Mary Rose by djford - Caldercraft - 1:80

[djford]

On 12/6/2024 at 5:56 PM, Baker said:

The strakes normally follow the lines of the planks and seal the seams between two planks

 

Well today I learned - and that's annoying, because the Caldercraft instructions have them as I've placed them on the hull. I should have looked this up first!

 

On 12/6/2024 at 5:56 PM, Baker said:

Here indeed there was no clinker planking, but removable shields.

I woke up this morning and decided it would always annoy me if I didn't change this. I've already ripped some of these off and I've started on the planking of a similar area on the forecastle - I'll update soon with my new version.

 

Thanks for the reply!

[Baker]

I can send you more info and drawings via pm about these shields.
But then you have to wait a bit, Baker is on vacation

[djford]

On 12/8/2024 at 9:27 PM, Baker said:

I can send you more info and drawings via pm about these shields.

I'd be interested in your research - though I've already added in my interpretation of the drawings I have for my model 😉 I hope your vacation is going well!

 

Here's today's update. After taking off the clinker over the gunport holes, I turned my attention fully to the forecastle this week.

Well, sort of fully - here's my 3D-printed bronze cannon, now painted bronze.

I'm very happy with how these have turned out. For the paint I used Army Painter Weapon Bronze, followed by a wash of Citadel Nuln Oil and a drybrush of both Weapon Bronze and Citadel Leadbelcher. I was tempted to add a little verdigris with some weathering powders I have, but I think that might be taking  it a little too far!

 

Here's two of them in place:

 

So. Forecastle.

In a previous post I mentioned that I was unsure about how to deal with the delta-shaped top of the lowest deck of the castle where it meets the second deck. In the end, I simply planked over it. This looks similar to some of the reference images I'm using, and I'm pleased with how these planks have fit together.

You can see here the offset hole I've cut for the bowsprit and the slight divot I've taken from the front supporting post to accomodate it as well.

 

And here's my solution for the pavisade gunports - I'll be replicating this on the sterncastle as well, though slightly differently as the ports are spaced slightly closer together there.

In McElvogue's book he has a lovely illustration of how these would have fit together, and I loosely copied that. The ports need a bit of cleanup in this photo, but they're far better representations of the various media than what I'd done before. Also in this photo note the white band across the middle where I'll be painting the yellow and red stripes depicted in the Anthony Roll. I used white painter's gesso for this as it's designed for use on wood and provides a very solid base coat - another layer still required.

 

For the top layer of ports I've created a similar pattern, but as these are smaller in the various sources I have I resorted to a bit of improvisation. Later on I filed out a little groove in the top of each port to create the same 'dimpled' shape as the lower ones.

 

Here's a couple photos of it in situ:

 

You can also see a sneak peek at my sterncastle progress - I stuck in the four cannon and have begun the pavisade gunports there too, but I'll update that properly in the next post. I'm happy with how the forecastle looks here, and though I am a little concerned about the height I think it does match the historical sources quite well.

 

Now onto the main issue that's caused me consternation over the last few days. First, let's look at the Anthony Roll's depiction of the forecastle:

 

And then here is McElvogue's drawing of it:

 

And Marsden's:

 

So my questions were mostly around the top 'cabin' and the two 'prows' that extend over the top deck and the cabin's roof. In McElvogue's work they're extremely pronounced, whilst in Marsden's they're nonexistent. I can't believe that Anthony Anthony would have added the slight curve forward in his illustration if it wasn't there, but it certainly doesn't feel like a sharp point is what we're working with here.

 

Additionally, both of the archaeologists have omitted any kind of railing on their top deck here, implying that there was no access to this point on the ship, and yet to manage the masts there must have been a need to climb up here. Certainly health and safety wasn't what it is today, but I'd be surprised if there was nothing at all, especially when looking at the Embarkation painting, which definitely has a pavisade-style railing, much like in the waist of the Mary Rose:

 

Here's my creation with the bowsprit in place against one of Marsden's drawings:

As you can see, the bowsprit on mine is at a much steeper angle - I could change this still, but it does appear to have been steeper based on the various historical sources, and McElvogue's book has it at around a 40 degree pitch.

 

For the prow, I initially experimented with creating something similar to McElvogue's work, bending a plank to meet a very pointed 'stempost' at the tip of the castle:

I think that if I'd got this to work, it would have looked quite nice, but after a lot of struggling I just couldn't make the planks sit right, and it didn't feel like the Anthony Roll's depiction at all.

 

I moved on to a slightly less prominent 'prow' (forgive me, I have no idea what this point should be called).

And this is what I've decided to go with - it still expands the top 10mm or so of the castle without creating a major headache of plank bending, and looks a lot more like the Embarkation painting.

 

Here's a view of the inside:

The two planks here raise the height around 10mm above the deck - that's just over 1 metre to scale. My plan is to have this as the railing of the top deck, and build up the cabin at the back of this structure.

 

So that's what I did:

Here's the cabin, with three supports to estimate a good height. This is 20mm above the railing planks, which I intend to lower slightly. You can see that I've planked over these with a very thin sapelli veneer; this will be the base for another strip of white gesso before I paint on the stripes.

 

And some walls on the cabin:

I again used some of the precut boards from the Caldercraft kit for this - I believe that these would have been part of the original forecastle, so it's nearly accurate 😉 I'll put in some more interesting planking around these once I'm happy with the basic structure.

 

And here it is on the ship:

 

And from the front:

 

I'm sure that this is deviating wildly from known historical evidence at this point, but ultimately it is a model, my first semi-scratch build - and I'm pretty damn pleased with how this has come out.

 

Do let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Old Collingwood]

Excllent work,  I still  remember the  day when she was lifted in the Solent -  what  an event  on the tv.

 

OC.

[Louie da fly]

On 12/13/2024 at 5:33 AM, djford said:

the two 'prows' that extend over the top deck and the cabin's roof. In McElvogue's work they're extremely pronounced, whilst in Marsden's they're nonexistent.

Keep in mind that these reconstruction drawings are modern interpretations, and I for one can't see any evidence to justify these 'prows'. I like your way of doing it far better.

 

I think the angle of the bowsprit looks far closer to the Anthony Roll depiction than those of the two modern reconstructions. So go with it.

 

The height of the bulwark above the deck - one metre - is what is specified here in Oz for any structure such as a railing on a raised floor/balcony etc. So I think you're on the money there.

 

The triangular 'cabin' surprised me a bit. I would have thought the Anthony Roll shows the walls parallel to the sides of the forecastle. But this is very open to interpretation, and I'm by no means going to say you're wrong in doing it this way.

 

Overall, I'm gobsmacked. You're doing a beautiful job!

 

Steven

[djford]

10 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

The triangular 'cabin' surprised me a bit. I would have thought the Anthony Roll shows the walls parallel to the sides of the forecastle. But this is very open to interpretation, and I'm by no means going to say you're wrong in doing it this way.

Yes, I'm not entirely sure about it, but I think I'm happy with how it looks. If it doesn't work out it's only the top deck to rip off later 😉

 

That said, if you look at the Anthony Roll there are three obvious flags on the very top of the forecastle, and so I was going with the assumption they were on each point of the triangle. There's one more flag on the forward tip of the forecastle itself. We'll see!

 

10 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Overall, I'm gobsmacked. You're doing a beautiful job!

Thank you very much, that means a lot!

[Louie da fly]

5 hours ago, djford said:

there are three obvious flags on the very top of the forecastle, and so I was going with the assumption they were on each point of the triangle.

Interesting thought. To me it looks as if the two at far left and far right are level with each other, both at the front corner of the 'cabin', and the rear one is at the back corner (starboard), but that leaves the question 'where's the one for the port back corner?' Or it could just be that he bunged flags wherever he could fit them. I dunno. Up to you, mate, whatever you feel is right. It's your model, after all.

 

Best wishes,

 

Steven

[Baker]

Indeed, a very intriguing view of the upper part of the fore castle 🤔

[djford]

On 12/14/2024 at 10:11 PM, Louie da fly said:

Interesting thought. To me it looks as if the two at far left and far right are level with each other, both at the front corner of the 'cabin', and the rear one is at the back corner (starboard), but that leaves the question 'where's the one for the port back corner?'

 

On 12/15/2024 at 7:32 AM, Baker said:

Indeed, a very intriguing view of the upper part of the fore castle 🤔

 

I ended up agreeing with both of you on this. Back to the drawing board; see below!

 

First of all, I carried on with my initial construction of the forecastle. Where we left off was pretty close to done, but I finished off with the roof of the cabin and the beams that run vertically up the aft side:

In the Anthony Roll these are extremely curved - I toned that down somewhat, but I did add a little curvature in. It's possible these would have been completely straight.

 

On with the masking tape! This was a time-consuming process, but worth it in the end. Here you see the first layer of gesso on:

 

And here's the stripes!

Pretty happy with this - a few messy bits that I'll clean up later, once the sterncastle is painted.

 

Another view from the front:

 

And now time to rip off that top cabin. I wasn't happy with it, and especially after the feedback from my last post I knew it would never be right to me.

 

Luckily I'd not actually attached it very strongly, and some careful prodding with a hobby saw later...

 

My original front post for the triangular cabin was around 5mm thick, and after some even more careful application of the saw, I had these:

Which had mostly survived unscathed!

 

The original Caldercraft kit had a little archway for the front of the forecastle. I figured I might as well use it here, and created this:

 

And a side view:

I'm much happier with this shape, and I think it works well with the rest of the structure. This means the forecastle is mostly completed, other than the entire aft wall. I still need to decide whether to include the Tudor rose 'figurehead' that was apparently affixed to the tip of the upper deck.

 

Now I've not just been working on the forecastle - if you recall from a previous post I wasn't happy with the clinker planking I'd done over the portholes, so I took those off. Here's what I replaced that with:

I believe that this is much more in line with the 'original', as far as we know. It's also in a similar style to what I've done on the forecastle, so I'm much more satisfied with it.

 

You can also see I've started building up the walls above - these are just thin sheets of plywood as a basis for the coming construction.

 

Here's the poop deck dry fit to check the height:

 

And a full side view:

 

And since then, I've actually made huge progress, adding in the middle deck:

Note I'm not planking the two internal decks; they'll be practically invisible through the tiny portholes, and I'm running a little low on the tanganyika planks I've used for the rest of the decking, so it seems sensible to not waste the wood here. Each of these decks will have two cannon fore and aft, but as you can see in this photo there's little visibility around the barrels anyway. I'll probably not spend too much effort making the carriages perfect either for this reason.

 

There are thirteen portholes on the next level up, separated by distinct uprights. I managed to get exactly thirteen with a pattern using the various scrap pieces the build has generated thus far, which I'm quite pleased with. I'll be rounding out the top of each porthole later down the line. The strips of sapelli veneer will be painted over with gesso and then stripes.

 

And here's the top deck in place, with masts all test fit just because I could:

 

A view from the other side:

 

My plan is to put a small railing around the top of the sterncastle as well, which will give me space for the top line of stripes. In between this and the previous line is a strange pattern of cross hatching - I'm not entirely sure what to do here, so any input would be very appreciated.

 

A couple final details before I sign off - the top of the forecastle planked:

 

And a full view of the sterncastle's port side:

You can also see I've started planking the poop deck here. Once the railing is in place my next task will be working out how on earth to get 1:80 scale boarding netting to look good. Any suggestions?!

 

That's all for now - I've packed up for Christmas as we've got lots of family round and the dining table was required. Thanks for reading, and happy holidays to all!

[Baker]

Nice work. 

The new shape of the fore castle is indeed much better.

 

[Louie da fly]

That's all looking very good, Doug.

 

On 12/25/2024 at 3:10 AM, djford said:

And here's the stripes!

I like the paintwork, very neat. And you have the narrow white stripe between the red and the yellow. Very nice.

 

On 12/25/2024 at 3:10 AM, djford said:

The original Caldercraft kit had a little archway for the front of the forecastle. I figured I might as well use it here, and created this:

That works nicely. Arches seem to have been a bit of thing at this time, so I think you've got a pretty good justification for it.

 

On 12/25/2024 at 3:10 AM, djford said:

I still need to decide whether to include the Tudor rose 'figurehead' that was apparently affixed to the tip of the upper deck.

Oh, do it if you possibly can. You do know they've actually found the original, don't you? https://maryrose.org/artefacts/emblem-figurehead/ If you're worried about carving it, don't be. That's just a matter of practice. And using the correct wood (fruit woods are nice and fine grained - pear, apple , cherry. Or better still English box - buxus sempervirens - that's amazingly good). Have  ago! Carving can be very rewarding and fulfilling (and addictive if you're not careful!)

 

On 12/25/2024 at 3:10 AM, djford said:

Note I'm not planking the two internal decks;

No, there's no need. I made the mistake of not even including the decks at all in my Great Harry (hey, I was seventeen - I didn't think ahead far enough) and had terrible trouble supporting the cannons inside. I had to do all kinds of dodgy work to make it happen. Never again. But there's certainly no need to have planking on a deck that nobody will every see.

 

On 12/25/2024 at 3:10 AM, djford said:

And here's the top deck in place, with masts all test fit just because I could:

Very nice.

 

On 12/25/2024 at 3:10 AM, djford said:

In between this and the previous line is a strange pattern of cross hatching - I'm not entirely sure what to do here, so any input would be very appreciated.

Yes, that's a bit of a mystery. I don't think it's an open railing, which was the first thing that came to mind, as it doesn't continue around the stern. But the transom is not the same as the sides - it has to be solid to support the spar that takes the lateen sheet, so maybe that is an open railing after all. But yes, there is a narrow line of stripes above it. Perhaps a broad, painted top rail?

 

On 12/25/2024 at 3:10 AM, djford said:

my next task will be working out how on earth to get 1:80 scale boarding netting to look good. Any suggestions?!

I know McElvogue has shown a wooden support structure in his book, but I'm pretty sure that's speculative - I don't think anything was actually recovered. But I'm pretty sure the remnants of netting he shows are the real thing. I'd say, however, that his idea is practical and is quite probably what was done. Have a look at the "boarding frames" - that is, sort of pergola things that served the same purpose on earlier carracks. McElvogue's design is similar, but with the 'rafters' further apart, which would be sensible as the netting takes the place of the intervening rafters to act as a barrier to boarding. The main issue I had was - how do you deal with the problem of belaying all your rigging lines if a boarding netting is in the way? They normally belay either to the side of the ship or close to the relevant mast, and it's probably possible to work it all out. But you'd have to think it through well in advance so as not to paint yourself into a corner.  To be honest, I had been planning on a boarding netting on my Great Harry, but I chickened out - it all seemed too difficult. Though that was at 1:200 - yours at 1:80 shouldn't be as hard.

 

Steven

 

[Stevinne]

Very nice work.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Don't forget the painting of Henry setting out for Calais - it shows shields all around the top decks - presumably supported by open railings - so archers could shoot through the gaps between shields and still have a lot of protection via the shields.  Also, boarding netting would only be put up when the ship was readied for action with an enemy.  Henry was on a diplomatic mission, so there are no nets in place.

[djford]

Thanks for the kind words everybody!

 

Here's my next update, but first:

 

On 12/25/2024 at 11:45 PM, Louie da fly said:

Oh, do it if you possibly can. You do know they've actually found the original, don't you? https://maryrose.org/artefacts/emblem-figurehead/ If you're worried about carving it, don't be. That's just a matter of practice. And using the correct wood (fruit woods are nice and fine grained - pear, apple , cherry. Or better still English box - buxus sempervirens - that's amazingly good). Have  ago! Carving can be very rewarding and fulfilling (and addictive if you're not careful!)

Oh, I'll definitely be giving it a go! I've got some boxwood lying around so at some point it's definitely on the agenda - as is a trip to the museum to go see the real thing 😁

 

On 12/25/2024 at 11:45 PM, Louie da fly said:

I know McElvogue has shown a wooden support structure in his book, but I'm pretty sure that's speculative - I don't think anything was actually recovered. But I'm pretty sure the remnants of netting he shows are the real thing. I'd say, however, that his idea is practical and is quite probably what was done. Have a look at the "boarding frames" - that is, sort of pergola things that served the same purpose on earlier carracks. McElvogue's design is similar, but with the 'rafters' further apart, which would be sensible as the netting takes the place of the intervening rafters to act as a barrier to boarding. The main issue I had was - how do you deal with the problem of belaying all your rigging lines if a boarding netting is in the way? They normally belay either to the side of the ship or close to the relevant mast, and it's probably possible to work it all out. But you'd have to think it through well in advance so as not to paint yourself into a corner.

Yes, these are the issues I've been dealing with as well - and it's something I'm going to have to consider very soon as I think the nets will have to go in around the same time as the masts. I think I'll probably go with something similar to Mcelvogue's interpretation, though Marsden also has some input which I need to review. My other concern is actually sourcing a net that's that fine; I think judging by the scale I need around a 1.5mm hole size and probably about 0.8mm cordage - not really something I want to make myself, but I suspect that might be the only option. I did buy some sample fabric on etsy, but it was far too heavy for my purposes. I was also thinking of perhaps using some hessian fabric (burlap or jute for the non-UK speakers here) I have lying around, but even that seems too coarse. I'll keep looking.

 

On 12/26/2024 at 1:08 AM, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  Don't forget the painting of Henry setting out for Calais - it shows shields all around the top decks - presumably supported by open railings - so archers could shoot through the gaps between shields and still have a lot of protection via the shields.  Also, boarding netting would only be put up when the ship was readied for action with an enemy.  Henry was on a diplomatic mission, so there are no nets in place.

Yeah, the Anthony Roll also has the shields in the waist, and the Embarkment painting has them on the forecastle as well - but how they'd have been mounted is completely unknown!

 

Agreed the boarding nets wouldn't have been permanent, but for sure at least some of the support structure for them must have been. Looks to me like there was a sort of A-frame 'tent' structure on the sterncastle, and then the waist has a central walkway from which the nets were supported on spars - much like @Louie da fly detailed above.

 

On with my (small) update for today!

 

I carried on with the decking on the sterncastle's poop deck:

A bit of a weird shape resulting in a jigsaw puzzle, this, but it looks pretty good now it's done.

 

And then I tackled the railings. I wasn't keen on doing an open railing - I love what @Baker has done on his version, but I certainly don't have his artisanal skills and I doubted my own ability to make it look as good.

 

First I built up the sides and added a series of 9mm uprights:

These are spaced around 30mm apart, but I did play a little fast and loose with this, as at this point in the build nothing is quite square any more. Sue me.

 

I promptly forgot to take a single photo between this and completing the railing on this side. So here it is:

As you can see, I have interpreted the cross-hatching on the Anthony Roll image as a series of uprights which support the railing. As mentioned in the previous post, all of the strips of slightly reddish sapelli veneer will eventually be painted with the red and yellow stripes, just like the forecastle.

 

Here's the other side:

This side was a pain in the *** to get right - the whole thing is, it turns out, about 1.5mm off level. All things considered, less than it could have been, and not really noticable, but a huge nightmare when you've only got the right wood in 4mm widths. Ah well!

 

Shortly after this was taken, I added in the clinker planking on the exposed pine midway up at the front of the sterncastle wall.

 

And then I moved to the back!

 

Here you can see me building up the transom and testing out where the cannon will go. As you can see, I'm not building up the carriages properly, ommitting the wheels and the rear structure of each - only I, and everyone who sees this, will ever know!

 

I tried to follow the structure shown in the Anthony Roll as much as possible in this build, and for the most part it was just a puzzle of working out how to fill up the gaps and create something that'd be strong enough to support itself and the planking over the top. It's a little bit of a bodge in places, but I think it's come out looking great.

 

Here's the planking over the middle set of cannons:

Again, the strip of sapelli will be painted with stripes. In the Anthony Roll this stripe is actually above the ports, but this lines up with the stripes on the side of the sterncastle, so I thought it would look a bit better.

 

Next the top deck:

 

This posed a little bit of a challenge as I needed to include the middle window, and so I had to move where I'd initially planned to put the cannon ports. Not a major issue, but one that some better pre-planning would have avoided. I'm ver pleased with my uprights here; they all required a very slight curve that was a pleasure once I got it right.

 

N.b there aren't any obvious uprights in the Anthony Roll's depiction of this section, but I'd rather have these on the outside as it breaks up what would otherwise be rather bland clinker planking.

Speaking of which:

Here she is!

 

This is really beginning to look, to excuse the pun, ship-shape. I'm super pleased with how this bit has come out.

 

Next I'll be working on the aft side of the forecastle and the fore side of the sterncastle, at which point I'm very nearly done with the bulk of the initial build.

 

Thanks again for all the lovely comments and the engagement with this build.

See you next time!

 

 

[Louie da fly]

Very nice work, Doug. Looking very good.

 

10 hours ago, djford said:

My other concern is actually sourcing a net that's that fine; I think judging by the scale I need around a 1.5mm hole size and probably about 0.8mm cordage - not really something I want to make myself, but I suspect that might be the only option.

As I mentioned earlier, I chickened out on adding netting on my own Great Harry, but I found gauze at a fabric store that would have done the job nicely. You know, the stuff that goes on bridal gowns etc. Might be worth checking out. Probably synthetic, but what the hey. I chose black, firstly because the original stuff was probably tarred, secondly so it didn't grab the attention too much away from the rest of the ship.

 

10 hours ago, djford said:

but how they'd have been mounted is completely unknown!

 

Probably on what is known as a pavesade - basically just a railing that holds shields. They were probably tied to the rail by a rope passing through their enarmes (the straps at the back that you hold the shield by). That's certainly what I did with the shields on my dromon build, and it worked fine (though you have to make sure you get the alignment right).

 

Steven

 

[djford]

And another update! I knuckled down this week and got a lot of the tedious bits left to do on the hull out of the way. Here we go:

 

I put the rudder brackets on and attached the metalwork on the rudder itself.

This is actually still removable - I feel like I'm going to knock it and don't want to bend the relatively soft brass out of shape, so I'll just keep it off whilst still working on the build.

 

Then I started on the aft side of the forecastle:

 

Most of the following building work is done using the same principle of 0.8mm plywood as a foundation followed by planking over it with walnut. I won't go over the major details, so here's a few photos:

I made sure to keep the cannon pointing out at a suitable angle - the Anthony Roll has these pointing upward at quite an angle as well, but mine are relatively horizontal.

 

The way I'd put my decks in meant I couldn't follow the lines of cannon and windows exactly like the Anthony Roll depicts, but I've tried to be relatively faithful to that design, with the two windows at the top.

 

Here it is finished:

I'm really pleased with how this has come out. I used the same sort of design for my various portholes and cannon ports as I did along the sides of the ship, so it fits very well with the rest of the build.

 

On to the sterncastle:

I had a bit of scrap ply that was almost exactly the right width for the entire sterncastle's forward face, so I marked out where I wanted the various apetures and cut them out. The small arched openings are a little messy, but it doesn't show up too badly on the final product.

 

Here it is test fit with some of the details added:

 

And here with the rest of the detail:

 

Here it is with everything in place, and again I'm very pleased with this. I ended up adding one more strip of 2x3mm walnut at the top to fill in the gap between the face and the poop deck.

She's absolutely bristling with cannon now!

 

I also finally got around to finishing up the waist:

Caldercraft had some very strange designs in mind for the 8 ventilation hatches here, with an open square at the bottom and then a top plate that's only just large enough to sit on top of the opening. I'm not entirely sure what the idea was for this - there's supposed to be another larger square on top of each of them, but they were so flat and uninteresting that I've left them off. There's no evidence these holes even had hatch covers, but I wanted at least something on them as I'd not planked the deck below. The provided ladders were also way too long - an extremely frustrating part of the build. I ended up covering up the two ladderways on either side of the mast - they didn't exist in the real Mary Rose, as there was a bilge pump where one of them is.

 

Then I build up the trestle-tree and the top for the main mast:

 

I tested the mast length again and found that Caldercraft's measurements are just slightly shorter than I'd expect. According to R.C. Anderson's The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast, the mast should be 2.4x the length of the beam. That puts my mast at 336mm, which is 88 feet in real scale, though that's measuring from the deck and not from the keel - but Anderson notes that masts were getting shorter throughout the 16th and 17th centuries, so it stands to reason that the Mary Rose's could have been slightly longer. Most sources seem to think that the mast was around 80 feet.

As you can see, I have some wiggle room here, as my shrouds still won't interact with the sides of the sterncastle - especially once they go over the trestle-trees. I think I might be conservative and bring the trees down to the 300mm mark, or 78ft from the deck.

 

I also planked up the waist gangway. This will eventually support the struts for the boarding netting on each side of the waist, but I needed it planked now as I'll be putting in the masts soon and the mainmast goes through it.

 

And with this update, I'm pretty sure the main bulk of the build is done! I still need to paint the sterncastle stripes, but otherwise the majority of the wood is in place. Caldercraft's kit is extremely generous in this regard - despite the huge amount of extra stuff I've built, there's still an enormous amount of spare timber. The only thing I've ordered extra of is 3x2mm walnut strips. I did order extra 1.5x1.5mm wood as well, but it was left out of my order and I didn't end up needing extra.

 

 

Thanks for following along as always!

[Louie da fly]

That's very nice work. You've made a lot of forward progress since your previous post and its all looking very good.

 

Steven

[djford]

16 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

That's very nice work. You've made a lot of forward progress since your previous post and its all looking very good.

Thanks very much Steven!!

 

I made a little bit more progress today, and wanted to share it as I've reached a point I'm slightly unsure on.

 

Here's the masthead for the mainmast:

 

I built this mostly to Caldercraft's specifications, but I squared off the head instead of rounding it, as according to Anderson's book this is probably more period accurate. Also it's easier.

 

Here's me testing out the topmast:

 

Here's the mainmast, main topmast and main topgallant tapered, in place with mastheads assembled and dry-fit:

 

 

And so my concern, for those with more knowledge and experience than me - does this look too tall?

 

To scale, the total height here is just around 180 feet from the keel, or 150 feet from the deck. McElvogue quotes a source suggesting 150 feet for the main mast, but it isn't clear whether this is just the main or the whole structure - if it's the whole structure then that's actually way longer than my construction here, but if not then mine is likely a little too tall. Nothing is glued in here, so I can easily shorten each of the three sections, but I'm a little tight for clearance with the shrouds off the first top - I suspect I can only lower it by around 1-2cm before I have real issues.

 

Any input would be very appreciated!

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I've noticed that on the Anthony Roll, the first section of masting (as well as the bowsprit) seem 'impossibly' tall - topped by modest mast sections.  This depiction is also seen in other contemporary art.  Talk about instability in all but the lightest breezes.  The old Sergal 1:65 Great Henry used proportions like that in the kit design, and examples of more recent art also take after 'Anthony Roll proportions'.

 

 Yet there are examples of what seem to be more likely (sea worthy) mast length proportions both in art and models as shown below:

 

[Louie da fly]

I can't claim to know anything about what should be the correct height for the mainmast. McElvogue isn't my favourite author; I'd be looking at Anderson for preference, but even he is working with vessels that are from a period starting out 55 years after the Mary Rose sank, let alone when she was rebuilt (64 years). A lot can happen in that time. So at 1:80 you have 1-2 cm maximum to play with - that equates to 80-160 cm in the real world - 2'7" - 5'4' - in something like 150 feet above deck level - which is only 1.75% to 3.5% of that height. I can't see that making that amount of change would affect things very much.

 

However it's possible that at this time the top and topgallant masts were rather lighter than they became later. Certainly in the late 15th-early 16th century, the topmasts and topsails seem to be nothing much more than an afterthought. But of course we also have to allow for the evolution of sails and masts over the period between then and when Mary Rose was rebuilt in 1536. So really I can't help a lot in answering your question, but I hope I've raised some ideas for consideration.

 

Best wishes,

 

Steven

[SiriusVoyager]

Nice work so far!  This is quite the interesting build.