Rattlesnake by Cpt Striker - Model Shipways

[Cpt Striker]

I am tackling my first intermediate model, the Expo Rattlesnake.  I see some nice logs out there, and perhaps I will start a log.  Any suggestions before I start?   I am intimidated, because there are not "step by step" like other models that I build.   A few questions of my own before I start.

1)  Why not sand the Rabbets instead of cutting them?   Sand them before gluing any bottom keel?

2)  If you do cut rabbets, how  do you you measure 1/16th of an inch cut off with such a crude chisel?

3)  The instructions say "Bevel the Bulkheads" before you put them on ship?   I thought the bevel was to achieve Fairness.  How can that be done before putting them on? 

4)  The bulkheads have a center piece that appears to be a cut out, yet some of the builds show that enter piece as not being cut out?

5)  I can't exactly locate the Wale Plank location.   I see it on the plank diagram, but its hard to determine exactly where to place it.  Please advise.

6)  The rigging looks very scary, and I don't see any details on how to install blocks,  details on how to wrap the string, etc.   Maybe that can wait till later.

 

Thanks

Bill aka   Cpt Striker

[Oldsalt1950]

Bill having been "Snake bit" I'll attempt to give you some answers that make sense.

1. I sanded my rabbet. Use a 1/16 thick piece of plank to mark the area along the bottom of the frame to establish where to sand to from the bearding line.

2. Explained in answer 1

3 You can establish a rough bevel by tracing the bevel marking from each frame and sanding to the correct side of the frame the rear of the forward frames the front of the aft frames.

4. Center pieces are left in by some of us to avoid breaking off the deck supports on the 3 forward most frames and frames I-L. 

5. The Wale plank location needs to be established by taking a measurement off the plans.'

6. For the rigging, wait until you are almost there and ask. We can provide you with links and help at that time.

 

Jim

 

[Alex-Ks1]

Hi, its a nice ship, dont be intimidated by the plans, go slow and steady, and YES do ask questions . Lots of experience here at this site

rigging and planking can be very trying on ones patients . put up a log, let people see and you will get a response .

[Oldsalt1950]

Bill, along other lines before you start. Read the build logs and write down where people found issues and had difficulty and what they did to fix it. Each kit is just a bit different in its problems but knowing ahead of time there may be an issue at a certain point makes things go smoother. 

 

Jim

[javajohn]

Welcome to the Rattlesnake club, Bill!

 

Yes, please ask questions - I've made more mistakes than I can count and hopefully I can pass on whatever I've learned. I'm still a beginner in this hobby and agree things can be intimidating. Think of it as a challenge. Everyone here has been extremely helpful and supportive.

 

John

[Kenneth Powell]

Cruise other build logs and ask, ask, ask. This is a great site and members are happy to help.

The rigging looks scary because it's jumbled on one sheet, I'm going through that now.

When the time comes, just go one line at a time. Study the plans and read the manual over and over again.

 

Hope this helps - Kenneth

[ccoyle]

To tack on to what others have said about this kit, one thing that can be said for Model Shipways kits in general is that they don't engage in hand-holding -- they assume that the builder is bringing a certain amount of skill and knowledge to the party. If you don't know how to do a task like strop a block, for example, Model Expo instructions do not usually tell you how to do it; you will need to consult some outside resources, such as books on 18th century rigging practices. Also, Model Shipways kits have far fewer pre-cut parts than other kits; oftentimes, you are given only the requisite wood materials and are expected to take the dimensions off the plans (proportional dividers are handy for this task). Same goes for things like determining the position of the wales, locating scuppers, etc. -- that information is provided in the plans and is not described in any great detail anywhere.

 

If you don't mind my asking, since you are new here and you say this is your first intermediate kit, what kinds of kits have you finished before this one? Don't be fooled by the word "intermediate" on this kit -- that term is relative. It's certainly intermediate compared to tackling an ornately decorated 17th-century ship of the line, but it still has plenty of elements (e.g. guns, three masts, square-rigged) that a modeler may find very challenging, and it is certainly more challenging than other types of models that have less of those elements and are therefore more intermediate-friendly, such as a brigs, cutters, or schooners. Your answer to this question may suggest that a simpler model would be better suited to your current skill level.

 

Kind regards,

[Cpt Striker]

Chris and everyone 

 

thanks for the encouragement. 

 

So I build a few plastic revell clipper ships many years ago, and then my dad and I teamed up on a Morgan Whaling POB ship.   This year , i finished on Artesnia Latina King of the mississippi Paddle steamboat and I was ready for the challenge.  

I do notice that a lot of the logs tend to stop showing details after the hull is planked.   Do you recall any logs that show details for the gun decks and after?

[Oldsalt1950]

Off the top of my head no. There are a couple that show gun deck details and also rigging . Look for the longer logs

 

Jim

[Cpt Striker]

Hey all

 

I just want to double check...if in doubt, the Drawings and plan are "king", correct?   I am laying down the two keel parts, and if I overlay them on plan, they don't line up.  I have to extend the keels to the left and right a small amount, say 1/32 of an inch, in order to get them to align to the plan.  Is that correct? always ( or most of the time) the plan rules? 

 

[Oldsalt1950]

That is correct. It is a known problem. Just shim the two pieces until they align correctly with the plans. 

 

Jim

 

[Cpt Striker]

Hull reinforement

So got the keel underway.    now to Bulkheads in the next week.   I noticed that one of the builds shows "Legos with clips on the Keel" to reinforce and square off the bulkheads.   Another build appeared to use small wooden blocks in between the bulkheads (and left in place I presume? )   

 

So what do you all think is the best way to square and hold the bulkheads true? 

[Oldsalt1950]

For squaring and truing the bulkheads, the Legos and clamps work fine. The wooden blocks between the bulkheads are glued in place to hold the bulkheads firm while fairing the hull.

 

Jim

[Ed Ku20]

Welcome to the Rattlesnake club Bill.  I second and third everything mentioned by the others.  I'm certainly not an expert by any means. This is my second POB build.  But I really try to detail my build process. I was a corporate trainer in a previous life!!  I try to share my mistakes (what not to do) as well as what you ought to do and how I did it.  The modelers on this site, especially these Ratt builders, are a great source for information.  There are a lot of quirky things with this MS kit and we've all worked our way through each of them, like shimming the keel.  Start your own build log, take lots of pics and ask your questions to get feedback. 

Good luck!

Ed

[Cpt Striker]

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly

 

First post of some pictures I took.  Borrowed a lot of ideas from other posts.  Already made a few mistakes, hope to recover.  

The Good.....I am using Playdough to make a mold of the bow filler, and plan to do the same for the stern. 

The Good....I found that using a small round dremel sandpapoer without the drum is great for sanding the bulkhead slots.

The Bad....When usiing clothpins and legos to glue the Builkheads I had a clothpin stick to the builhead.  Broke the bulkhead when taking off bulkhead. 

The Ugly.    I used a dremel to carve out Rabbet line....Didn't get that crisp clean cut line

 

Two Questions:

I don't really understand what the instructions are getting at for the bevel lines.    I intend to just use "Common Sense'  to bevel the bulkheads.  That is, lay a strip down and see how it "fairs?.      Any suggestions to doing this?

After viewing many logs, and watching videos on planking, I'm not sure where to start.  Do I go the Garboard plank first and then work up?   Or the Gun level?.  Go Top then Bottom?   or just follow instructions?

Thanks

[Oldsalt1950]

Bulkhead frame bevels are something that each of us approach a bit differently, as is the keel rabbet. I prefer doing mine by hand and at first did the beveling of the bulkheads frames when I did my fairing. The plans show you the approximate beveling lines and they can be transferred to the bulkheads before assembly a much easier way to do thinks. You have a number of options for how to do this; Transfer the measurements using a set of dividers, trace the lines, make a template. You will eventually find a method that works for you. I've found the best way to do the rabbet is to lightly sand the keel frame then use a piece of Planking of the appropriate thickness to mark the bottom of the keel frame, flip the frame over and mark it again. This is usually a piece of planking 1/16 thick then sand the rabbet bevel to the indicated lines. As far as where to start with your planking once the fairing is done, that too is different for all of us. I like to establish the wale line and start there. I will then fit the garboard plank making sure that the forward/stem end does not rise up above level with the keel. Then you can mark off your planking belts.

 

Jim

[javajohn]

Hi Bill, I really understand the issue with the rabbet line - I've found that when using power hand tools like the Dremel it's too easy to make a mistake. It's tempting to use it to save time, but one little slip and you've ruined a piece. I used my Dremel now only for really coarse work to get close. I used it to get rough shape of the filler pieces.

 

@Dave_E and I had a discussion about the rabbet line and we were both concerned about how thin the connection to the keel would be at 1/32-inch if you carved a full 1/16" deep rabbet. I opted to make it a bit less deep, leaving about 1/16" of the frame to glue to the keel.

 

As far as beveling is concerned, I second what Jim said - find a way that works for you. I made copies of the templates using a laser printer/scanner. I cut the template at the bevel line and used that to mark the bevel on each bulkhead. I didn't bother with the bulkheads that require very little fairing; I just eyeballed it. Once that was done, I used a 1/32 thick strip to check and sand and shim as necessary. I tried to get close to how the belts would lay when I did this. I found that using a proportional divider as a measuring tool worked great for transferring measurements from the plans to the model.

 

Be patient with the fairing the bulkheads - they will require some time to get right and check everywhere using a thin strip. I was not as patient as I should have been and now find that as I'm planking, I still have to do a bit of adjusting of the bulkheads still.

 

John

[Dave_E]

Hi Bill, just got on board with your build. 👍 Don’t be shy asking questions on your log, as most of us Snake builders are all following each other’s build. 😀

[Ed Ku20]

Hi Bill, go real slow with the sanding.  You can always take more off later, but it's a real problem if you overdo it and need to put it back on!  Be careful using the Dremel.  It's a great tool, but will chew off a lot of wood in a hurry if you are not careful.  Everyone tries to do their best to make the model to match the plans, but you have to be quite expert to do this 100%.  You may have to make minor (hopefully) adjustments to work on your version of the ship as you move along.  Also, all of us have broken pieces.  Wood glue and reinforcing with scrap wood is the solution when making repairs.  Look ahead at what others post to make sure you are planning appropriately for a future step, as you are working on something in the present.  There can be bad ripple affects if you don't.  Also, listen to Old Salt (Jim).  He gives good advice! 

 

Regards,
Ed

 

[Cpt Striker]

Thanks to everyone for their help.   Some of the smaller things really slow me down.

1) For the knightheads and timberheads, I can't figure out what size planks to use.   the 1/32 by 3/32 fit into the precut rails, but they seem to flimsy.   I think I need to use the 1/16 x 1/8 and just carve them out a little where they go into the precut rails.  Anyone can tell me what size plant to use?

2)  The diagrams don't show that the precut forecastle railing going all the way over the bow, but the builds show that.  Can you tell me where the two forcastle rails should meet?   

3)  Other things that I can't figure out....such as how long is the bowsprit that comes out of the front ? 

 

THanks , lots more questions to follow

 

 

 

[Cpt Striker]

So does this placement look of the forecastle rail look correct?   Are my builhhead fillers a little too fat?  

[Oldsalt1950]

The rail placement is correct, and your bow fillers need to go on a diet. For the knights head and timber heads, fit them using the 1/32 x 3/32. You can always reenforce them once the rail is fitted. If you look at the mast and rigging diagrams, lay the bow sprit over its corresponding drawing and cut to length, make it a bit long and sand it back to its correct length and angle.

 

Jim

 

[Cpt Striker]

Don't know how I would build this without all of the logs!   I just don't know sailor jargon that well.

 

-I made the mistake of using 1/8 inch wood instead of 1/16 inch wood for the Cannon Framing.  Halfway thru I noticed, but thought it would work.  Problem is, when framing the insides of the Gun Framing, it protrudes.....Sanding time !   I'll get thru it. 

 

-Question:    For the Captions Quarters on the poop deck, I noticed that one of the little bulkhead pieces (that you snap out) is almost a perfect fit for the Cpts Quarters, so I suppose I could frame this out and create doors?   Otherwise, how do you build it? 

-Question:   The little plastic tube has some very fragile plastic pieces (and they already broke on me).  What are those for? 

-Question:   How in the world to you make the hatches out of ?  and the grating?   I see pictures on the logs but how do you make them?

Thanks'

-

[Oldsalt1950]

Cpt Striker You can use the knock out piece from the bulkhead to construct the poop deck bulkhead wall. to make the hatches and gratings you will have a few decisions to make concerning how you want to make them look. Will the corners be mitered ( cut at an angle) or will you notch them? Then you must decide if you will lay the grating pieces flat or will you assemble them fitting the notches together. You will also have to provide some sort of lip inside the hatch coming (Frame) for the grating pieces to rest on. No matter which way you choose to build the hatch frame the frame should be constructed such that it is twice the height of the grating. The pieces of the frame that go athwart ship , that is across the frame from side to side should be contour to match the curvature of the deck on the bottom. I'm not sure what parts you are talking about in the plastic tube as all my parts came in bags a picture would help.

 

Jim