Le Soleil Royal by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100

[Bill97]

Oh OK Marc thanks. Already started reading through it. 

 

Hey Kevin, saw your post. Thanks for following. Yes Daniel has a topic on making chain plates. I have it along with a couple others showing how to make chains bookmarked. I ordered the .5 mm brass wire Daniel uses. 

[72Nova]

Thanks for the Kudos Marc! Unfortunately I didn't really describe my leafing technique/tricks I used but will be more than happy to explain it to you Bill when the time comes.

 

Michael D.

[Bill97]

Thanks Michael. Would appreciate that whenever you can. I have done gold leaf many years ago but could certainly use a refresher. I have the gold leaf, sizing, brushes, and varnish. I am looking over the pieces now as I text. Trying to decide which way is best, paint the entire piece the desired color then gold leaf the tiny ornamentation, or gold leaf the entire piece then paint the desired color around all the ornamentation. I am leaning more toward the first option since I use acrylics and not sure they would cover the gold leaf effectively. Would not want to have to do several coats all around the tiny ornamentation. 

 

Kpnuts did gold leaf on his SR build using the option of full gold leaf then paint. His looks good. 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Bill97

[72Nova]

Bill,

I painted all the main pieces first, hull, stern etc ...for the figurines and decorations with deep crevices I painted those gold first as the leaf will tear before covering those areas and blends in nicely, sure you'll have go back and add small pieces here and there but it does speed up the process. Besides a good brush a sharp toothpick came in handy to rub off any excess sizing that may have gotten on the paint and leaves a clean edge before applying the leaf and will not mar the paint and also aides in removing any stubborn leaf along the edges for a very clean look.

As far as sealing it, I didn't really find it necessary as none of it rubbed off while handling the model, plus I was after full bling on that build. Hope that helps?

 

Michael D.

 

[Bill97]

That helps a lot Michael. Painting some parts first is genius. Thanks

Edited October 19, 2022 by Bill97

[Bill97]

Marc following up on a previous question, what size wood deadeyes did you use?  I know it will be quite some time before I need them but I am putting together my shopping list. I have some wood deadeyes as I mentioned, but want to make sure I use the size most correct. 

Thanks

[Hubac's Historian]

Frankly, Bill, I just haven’t gotten around to figuring out anything with regard to blocks and line.  I still have a fair amount of structure to build before I’m really there, at the upper main deck, where I have to figure that out.

 

I thought Henry mentioned his deadeye sizes in an earlier post.  You should take a close look at his log.  He has a broad knowledge of rigging and how it is supposed to function.

[72Nova]

I would think what you used on your Victory would be appropriate. 5mm on fore and main channels, 4mm on mizen channels, 3.5mm on fore and main tops and 2.5mm on mizen should fit the bill Bill😀

 

Michael D.

[Bill97]

Thanks Michael. Thats perfect. Appreciate it. 
 

Bill

[Bill97]

Beginning to scratch the surface on my Soleil Royal build. A little trick I learned while building my Victory is to use Evergreen to frame the inside of the gun ports. When finished and painted it gives the illusion of the hull being thicker when looking in the gun ports. The hull wall would be thicker on the lower decks and gradually becoming thinner as you move to the upper most deck so I am using 2.5 x 2.5 mm for the lower deck and 2.0 x 2.0 mm for the next level. Both these decks will be covered by the deck above so the frames will not show. 

[Hubac's Historian]

I did the same, Bill.  It really makes a huge difference in perception.  Totally worth the effort.

[Bill97]

You may have noticed I do a lot of prebuild planning and thinking. I often pause taking a step because I want to know all the options of how something can be done or how something should be done. Try to avoid looking back and thinking “wow, I wish I would have done that differently”.  That of course is the mixed blessing of MSW. I learn so much from all my friends but then get stuck in analysis paralysis. With that in mind I have two questions for you guys. One very much comes under the heading It’s your ship do it as you want. The other is a technical question. 
 

1.  I see here on MSW and other places the bottom of the SR hull painted white. I also see it in other photos as total wood color. The Heller box shows a white bottom. I can not decide which way to go. I like both. Should I assume to be authentic it needs to be white?

 

2.  I am going to make my own chains as we discussed above. I have already purchased my brass wire and I have a soldering iron ( don’t want to use a torch for different reasons). My technical question is about the best solder to use. I read there is silver solder, lead free solder, high melt point, low melt point, etc. want to do a lot of practice before making my chains. What solder should I get?

[Ian_Grant]

Bill, they used to paint the u/w hulls with "white stuff", their version of anti-fouling paint. It was a white sulfurous resin. I plan to sand off all the exaggerated wood grain below w/l when I get to SR and just leave the plank seams, for what it's worth. Oh and by the way, you should move the w/l up the hull which means sanding off Heller's molded w/l guidance.

 

I have no experience with silver solder but it seems to give far stronger joins than lead/tin. I think there is a whole thread on soldering on this site.

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. My Mayflower has a white bottom as was the practice at the time. I like it but I also like the wood color like the other photo I included here. I forget who’s ship it is. From what you are saying white would be the more authentic. 

[Bill Morrison]

Although I have not gone the outstanding route taken by Hubac's Historian with my SR, I sanded off the wood grain and waterline, raised the waterline to the lowest wale as depicted in Lemineur's excellent book, added Evergreen thickening to the gunports, opened the quarter galleries, changed the dimensions of masts and spars according to the tables in Mondfeld's book, added a galley stovepipe (again from Mondfeld's book), and scratch built a chicken coop (again per Mondfeld).  I used an "aged white" for the lower hull I found in the "Railroad Colors" line by the now defunct Model Master.  The raised waterline goes a long way towards correcting some of the dimensional problems, and the added Evergreen stock and deck details turned her into a reasonable model.

 

Bill

Edited October 22, 2022 by Bill Morrison
I added a thought.

[Veszett Roka]

It seems that hull color vary in time, navy, recipe, so all color would be fine. This article might help, albeit it is old.

 

[Bill97]

I have to admit this may be my most favorite representation of the SR. Bill I definitely plan to do some of the things you did. 

[Hubac's Historian]

At the end of the day, Bill, it is your model and you should build it according to your preferences.  I have seen most Heller SR builds in the public domain, but that one above, I haven’t seen before.  The natural wood bottom is interesting.

 

Main thing you definitely want to do, as others have said, is to raise the water line to just below where the lower main wale sits lowest, at mid-ships.  Without that modification, the model just looks top-heavy.

[Bill97]

If I went with the scheme above (not saying I have decided) the water line does not come into play, does it?

Edited October 22, 2022 by Bill97

[Bill97]

Here are some other pictures of that ship. Do not remember the source. I probably have 100 or more SR reference photos I use for reference. Had an entire file of Victory photos that numbered hundreds. Quite a few belonged to all you guys who helped me along the way. 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Bill97

[Bill97]

I think the direction I am currently leaning, subject to change, is if I go with wood color bottom I will use the second photo scheme. If I go with a white bottom I will use the first color scheme. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Thanks for the extra pics of that model, Bill!

[Hubac's Historian]

Without the black boot-topping, the waterline issue is not a problem, but you’re still gonna want to scrape away the moulded waterline, cuz it’ll definitely show up as a distraction.  This is if you opt for the natural wood bottom.

 

If you look closely, you’ll see that this builder scraped it away.

 

I’ll also mention that this person made pretty good and convincing cloth sails.  AND, the so-called “ventre-de-biche” color (belly of the doe) is a pretty close approximation of historical accuracy.

[Baker]

14 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Thanks Ian. My Mayflower has a white bottom as was the practice at the time. I like it but I also like the wood color like the other photo I included here. I forget who’s ship it is. From what you are saying white would be the more authentic. 

I would go for white or wood color. I built my SR "out of the box" a long time ago, with a black bottom.

that's the only thing i regret about my model

[Bill97]

Thanks Marc. From your comment I am assuming you were able to read the French in the first picture? 😊

 

 AND, the so-called “ventre-de-biche” color (belly of the doe) 

 

Not sure what this means. 
 

Also thank you Baker for your comment. Appreciate the input. 

 

[popeye2sea]

ventre-de-biche is French for belly of the doe.  He is referring to the tan color of the sides.

 

Regards,

[Hubac's Historian]

I’m not sure what language that is, but not French.

 

”Ventre de biche” is a French name for this particular color that they painted between the  boot topping and the upper main wale.  It resembles the tawny color of a deer hide.

 

My “deadworks” (another funny French-ism associated with ships: the underhull below the waterline is the “liveworks” because that is the part of the ship that is engaged with the sea, its kinetic medium.  Everything above the waterline is the “deadworks.”) started out more ventre-de-biche:

 

But, then, I overdid the distressing:

 

I was forced to darken the port side (lighter, above) to match the starboard (darker, behind).

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Hubac's Historian

[Bill97]

Thanks Marc. As always very helpful and informative. 

[Bill97]

Ok my friends now that I have my Victory safely in her case I can seriously get into my SR. Today I burnt up my credit card ordering a bunch of stuff I am going to eventually need (paint, thread, solder, etc.).

I also got back to framing the inside of each of the gun ports. Upper deck done and now the slightly larger Evergreen for the Middle deck. Also started removing the moulded waterline on the hull halves

[Bill97]

Again doing long range study. Cutting little pieces of Evergreen to glue around the gunports get a little old (can’t wait to start working on the cannons 😕) so I take a break an study other stuff. I noticed most builders cut out the openings in the side galleries and fabricate a floor for each deck. Popeye2sea you show a good photo of adding the removed section s to the side of the bulwark. I want to do the same when I get that far. Would you care to tell me what you did? How you made it look as if it was designed that way?