allanyed Posted October 4, 2023 Share #1 Posted October 4, 2023 (edited) What are pedestals A and B? I can see B possibly being a rest for a boom, but if that is the case, how would it be secured to the boat knowing it will not be in place when not under sail. The boat is from 1801 and identified in the description at the top of the plan as a 31 foot longboat. Thanks Allan Edited October 4, 2023 by allanyed mtaylor and iMustBeCrazy 2 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted October 4, 2023 Share #2 Posted October 4, 2023 G'day Allan. This drawing contains a few enigmas doesn't it? 'A' and it's mate/s in the bow look like sockets to me, the top section being drawn in black ink suggests they are near or on the gunwale, either for an awning stanchion or a small swivel gun. THIS would fit nicely. 'B' No idea at the moment but the red ink suggests it's near the centre line. 'C' (just in front of the mast) You didn't ask but it's probably a 'horse' for the jib sheet, Maybe? It would have been nice if the showed A, B and C on both drawings. Other interesting things: Double lifting eyes fore and aft, rollers fore and aft, cant frames fore and aft. mtaylor 1 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share #3 Posted October 4, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: THIS And so you are a trouble maker Craig, 😀 because she is going to kill me when she asks what I would like from Santa this year. The rollers fore and aft are indeed another issue as I have no idea why they are there. You mention C. I have posted below what I believe you are speaking about so others are aware of this item. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks for the input Craig, VERY much appreciated! This is one of the most detailed plans I have seen but it has indeed raised questions, including why double lift rings fore and aft. This was a new one for me. Allan Edited October 4, 2023 by allanyed mtaylor and iMustBeCrazy 2 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted October 4, 2023 Share #4 Posted October 4, 2023 32 minutes ago, allanyed said: Please correct me if I am wrong. I can't correct you as you are correct. allanyed and mtaylor 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce d Posted October 4, 2023 Share #5 Posted October 4, 2023 I'm wondering if the mystery items are for a specific task. I have read of a carpenter preparing a ship's boats used for anchor work or artillery transport and assumed it was fitting the needed items rather than making any permanent modifications. Having fruitlessly spent some time trying to find details of any of these modifications I concluded the shipwrights and carpenters were directed in some way that was not recorded. The one area where I know very specific arrangements were made was in preparing boats for launching Congreve rockets but alas, they do not appear to have survived. FWIW, I will dig out a drawing I found showing the proposed method of outfitting a boat of that period with a slide for mounting an artillery piece. If memory serves it used rollers ... who knows if it fits but we'll see? HTH, Bruce mtaylor 1 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted October 4, 2023 Share #6 Posted October 4, 2023 C is definitely the horse for of the fore sail sheet. The circular arc allows the sail to cross over without releasing the sheet when the boat is tacked; a self tacking sail. A could be a support for a swivel gun, temporarily installed by the carpenter as Bruce has posted. There appears to be another of these near the bow. B is much more problematic, A wild *** guess. I wonder if it is a pump. The Longboat was the ship’s boat with the largest cubic capacity. It was, therefore, favored for hauling the huge quantities of water needed by crews on a high salt diet. As an all wooden boat it would float even if nearly full of water. While this was often carried in barrels, I have seen old seamanship texts where the plug in the boat’s bottom could be removed to allow the boat to fill with fresh water. The water filled Longboat was then towed by the other boats to the ship. The pump would have been used to transfer water to tanks or barrels aboard ship. Rollers, fore and aft. These are for lines used to handle anchors, anchor buoys etc. This gets into discussions of Longboat vs launch. Beaudroit (Sp) says that British anchor handling practices differed from French as the British lifted heavy weights over the bow instead of the stern as the French did. British Longboats, therefore featured full lines forward and fine lines aft. French Longboats had much fuller lines aft and used stern davits. The introduction of the Launch into the RN changed this. Launches had much fuller lines aft that allowed handling of heavy weights over the stern and davits. Roger bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted October 4, 2023 Share #7 Posted October 4, 2023 7 hours ago, bruce d said: I'm wondering if the mystery items are for a specific task. I would think so, but I also think it's a boat built for a specific task rather than modifications. It's too nice a drawing. The bow roller looks like a normal anchor handling roller, the stern roller 'feels' like it serves the same purpose but the drawing provides no details. It's possible not impossible that these could be used together to carry a cannon slung under the hull. Combine that with four swivel guns and we may have something fit to support a landing somewhere. Not impossible but...........fantasy perhaps? 4 hours ago, Roger Pellett said: C is definitely the horse for of the fore sail sheet. The circular arc allows the sail to cross over without releasing the sheet when the boat is tacked; a self tacking sail. Yes, but it's backwards. 4 hours ago, Roger Pellett said: A wild *** guess. I wonder if it is a pump. I don't think so but it's a better guess than any I can propose at this time. mtaylor 1 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share #8 Posted October 5, 2023 8 hours ago, Roger Pellett said: Rollers, fore and aft. These are for lines used to handle anchors, anchor buoys etc. As there is a winch on board, would the aft roller be in lieu of the davit that we often see in contemporary plans? Allan mtaylor and bruce d 2 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted October 5, 2023 Share #9 Posted October 5, 2023 Yes that’s right. mtaylor and allanyed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted October 5, 2023 Share #10 Posted October 5, 2023 Hi Allan, to me 'A' looks a bit like the pedestal for a swivel gun (fitted much like they were in HMB Endeavour). The shape looks octagonal, which is right, and the bulk is fitted behind the bulwark which explains the red. But my concerns for this suggestion are that it appears a little deep (long) but then again could be the support/strength they needed; and, I cannot fully reconcile the item at its head, which is similar to that of 'B', - but perhaps these are intended to represent iron rings/hoops driven on to strengthen the top ends? Just a though and bracing for incoming fire cheers pat allanyed, bruce d and mtaylor 3 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted October 5, 2023 Share #11 Posted October 5, 2023 39 minutes ago, BANYAN said: bracing for incoming fire Only friendly fire. I concur with both thoughts. mtaylor and BANYAN 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted October 5, 2023 Share #12 Posted October 5, 2023 B could also be a removal bitt for towing another vessel. Roger allanyed, BANYAN and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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