HMS Diana 1794 by Morgan - Caldercraft - 1:64 - continuation of work started by Shipyard Sid

[Morgan]

Somewhile back ‘Shipyard Sid’, aka Dave, found himself in the position of having to look for someone to take over the build of his HMS Diana for reasons he has already stated on this site elsewhere.  Looking back at the relevant posts I had obviously missed these at the time, however, living only a mile or so away Dave recently asked me if I would like to take on the model.

 

Diana has been on my wish list but wasn’t in my immediate contemplation.  I have my Victory research which I just completed and have undertaken to publish on this site and have also very recently commenced the associated build of the Victory based on Caldercraft’s 1:72 scale kit, alongside the recently released Artesania Latina Cross Section of the same scale as a complementary pair (build log imminent).  I also have a backlog of completing my scratch 1:64 HMS Trincomalee and Chuck’s Winnie also begging for a start as well, so no shortage of projects.  So, what’s one more to add to the collection😊.

 

I must admit that this hobby is getting like the Admiral’s DIY list which out-competes model building for my time, it seems only to get longer the more I do!  But who wants to be bored.  I think I will try to complete this simultaneously with the Victory but may take a few weeks to get up and running – that DIY list is pressing apparently, seems there is some artificial need to have completed certain milestones by Xmas, I have never understood that link, but it may be why DIY stores stock Xmas decorations.  Happy for someone to explain the causal link between the two, but I undertake to wilfully remain sceptical of the whatever wafer-thin explanation someone can dream up!

 

Back to Diana, obviously I have said yes.  It is a shame Dave feels he can’t complete the Diana to the standard he desires, when I picked up the model, I also got to see his Caldercraft Victory he completed some years back and it is a wonderful example to behold, which he should be rightly proud off.

 

I’ve enclosed below some photos of where Dave had got to with the Diana.  As he pointed out to me, there is the need to do some remedial work, primarily to the copper plating, and on a cursory examination some of the gunports also need some attention.

 

Some of the copper plates have come off, and some others are in the process of exfoliating themselves, bearing in mind Dave hasn’t touched tis for at least 2 years.  In terms of the main deck gunports some of these need realigning.

 

I think I will start with the copper plating, remove any damaged and loose plates and those that require some realignment.  Dave fastened these to the ship with Evo Stick, so hopefully a combination of acetone and heat (not at the same time!) should loosen these.  I’ll just see where the process takes me.

 

For the planking I plan on removing all the inner planking and then establishing the high and low points of the all the gunports relative to the deck for the outer planking so as to determine how many strakes are involved in the realignment process.  Hopefully I can just remove the planks within those limits, re-establish the gunport openings and make good the planking.

 

Gary

[ccoyle]

Hope you don't mind I made the meaning of your title a little clearer. Good luck on your project!

[DaveBaxt]

I would like to follow on if I may as I am only just slightly ahead of you in building the Diana but work quite slowly.  I would be especially interested to know how you make the hole for the bowsprit with the stem in place. Good luck with this project and I look forward to your progress. Best Regards Dave

[allanyed]

13 hours ago, Morgan said:

Some of the copper plates have come off, and some others are in the process of exfoliating themselves,

Hi Gary,

Have you considered just removing all of them and using more realistic copper plates that properly indicate small nail indents on overlapping plates that would be present versus giant rivet heads on plates butted to each other that were never used?   In your wonderful research of Victory, did you find drawings, specs, or photos of the plating?  It would be interesting to see.

Allan

[Morgan]

23 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Hi Gary,

Have you considered just removing all of them and using more realistic copper plates that properly indicate small nail indents on overlapping plates that would be present versus giant rivet heads on plates butted to each other that were never used?   In your wonderful research of Victory, did you find drawings, specs, or photos of the plating?  It would be interesting to see.

Allan

Hi Allan,

 

There is very little on copper plating, obviously sizes and plate gauge are known, but as to lay-patterns, nothing unfortunately.

 

I agree on the scale issue of copper plates, I am going to experiment with the new AL plate parking tool, but getting the representation right will be difficult. Just getting the overlap of plates at scale without creating an obvious clunky series of ridges is almost impossible, the plates would have to be as thin as tissue paper.

 

There are plenty of photos to draw from, I have many from the Victory and Trincomalee so do have the visual template, simulating it 🤔

 

Gary

 

[Morgan]

6 hours ago, DaveBaxt said:

I would like to follow on if I may as I am only just slightly ahead of you in building the Diana but work quite slowly.  I would be especially interested to know how you make the hole for the bowsprit with the stem in place. Good luck with this project and I look forward to your progress. Best Regards Dave

Thanks Dave,

 

I’ll be going backwards before going forwards first, but with some planning and forethought I should get her moving in the right direction.

 

Gary

[allanyed]

Hi Gary,

Regarding the overlap, I agree with you.  I have seen some plating lately that shows the dimples on one long edge and one short edge so when butted together they have the appearance of an overlap.   Much more realistic looking than the riveted plates to be sure.   At less than 1:48 it MIGHT be best to leave off any sign of the nails.  From what I could find they were 1/4" diameter nails, thus a head of about 1/2" so even at 1:64 the indents would only be about 7 thousandths diameter.   

Allan

[Morgan]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi Gary,

Regarding the overlap, I agree with you.  I have seen some plating lately that shows the dimples on one long edge and one short edge so when butted together they have the appearance of an overlap.   Much more realistic looking than the riveted plates to be sure.   At less than 1:48 it MIGHT be best to leave off any sign of the nails.  From what I could find they were 1/4" diameter nails, thus a head of about 1/2" so even at 1:64 the indents would only be about 7 thousandths diameter.   

Allan

Hi Allan,

 

I’ve also seen the single edge approach and agree it looks good.  Artesania Latina market two PE rivet tools, I’m thinking one of these could be modified to produce a single edge pattern, their multi wheel approach also allows for the infill nails to be simulated, the rivet points on the inner and outer wheels are at separate pitches allowing the different nail patterns to be produced. I may need to buy 2 to get the number wheels I would need, but I’ll see.  Photos below.

 

I’ve also trialed using heat to de-bond both copper plates and planking, and initial trials are good, which is a positive for future modifications.

 

Gary

 

 

[allanyed]

Gary,

I am guessing one end wheel could be removed or maybe ground down to eliminate it. Is it adustable?  According to Goodwin the plates were sized as shown below so maybe this device is not a good idea for some scales.  You may find the photo below useful as well.

Allan

Edited November 19, 2023 by allanyed

[Morgan]

If you account for the overlap the effective plate size is 46.5” x 13.5”, at a scale of 1:72 and converting to metric then 16.4mm x 4.8mm, so the 16 x 5 AL version works, so I can use this on my Victory build, but for 1:64 scale, as for Diana, then 18.5mm x 5.4mm is required, however, if you use standard copper tape widths then using 5mm and 6mm respectively would probably work.  All near enough, and as you say, tweaking the spacers would probably be near enough at these scales as the width is important not the length.

 

Gary

Edited November 19, 2023 by Morgan

[Morgan]

 

The removal of the copper plates has continued, leaving the glue residue to clean up.  The heat from the removal process has left the glue residue brittle, making sanding removal fairly easy.

The exposed hull leaves a couple of areas to address, also, the keel needs squaring off, it has lost its profile, I’ll add a false keel and fill up to this line and sand it back.  The re-coppering will hide this.  More of a problem is an area of planking that falls short of the sternpost under the counter, for now this is filled and sanded, but I have to address a more permanent solution.  One possibility is to paint the hull below the Wales.

 

As identified earlier the gunports needed realignment.  The only way to do this is to remove them, but this necessitated removal of all internal and external planking down to deck level, so another case of moving backwards before continuing. 

 

The removal of the planking inevitability damaged some more of the upper extensions frames of the bulkheads.  However, having stripped the hull back I can now been able to move forward with reconstruction.

 

I have put in place some gunport framing and ‘splints’ to support the original structure and re-establish the profile ready for re-planking.  None of this will be visible and is only to hang the planking on and for lining the gunports.  It necessarily has to fit in with and between what is in place, which means it fits where it touches, but ‘pretty’ isn’t a consideration.  There is some more fettling and levelling required.  To aid this the lower plank of the inner bulwarks have been cut to the same height as the sills of the gunport frames, this is not yet glued in place as this will allow each port to be aligned / squared prior to fixing down.

 

When positioning the inner bulwark lower plank the longitudinal ripple along the deck is obvious, but once a waterway is fixed this will obscure it, it won’t affect the cannon placement as it is limited to the outside of the deck, and most will be obscured by the weather decks.  It seems that where the deck is not supported by the transverse bulkheads there is a tendency in places to have sunk, but no matter, onwards and upwards.

Gary

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Morgan