rudder chain size 1/72

[Ian B]

OK-confession - so I lost the chain that goes across the rudder on my HMS Vanguard 1/72 whilst moving it to a 'safe' place when the builders arrived-- It came loose so I put it somewhere safe -- so safe i cant find it!!!! 

 

What is the link size do I need to order?  Any suggestions?

[Charter33]

Hi Ian,

The chain provided by Caldercraft for my HMS Victory, which is also 1/72nd scale, has 19 links per inch/25 mm, with each link 2mm long (as close as my old eyes can tell!)

Hope this helps.

Graham. 

[AJohnson]

3 hours ago, Ian B said:

- It came loose so I put it somewhere safe -- so safe i cant find it!!!! 

You do that as well! 🤣

 

I dread to think what treasures are lurking in my “safe place” when I find it!

[allanyed]

3 hours ago, Charter33 said:

The chain provided by Caldercraft for my HMS Victory, which is also 1/72nd scale, has 19 links per inch/25 mm, with each link 2mm long (as close as my old eyes can tell!)

This is a great subject..... what size are chain rudder pendants on various size ships?   They were to prevent loss of the rudder if it became unshipped and needed to be sized to hold onto the rudder and hardware.  I would not rely on Caldercraft having the right size without doing some research. 19 links per inch seems to be almost double the size that could be used.   

 

Assume an oak rudder on a 74 gun ship weighs about 7000 pounds.   3/8" chain can hold about 7000 pounds so with two chains, one port, one starboard attached to the spectacle plate, it can hold double that amount.  3/8" chain links are about 2" long.  At scale these would be .028" long or about 35 links per inch.   I cannot find any specifications so far, so hopefully a member will have sizes from contemporary based sources.  (Walther railroad supplies has chain up to 40 per inch.)

 

Allan

[Keith Black]

FYI, once the navies introduced steam propulsion in the 1850's not only where there preventer chains there were also emergency steering chains going through the hull leading to a capstan where rudder control could be maintained while the ships wheel steering mechanism was repaired. From what I can see in photos of the period the preventer chain and the emergency steering chain were different sizes.

[Ian B]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

This is a great subject..... what size are chain rudder pendants on various size ships?   They were to prevent loss of the rudder if it became unshipped and needed to be sized to hold onto the rudder and hardware.  I would not rely on Caldercraft having the right size without doing some research. 19 links per inch seems to be almost double the size that could be used.   

 

Assume an oak rudder on a 74 gun ship weighs about 7000 pounds.   3/8" chain can hold about 7000 pounds so with two chains, one port, one starboard attached to the spectacle plate, it can hold double that amount.  3/8" chain links are about 2" long.  At scale these would be .028" long or about 35 links per inch.   I cannot find any specifications so far, so hopefully a member will have sizes from contemporary based sources.  (Walther railroad supplies has chain up to 40 per inch.)

 

Allan

Good mathematical way to approach the question...

[Charter33]

Allen is correct, Caldercraft is inaccurate. I couldn't find any definitive information in John McKay's 'Anatomy of the ship' book, Longbridge's 'The Anatomy of Nelson's ships' or any of the other published works I have in my library, so the following is based on personal observation so can only be regarded as a guide for consideration.....

It also assumes that your HMS Vanguard's rudder and that of another vessel of the same scale are reasonably comparable.

Longridge, plate 35, is a good photo of Victory's rudder and the chain in question. Using the thickness of the rudder as an appropriate datum it appears that this is equal to 10 chain links.

Comparing my Victory's rudder to the chain the kit provides shows the model's rudder is equal to 5 links. To be closer to scale accuracy a chain of around 40 links per inch is possibly closer to what it should be.

Graham.

[modeller_masa]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255799832938346.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt

I bought this chain. It has 40 links per inch.

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by modeller_masa

[Ian B]

8 hours ago, Charter33 said:

Hi Ian,

The chain provided by Caldercraft for my HMS Victory, which is also 1/72nd scale, has 19 links per inch/25 mm, with each link 2mm long (as close as my old eyes can tell!)

Hope this helps.

Graham. 

Thanks, I will go with that 😃😃

[Charter33]

Just like you and Andrew, I too suffer from 'safe place' syndrome, but with one unmentioned addition.... once the work is done and lost item has been replaced, the missing part turns up! 🤣

[Ian B]

7 minutes ago, Charter33 said:

Just like you and Andrew, I too suffer from 'safe place' syndrome, but with one unmentioned addition.... once the work is done and lost item has been replaced, the missing part turns up! 🤣

Had that! 🤪

[modeller_masa]

https://www.subchaser.org/model-anchor-chain

 

According to the US Submarine Chaser archive site, this is the the optimal scale of railing anchor chain in the WW I era.

 

1:24 16 LPI (Links per inch)
1:32 21.5 LPI
1:48 32 LPI
1:64 43 LPI

1:74 49 LPI
1:96 64 LPI

 

https://floatingdrydock.com/more.htm#CHAIN

I found this site is selling the 50 LPI chains, but I don't guarantee it because I've never bought anything at the site.

 

https://www.labellemodels.com/chain-p-295.html

https://www.builders-in-scale.com/bis/parts-chain.html

Another 40 LPI chain.

Edited November 17, 2023 by modeller_masa