GrandpaPhil Posted October 10, 2023 Share #1 Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) Would the rigging plans from the Victory Models HMS Vanguard, an Arrogant Class 74 from the 1780’s, apply to the Bellona from 1760? Edited October 10, 2023 by GrandpaPhil mtaylor 1 Quote Building: 1:64 HMS Revenge (Victory Models plans) 1:64 Cat Esther (17th Century Dutch Merchant Ships) On the building slip: 1:72 French Ironclad Magenta (original shipyard plans) On hold: 1:98 Mantua HMS Victory (kit bash), 1:96 Shipyard HMS Mercury Favorite finished builds: 1:60 Sampang Good Fortune (Amati plans), 1:200 Orel Ironclad Solferino, 1:72 Schooner Hannah (Hahn plans), 1:72 Privateer Prince de Neufchatel (Chapelle plans), Model Shipways Sultana, Heller La Reale, Encore USS Olympia Goal: Become better than I was yesterday "The hardest part is deciding to try." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution allanyed Posted October 10, 2023 Solution Share #2 Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) Depends on whether or not the Victory Models Vanguard plans are correct. You may want to check those plans against contemporary based sources to see if they are accurate. Rigging sizes and configurations did not change a lot from 1719 until 1806 so you can probably use James Lees' Masting and Rigging English Ships of War figures which can also be found here at MSW in the Articles section as done by Danny Vadas for more exact information. Allan Edited October 11, 2023 by allanyed GrandpaPhil, barkeater and mtaylor 3 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted October 11, 2023 Share #3 Posted October 11, 2023 Sorry Allan; but I must disagree (I believe!) I am sure that there were some important changes to rigging in the 1770s; will have to check, though. All the best, Mark allanyed, GrandpaPhil and mtaylor 3 Quote Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans. 2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans. Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research. Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted October 11, 2023 Share #4 Posted October 11, 2023 You should use the Victory Models plans only as a general guideline and check carefully with Lees. The plans are generally good but may have some disputable details. There were also several changes in the rigging from Bellona to Vanguard - e.g. Bellona still had the lateen mizzen yard. The Victory Models plans on the other hand show for example the topmast stays rigged below the associated preventer stays which is quite likely the wrong way around. allanyed, GrandpaPhil and mtaylor 3 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted October 11, 2023 Share #5 Posted October 11, 2023 You may very well be right Mark, thanks for your post. I only did a cursory look at Lees' drawings and mast, spar, and line sizes and I likely missed things. As Flyer stated, best to check everything against a reliable source such as Lees' book. Allan GrandpaPhil and mtaylor 2 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted October 11, 2023 Share #6 Posted October 11, 2023 Good Evening Allan; Not to worry too much, easily done! Lees does mention a 1773 establishment. This certainly made changes to masts, yards and rigging, although I am not sure if this relates to rigging only, or whether anything about scantlings of the ships' timbers was included. All the best, Mark allanyed, mtaylor and GrandpaPhil 3 Quote Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans. 2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans. Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research. Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted October 11, 2023 Share #7 Posted October 11, 2023 Hi Mark, I have the scantlings for the 1719, 1745, and 1750 Establishments for the various timbers. Can you steer me to the scantlings of the 1773 Establishment? MANY thanks! Allan mtaylor 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted October 12, 2023 Share #8 Posted October 12, 2023 Good Morning Allan; I would if I could; my only authority for the changes is a memory that there were some made to rigging setups in the 1770s, based on many previous readings of Lees' book; confirmed just before my last post when I looked through his book again. In his proportional listings at the end of the book, quite a few items change at this date; and at the beginning of the book, he mentions a 1773 establishment, without clarifying it much. This may well have related only to rigging. All the best, Mark allanyed and mtaylor 2 Quote Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans. 2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans. Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research. Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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