you are talking about. I also get your point of going as far as possible about building a scale model. I think I made my point not clear as I don´t judge anybody, especially not for being super acurate or trying to be as perfect as possible.

 

I just tried to make a point that in the past not one boat or ship has been build with such a perfection that the planking was mirrored perfect or the planks ended equally at the same point. I dare even to say that they never had the tools to be that perfect and I doubt that they had the time to be that perfect, so I was wondering why we try to reach perfection in our scale models. That was all I tried to explain.

 

I get the point that people try to get to the most perfect point, I try to be perfect in skills I know well in skills I don´t know well I try at least my best. But does a scale model have to be looking more perfect than the original? But that´s just my humble opinion and I definitely don´t judge anybody that tries to deliver a perfect scale model, I adore people that can bring a model to museum level perfection. SO don´t get me wrong folks, I just stated an opinion.

 

If I made someone feel uncomfortable or even felt attacked by my comment I deeply want to apologise and hope you will accept it. Thank you all for your kindness.

 

Micha

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, Scottish Guy said:

I just tried to make a point that in the past not one boat or ship has been build with such a perfection that the planking was mirrored perfect or the planks ended equally at the same point

 Micha, I disagree. Please view the below as Leo (Sampson Boat Co) planks the Tally Ho. (I highly recommend watching the entire series.) There are videos of them planking the deck, both are nothing short of perfection. I've watched other wooden boat builds on YouTube where the builders are making near perfect vessels. 

 

 Now, maybe one doesn't often or ever see perfection in glass hulls coming off a factory floor but one off wooden hull boats is a different critter. 

 

   Keith

[My Fathers Son]

Oops, a nerve has been touched, I will also take the opportunity to say that no offence was taken nor intended in my reply, and if it was taken, then I apologise unreservedly. 

I will say that my planking will definitely not be mirror perfect, nor would I expect that a commercial construction such as these clippers would have been. But I stand by my point that they would have been run with almost fanatical precision as so much was at stake. 

 

So, the fun part. The life boat mkii was a bust, it would have turned out as a boat, just the wrong shape for a lifeboat. I will review my mantua CS plans as this is the same scale and their lifeboats would have been stock. 

 

Got back to the main event. I found some Balsa and managed to fill in under the stern, I need more but am not paying £5 for 1/4" * 4" * 24" length, bah humbug. That's half of what I paid for 1sq meter ply I used for the base. 

Keel has been planked over and garboard strake is done on both sides. I might be making my life difficult using 5" lengths, but there were very few trees that produced 215' planks so it's my little bit of realism. 

 

Simon

[Baker]

Scratch modeling is fun. And you are doing a very good job.

And yes, those little life boats are actually a model in themselves. I always enjoy following the construction of one of these, but starting building one myself...🤔 😉

[Keith Black]

5 hours ago, My Fathers Son said:

there were very few trees that produced 215' planks

 Simon, I dare say it was the length of the steam box that controlled plank length more so than tree height. I think 24' would have been the limit in plank length?

[Keith Black]

16 hours ago, Keith Black said:

Please view the below as Leo (Sampson Boat Co) planks the Tally Ho. (I highly recommend watching the entire series.) There are videos of them planking the deck, both are nothing short of perfection.

Well, duh. I didn't post the link, sorry.

 

 

  

 

[My Fathers Son]

5 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 Simon, I dare say it was the length of the steam box that controlled plank length more so than tree height. I think 24' would have been the limit in plank length?

So my planks are running at approximately 18cm long by 5mm wide. 180mm is about 56 feet long by 1.5ft wide so maybe not quite to scale. 

 

I have to take an accurate measurement of the edge of each frame from the lowest strake after the garboard strake to the intended run of the top strake. There are 23 strakes in the central area.

I suspect the rear will take more and will be requiring stealer. However, forward of the central area needed 3 less strakes. 

 

I will measure frames 2 to 12. That measurement will be divided by 23 to get the correct width of the strake at that point. This will be unique to each strake section so may take a while. 

Nothing glued, just counting planks. 

Simon

[My Fathers Son]

Making slow progress but I know patience is key with this. 

One thing extending the time scale is I am not using CA, but PVA. Keeping glue to minimum but coating all areas of contact. Thus is resulting in firm boards just making the hull stronger. 

 

Simon