USS Constitution by The Bitter End - Model Shipways - 1:76

[JSGerson]

All I can say is IMPRESSIVE!

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

Wow! talk about a labor intensive process..

 

In the end, it all comes down to the results. And yours are spectacular.

[The Bitter End]

Thank you to everyone for your kind comments. It really helps with motivation to keep struggling along.

 

T.B.E.

[The Bitter End]

Hello everyone

 

I have decided to attempt to make the cannon for this build myself(emphasis on attempt, this is very much theoretical at this point.

 

I wanted to go with the configuration mentioned in "close up" by Tyrone G. Martin which was kindly pointed out to me by @Marcus.K.. The cannon found on the gun deck of the Constitution in 1797 appear to have been 30 x 24 pounders with a barrel length of 8ft. Apparently these were 1ft shorter than the standard length for this calibre. The cannon were made by Hope forge and an original pair can be seen outside the buildings of Savannah college of art and design

 

 

Below is the basic drawing I used as reference along with excellent measurements provided by Marcus, I will not publish his drawing here until I get his permission but it was a real help in making this first version.

 

 

I began by cutting square stock of 10mm x 10mm from a leftover stump and turned it down to 8mm on the lathe. I then marked out the relevant lines dividing the sections and cut the tapers first and then refined by hand. This process was by no means perfect. I am using a unimat that a friend recently gave me, i have no experience on a lathe and my lathe belt broke. In the process I broke off the cascabel and had to remake it separately. I also had a fair amount of trouble creating a finish that was acceptable but I can live with this as it will be cast in resin anyway.

 

 

 

This cannon still needs its cross braces, eagle emblem and fuse protrusion but if anyone has any views on how it can be improved before I take those steps please let me know. this is my first attempt so I can imagine I will get away without a remake. I do feel the reinforcement protrusions may be a little to pronounced but I cant decide if this will be a pro or a con once painted black.

 

Haiko

 

[JSGerson]

Considering you said you had no experience with a lathe, was working with a piece of equipment you knew basically nothing about, and it broke, you managed to produce a gun barrel that looks spot on to your drawing as well as the one seen outside the buildings of Savannah College of Art and Design. Well done!!! Knowing nothing about casting, I look forward as to how you create a mold so that you can cast numerous copies of the barrel.

 

Jon

[Marcus.K.]

Excellent work, Haiko.

 

But I have to state: I did find those Savannah guns only due to @Force9´s research.

HERE he gave his hints - I just followed his steps 😄 

 

Concerning the short length of those early 24 pounder guns we know from James Fenimore Cooper´s 1853 "History of the United States Navy" about the events of the July 1812 "Great Chase one of the negative effects of those very short barrels:

Quote

 At  seven  minutes  before  two,  the  Belvidera, then  the  nearest  ship,  began  to  fire  with  her  bow  guns,  and  the  Constitution opened  with  her  stern  chasers.  On  board  the  latter  ship, however,  it  was  soon  found  to  be  dangerous  to  use  the  main-deck guns,  the  transoms  having  so  much  rake,  the  window  being  so  high, and  the  guns  so  short,  that  every  explosion  lifted  the  upper  deck,  and threatened  to  blowout  the  stern  frame.  Perceiving,  moreover,  that his  shot  did  little  or  no  execution.  Captain  Hull  ordered  the  firing  to

cease  at  half  past  2. stern  frame,  in  order  to make  room.

Its clear: the combination of a big rake, high windows and short gun barrels would allow the air pressure at the gun when fired to affect the ceiling of the after cabin. Another effect reported in Tyrone Martins "a most fortunate ship" was that the gun smoke was filling the gun deck with thick haze that it made further operations with guns very tricky.

 

 

 

Edited February 24 by Marcus.K.

[The Bitter End]

On 2/24/2025 at 9:38 PM, JSGerson said:

Considering you said you had no experience with a lathe, was working with a piece of equipment you knew basically nothing about, and it broke, you managed to produce a gun barrel that looks spot on to your drawing as well as the one seen outside the buildings of Savannah College of Art and Design. Well done!!! Knowing nothing about casting, I look forward as to how you create a mold so that you can cast numerous copies of the barrel.

 

Jon

Good Morning Jon

 

Thank you for your really positive feedback. I am really enjoying the process of learning what to do and not do(it turns out that patience is a virtue)

 

I have started tinkering with the casting process and I can tell you so far I have established that the path to successful casting is narrow and full of twists and turn. I really hope I can get it figured out, I think it has potential to really help produce high quality cheap components.

 

I will report back as soon as I have it figured out...hopefully

 

Cheers

 

Haiko

[The Bitter End]

On 2/24/2025 at 11:00 PM, Marcus.K. said:

Excellent work, Haiko.

 

But I have to state: I did find those Savannah guns only due to @Force9´s research.

HERE he gave his hints - I just followed his steps 😄 

 

Concerning the short length of those early 24 pounder guns we know from James Fenimore Cooper´s 1853 "History of the United States Navy" about the events of the July 1812 "Great Chase one of the negative effects of those very short barrels:

Its clear: the combination of a big rake, high windows and short gun barrels would allow the air pressure at the gun when fired to affect the ceiling of the after cabin. Another effect reported in Tyrone Martins "a most fortunate ship" was that the gun smoke was filling the gun deck with thick haze that it made further operations with guns very tricky.

 

 

 

Thanks for this info Marcus

 

Its crazy to think that this little difference in barrel length(1foot?) created such significant issues.

 

one thing which does however confuse me is this(extracted from Tyrone Martins Close up)....

 

 

I read this as to say that the 24 pounders had already been replaced by 1808, hopefully resolving the very short barrel issue. any ideas?

 

Cheers

 

Haiko

[Marcus.K.]

Oh, that's interesting. 😲 I did not notice this lines. I need to check my notes !! 🤔 Seems I did Fall over the same step, I so often complain about at others! The bias of interpretation without real checks.. Just because an idea fits to the total picture does not necessarily mean it WAS like that! 🫣

 

But: it won't affect your casting process and my intended reconstruction as both point on well before 1807 ... puh! 🤪

Edited February 28 by Marcus.K.

[The Bitter End]

Hello Again

 

This post is a strange combination of attention to detail and complete abandonment thereof.

 

I Realised that the next step I needed to take would be to establish heights of the gun ports for the gun deck so that I could begin framing them. This required creation of cannon(see previous post) and carriages. The cannon are currently on hold as I am waiting for resin/putty to try and duplicate my sample cannon. So I began on the carriages with a specific focus on those dimensions which would influence the way in which the cannon projected from the gun ports. I decided to use this as yet another exercise in practice for the gun carriages which will ultimately be visible on the spar deck. This process has taught me a lot and I think the results of the visible carriages will be far better.

 

This process was surprisingly simple once I had made a decision on design. There seems to be fairly little information out there on exactly how these 24 bounder carriages looked in 1797 so I settled for a design from the 1768 book “A treatise of Artillery” by John Muller(pages 95,96 and 164). I was pointed to this by a masters thesis on the subject of gun carriages by Katrina Bunyard which I have attached to this post. Please note her summary of the document by muller(page 37) has some minor mistakes which is why I ended up referring to the original . It is worth noting that the Muller guideline has some flaws and there was some variation as can be expected. 

  

I have attached a spreadsheet which can be used to calculate cannon carriage sizes according to the Muller measurements if anyone is interested. I also added a Imperial to metric converter to assist with the calculations. (only edit the red cells if you ever make use of this or the formulae will disappear.)

Using the dimensions for the short barrel 24 pounder gun I calculated the dimensions for this gun and assembled accordingly. I chose to leave off the truck and simply calculate the height of the carriage as if the trucks were there. I also gave it a solid base as this would certainly not be visible and I omitted the curve at the lower part of the side plates. I also made a mistake with the forward transom and put it too far forward(it is meant to be directly above the forward axletree. I only realised this once I had assembled all 30 carriages and decided to draw a line on the madness and left it as is. ..i would like to add that basswood is appalling to work with at this scale as it is continuously creating fluff which has to be addressed. I did this with a combination of sandpaper and passing the carriages over a candle flame to burn off these fibers.

 

I have yet again failed to create a proper database of photos on this but I began by cutting a series of stock from the basswood supplied in the kit. This consisted of the following

 

30 bases – 12.7mm x 2.5mm flat stock – cut 20mm long

30 front trucks – 4.15mm x 4.15mm square stock – cut 11mm long

30 rear trucks – 3.5mm x 3.5mm square stock – cut 11mm long

60 Side piece plank 1 – 1.5mm x 3mm flat stock – cut 20mm long

60 Side piece plank 2 – 1 mm x 2.4mm flat stock – cut 18mm long

60 Side piece plank 3 – 1 mm x 2.4mm flat stock – cut 16mm long

60 Side piece plank 4 – 1 mm x 2.4mm flat stock – cut 14mm long

60 Side piece plank 5 – 1 mm x 2.4mm flat stock – cut 12mm long

30 Transom pieces – 2mm x 5.9mm – cut 5 mm long

 

Beginning with the base I cut a template with the correct width for the front and rear of the carriage and transferred this to the base piece.

 I then placed the first 2 side pieces which cover the whole length of the base by aligning them with the marks I had made using the template and installed the transom.

 Once this glue has set I marked the correct height of the transom and sanded each one back to match this measurement.

Next was to sand back the rear of the carriage and square it off neatly until it was just slightly over the final length(19.5mm)

I then stacked the side pieces from largest to smallest stepping the side pieces correctly at intervals of at the rear of the carriage and allowed the front edges to hang over for future squaring off

I then installed the front and rear trucks

 

I then sanded the front face to bring the carriage back to final length and neaten off the front face(19mm) and sanded the sides to bring the side plates down to 1.82mm(in theory) and take away the excess material from the base.

 

Next was to make the recesses for the trunnions and shape them out with a round file. 

 

I then burnt all the fibres off with a candle and spraypainted them with a black basecoat. At this point I realised that my trunnion recesses were very poorly aligned and redid the upper plank of the carriage to create a slightly better result.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The last step will be to paint the carriages.

 

I am torn between the options of Spanish brown(a far more brownish red) and Lead red. I realise this will barely be visible but I would like to start my search for the correct tone in the right direction .

All the research I have done indicates to me that the most likely colour was indeed a red colour of sorts but the shade is the issue. Tyron Martin refers simply to “Red” in his discussions on the matter(at least that which I can find) and there is some reference to Spanish  brown in the ships manifests and my understanding is that budget was key in these things and Spanish brown was cheap. There does however seem to be contemporary evidence in models and paintings that a brighter red was used and I assume the constitution restoration was done with historical accuracy in mind.

In my mind have narrowed it down to the Spanish brown shown of this George Washington era building.....

and the red of the carriages as shown on the constitution today. 

If anyone has any suggestions on what colour or shade might be most appropriate please let me know. I am sort of thinking I will go for a Red with a brown undertone but any suggestions would be swell!

 

As always criticism and feedback is most welcome

 

Cheers

 

TBE

 

Cannon Carriage Calculator.xlsx

[JSGerson]

Excellent research on the gun carriages to obtain authenticity for your model.

 

Quote

i would like to add that basswood is appalling to work with at this scale as it is continuously creating fluff which has to be addressed. I did this with a combination of sandpaper and passing the carriages over a candle flame to burn off these fibers.

It is for the reasons you encountered in the your quote above that use the hardwood, boxwood, for any wood component that requires precise edges. It may be a bit more expensive and not as readily available in hobby shops (but certainty available on-line), but is well worth it. If you have read my log closely, I indicated when and why I switched woods. Typically, if the wood is to be unpainted, stained, or I need those sharp edges even if painted, I'll use boxwood. In my Rattlesnake model, I used different color woods in lieu of paint (except for black. Ebony was called for but did I used paint for reasons of availability, health (saw dust not healthy), and resistance to bending).

 

Jon

[Marcus.K.]

Hey TBE ,

 

great progress! I fully agree to your point of view: nobody will really see them - maybe with the exception of those close to the waist of the ship were one maybe may see something below in the main hatch .. Hard to tell. If I look at my old 1/96 Revell-model one really has to try hard to see the guns below that boats stored there. Of course your scale is a bit wider .. but ..

 

When I do research for Old Ironsides my very first view is into Tyrone Martins "Close up" - and today I finally found some time to do so for this questions:

 

The only mentioning of something with color are mentioned for the very first years like this:

• 13 Oct. 1799 -- "blackening the guns" .. Ships log,
• Jun 1802   -- Gun carriage trucks had iron rims ... Receipt to Jon Taley, 13 Jun 1802, Samuel Brown Papers
• 14 Sep 1803 -- "..scraping the gun trucks/axlestress and Black leading them..." Ships log
• Jan 1804 -- painting gun carriage ring botls and leading blocks .. ships log

and for

• Oct. 1804 -- "...repainting Quarterdeck Guns, they are now painted in light yellow in order to correspond with the patinwork of the quarterdeck.." ... Naval Documents relating to Barbary Wars

 

Also later there is often mentioned ".. scrap´d the gun carriages and put black lead on them " .. or ".. blacking .. main deck guns" .. or "balking long guns" .. "blacking carronades" ..

 

But - as far as I understand this - this may not refer to the color of the wooden carriages - than to the barrel itself. And the "blackening with black lead" may refer to graphite - and in that case was not used to protect the surface but to make sure axcle and the seat of the trunnions.

Black lead may refer to something like graphite .. as black lead - plumpum nigrum - was the name of that:

 

In Samuel Frederick Gray, A Supplement to the Pharmacopoeia (1821) black lead is described as Plumbum Nigrum - which seems to be the former name of graphite - although the text specifies is at iron and charcoal..

So I guess "black" is not the right color - and the only color mentioned in Martin´s list is the light yellow - to match the 1804 quarterdeck.

 

I did not find any other hint for colors of the carriage.

 

But: there are lists of colors delivered to the ship:

• Aug 1803 -- Paint pigments in ship's stores included 305# black, 3 cwt white lead, 3 cwt yellow, 50# green ("verdigris"), and 28# red ("vermilion"). [Receipt for John Osborn, 1 Aug 1803, Samuel Brown Papers, MHS.]

and later:

• 11 Jan 1804 -- Received 15 kegs of yellow ochre, 2 of red paint, 7 small ones of black paint, and 50 gallons of black varnish. [Ship's log, DNA.]

 

the August 1803 list indicates that the ship got "3 cwt yellow". A cwt is an old unit - C for the latin word "centrum" for 100. "hundredweight" is in the US the equivalent to 100 pounds. If the description would be meant in british units (I am not sure if the young US did already used their specific units - I remember some very interesting articles about this in Wikipedia!) .. well, if it were british, its even more: 1 cwt in Britain would be 112 lbs .

 

For us that means: the ship had at least 300 lbs yellow, and 28 pounds of red ("vermilion" - which was a bright and very expensive red - not to be mixed with the cheap "swedish red" which is also known as "Red Iron Oxide".

 

The Jan 1804 list talks about 15 kegs of yellow ochre and only 2 of red paint. A "keg" seems to be a barrel of about 30 - 40 pound ..15 kegs would then be about 450 - 600 pounds of yellow ochre. While red is again in a very small amount available. 2 kegs = 30 - 80 pound.

 

BUT: in Martins Oct. 1804 quote we learn that from NOW on the carriages match the quarterdeck in being yellow..

 

So if we look for those colors - and take that 2 days delivery as an indicator of the likely use of paint for carriages, we might notice: 

1. vermillion red is not very likely

2. yellow, or ochre yellow is possible - and was used at least in 1804 - but obvously something else was common before Oct. 1804.

3. green ("verdigris") was the chosen color in 1812 for the features on spar deck - as we can see in the Isaac Hull model.

4. black was available in suffcient manner

5. red - not vermillion - but maybe such a spanish brown  - which the following paintings also would "allow" ...

 

This painting by Alonzo Chapelle (done in 1862) shows Stephan Decture - most likely on board of USS United States - although the rounded rail in the background seems to hint on USS Constitution - still the shape does not fit. The gun carriage seems to be black ?

 

I looked for others - but the color is always hard to tell:

Isaac Hull patinted in 1815 for his 1812 victory .. is that a black capstan?

Baindbridge seems to be beside a yellow, ochre or brownish carronade carriage ..

 

And of course: the painters did most likely not really care for the PERFECT color of those details. They may just been "typical" paintings for them in those days.

There still was no "standard" - and most likely the captains may have used whatever was available and cheap.

 

My personal favorite today: black, [Edit with a day of reflection:] changed my mind: a red color seems to be likely - as red ochre was a typical choice - and what´s more interesting: even when Old Irionsides had her greenish bulwarks and deck details: her gun carriages seem to have been red [end edit]

or.. if you like - this brownish spanish "red" - at least either a very dark faint color - or an ochre or yellow color - which most likely also is a bit obscure and not very bright and clear. Your spanish brown is a perfect match in this regard .. but I fear: right now we just can guess!

Edited Friday at 01:11 PM by Marcus.K.

[Marcus.K.]

I changed my mind: after checking on the Isaac Hull model of 1812 - in which the deck components were done in this special green already - the carriages seem still to be in red. A very dark, dull and faint red (maybe due to the age of that color).. but clearly a red.

Still .. its all just guessing.. right?

I was checking on other forums - the only discussion about red I found here - click me