Santisima Trinidad: Occre vs DeAgostini

[mangaroca]

Hi,

 

Could you please point out the major differences, maybe some pros and cons of the Santisima Trinidad kits from Occre and DeAgostini?

 

I'm particularly interested in quality of parts and cuts, historical accuracy, planking (single or double), difficulty and your overall score.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to do this!

[Fam]

Hi Mangaroca

I built the DeA version and had the possibility to check the OcCre list of materials, instructions and building steps pictures: they are basically the same kit, but DeA provided much more detailed step-by-step instructions. Don't know if it is still the same nowaday.

No idea about the OcCre materials quality.

Regards

Fam

Edited November 29, 2013 by Fam

[mangaroca]

Thank you for a quick response! Hmmm, could anybody confirm that those are the same models?? I was let to believe DeAgostini was double-planked vs. Occre single-planked... 

[NMBROOK]

Hi mangaroca

Have seen many logs for the occre version and collecting the Deag version myself,yes there are fundamental design differences.They are the same Occre product,but the kit has been reengineered for deagostini.The construction process has been made easier with view to it being double planked vs single of the occre kit.There are one or two differences in how the bow is planked to make this easier in view of the extreme curve.

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[demonborger]

I found single planking for the Occre kit to be fairly simple, it was my third ship. The sapeli they provide for the planking is pretty decent stuff, and they provide so much extra material, I probably had about 25% of the material left over.

I'm not sure how Deagostini does the gun ports. For the Occre one something will have to be done to improve the gunports because the metal frames stick out a fair bit. I bought extra material that was 1mmx3mm and put it between the gunports and the wales to make it more level. Another who has a log here scratch build the gunports. 

Overall the Occre kit is great, and fairly simple to get a nice result, there is scope to improve it by changing the gunports and perhaps the metal cannon carriages. The plywood keel may also be changed to get a better finish (although this is not necessary).

[NMBROOK]

The gunports are identical on the Deagostini version as the occre

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[Fam]

Hi,

I confirm what Nimbrook wrote: there is some re-engineering here and there, the most important is the double planking vs single. Also cannot exclude that some of the eached brass or castings have been modified, but basically it remains the same kit.

DeA version was sold in weekly issues, with much more detailed instructions for beginners.

It was my 1st kit and I was able to complete it in about 2800 hours and 4 years (I took my time!), including lot of improvements and modifications, so to me the DeA version is a medium difficulty.

Regards

Fam

Edited November 30, 2013 by Fam

[Bettina]

Hi

I am not sure if you are aware of this but there is an excellent web site called Ships of Scale where a very talented gentleman called Donnie Driskell has done a HIGHLY detailed build log of the Occre Santisima Trinidad. I would highly recommend you checking this out as you can really see the quality of the Occre kit.

 

http://www.shipsofscale.com/Trinidad/index.html

 

 

Best wishes, Bettina

Edited December 3, 2013 by Bettina

[WackoWolf]

Also Donnie is a member here. I forget if his ship is in the Gallery or not. It was in MSW1 but then we had the crash.

Edited December 3, 2013 by WackoWolf

[mangaroca]

Hi

I am not sure if you are aware of this but there is an excellent web site called Ships of Scale where a very talented gentleman called Donnie Driskell has done a HIGHLY detailed build log of the Occre Santisima Trinidad. I would highly recommend you checking this out as you can really see the quality of the Occre kit.

 

http://www.shipsofscale.com/Trinidad/index.html

 

 

Best wishes, Bettina

Thank you all for the tips and information. I am actually studying Donnie's build log now! Oh, and I have subscribed to the DeAgostini's Santisima Trinidad. I chose them because as a beginner I'll definitely need clearer and more basic plans & instructions. Occre set might come in second but for now it's 33 issues from DeAgostini.

I will let you know how it goes and definitely ask for help

 

Thanks again for your assistance so far!

[mangaroca]

I have received my first set of parts from DeAgostini today (1st Issue = 5 Stages). All is fine apart from the Stage One parts which are.. well... very low quality. I noticed a few edges to be poorly cut and small bits of the external coat missing here and there on Rib 2. Now, I know probably over 50% of the people that buy issue 1 never get any other issue so the elements are produced with less attention but can anyone confirm this? All the parts from the following issues (2-5) are top quality and good wood..

[NMBROOK]

I now have up to part 30.The cuts on the bulkheads are rough compared to laser as they are cut with waterjet.However there is nothing that won't be removed by sanding and fairing before fitting the planking.All other timber supplied has been excellent quality so I wouldn't worry.The only issue I had was two broken bulkheads,but I think that has more to do with the postal service than Deagostini.They were easily glued back together so didn't bother with sourcing replacements.The packaging has improved since then so there hopefully won't be any other problems.

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[mangaroca]

Gentlemen,

 

I am slowly starting to plan things for my ST build and I'm reading many interesting build logs. However, they are all showing OcCre version of the ship and as far as I can see that model uses 3mm deck planking. DeAgostini planks are 5mm wide and I am concerned if this would make the model look out of proportion (the ship is big but the planks are huge...).

 

I was suggested to trim the original planks but they seem to be slightly too thin too. They are roughly 0.65 - 0.72mm thick compared to 1mm in the OcCre Kit...

I made a conscious decision about going with the DeAgostini kit instead of OcCre mainly because I am very new to this hobby and their build instructions are much more newbie-friendly. The thing is however that wherever I can change something to my own liking (and probably also historical accuracy) I am willing to take my chances. That's why I'm thinking of buying the 1x3mm planks.

 

Unfortunately, being close to a total noob I cannot decide which timber should be used for this purpose. Could you tell me if I should get:

- Lime

- Maple

- Beech

???

 

I like the original colour of the DeAgostini strips but I am unable to identify what wood it is... Please, help...

[NMBROOK]

Hi Mangaroca

The supplied deck planking has a yellow colour that does resemble Boxwood.It is more than likely one of the boxwood 'substitutes'.Other than using boxwood,your best bet would probably be maple or holly.I wouldn't recommend lime as the edges aren't really sharp enough for narrow deck planks.You are correct that 3mm wide is the way to go as 5mm is ridiculously wide at this scale.I know of a UK company that I get boxwood strips from.These are available in 2.7mm and 3.4mm wide,both 0.7mm thick and in 1m lengths.Where abouts are you based?

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[mangaroca]

Thanks for the tips! I live in Coventry, Warwickshire.

[NMBROOK]

Hi Mangaroca

 

Here is the link where I get my boxwood planks from.Click the boxwood flatlines box and see the different widths available.I put together a decent order as postage is dear but the packaging is the best,quite often including a piece of scrap mdf to prevent damage.

 

http://www.originalmarquetry.co.uk/category_Lines_and_Stringing_1.htm

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[mangaroca]

Thank you for that! Yes, the shipping is dear but hopefully the quality will be good.

 

I have two small dilemmas though...

 

1. Which wood to go for: Maple or Boxwood? Maple comes cheaper and others have been using it in their build logs, Boxwood looks more "professional" with all those fancy measurements (e.g. 2.7mm, 3.4mm etc).. Which brings be to my second concern...

 

2. If the deck planks were 25ft long (84.6 cm or 3.3 inch in a 1:90 scale) which width is the closest to the original:

- 3,4 mm

- 3,0 mm

- 2,7 mm

 

?

[NMBROOK]

Personally I would go for boxwood,I have used the boxwood stringing(3.4mm) on my Caroline build for the deck if you want an idea of what it looks like.My original intention was to use the 2.7mm on my Trinidad when i start it but my plans involve only pear and ebony now.At the end of the day,the choice is yours,but boxwood will give you the same warm yellow as the kit supplied decking and I think the hull planking is also the same colour(minus the dark bands of course).If you choose this route I would recommend going for a pack of 100 lengths so you don't need to order anymore later and incur another shipping charge.

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[mangaroca]

my plans involve only pear and ebony now

 

Why only those two? Are they considered better quality, easier to work with, last longer?

 

Also, I'll be making my Keel Clamp for the model and I need some timber blocks to glue down onto a board. Is balsa hard enough for that? There are some nice deals here:

 

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/balsa-block.html

 

but they are a bit short (2 per side?)..

 

Do you need a specific type of wood for that or is that balsa going to be good? 

Edited January 20, 2014 by Mangaroca

[mangaroca]

I'm sorry to bother you and repeat the question but please tell me if balsa wood is good for making the keel "clamp" such as the one in the attached picture. I need to place my order ASAP and knowing this is vital to me...  I'm simply worried that balsa will be too soft :/

Edited January 20, 2014 by Mangaroca

[Dan Vadas]

please tell me if balsa wood is good for making the keel "clamp"

 

 

In a word - NO. It's way too soft and will distort over time and use. I'd use Pine, which you can get cheaply enough at any hardware store.

 

  Danny

[mangaroca]

Thank you Sir! Will alter my shopping list right away!

[mangaroca]

Hi,

 

I put the false keel parts together and discovered that the first element (bow) must have been damaged in transit. Nothing is broken but the parcel must have been lying under something heavy and the false keel has been twisted and bent. There is no damage apart from the fact that the keel is not straight anymore and it's back (where it should join with the ship mid-section) is about 1cm to one side when looked from the top. The twisting is particularly visible when looking from the back. Please, see the attached sketch.

 

Now, as far as I know this element is made of plywood. Hopefully, there are ways to make it straight again. Moisturising, bending and drying? Ironing? I've seen a couple of the plank bending methods but I'm sure you have faced similar issues before and could suggest something that you know is working. I guess, I could leave this curve to the decks to straighten but it's a bit risky and I think the tendency to twist would remain nevertheless. :/

 

Please, help.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Mangaroca

[NMBROOK]

Hi Mangaroca

My apologies,been offline the last day or two.Yes the keel needs to be flat to avoid later hassles.Wetting and then applying weights on a flat surface usually sorts this out.Leave for a few days to ensure the timber is fully dry.If this fails to work,rewet the timber and flatten it with a hot iron on a flat surface by repeatedly ironing it both sides until the heat dries the ply out.

I am going with pear and ebony because I wish to build this ship in the 'Russian palace' style.I feel this ship particularly lends itself to this style.

My I suggest you start a build log,you will find there will be no shortage of help and advice should you need it.

Kind Regards Nigel

[demonborger]

Personally I think Tanganyka looks the best for deck planking and you can source it from cornwall model boats.

 

Another suggestion is to purchase some red paduac(k) also, in 1x3mm.

I suggest it because:

1. The metal gunports (or wooden substitutes) stick out, having the extra material makes it look better.

2. Many people like a red Santisima Trinidad and red paduac is one way to achieve it.

3. The walnut wales are 4mmx2mm and will still stick out above the 1mmx3mm paduac. They won't be as prominent but will look better,

4. 3mm lengths work because the plans indicate the gap is 12mm between wales, enough for 4x3mm approximately.

[md1400cs]

Hi Mangaroca

 

Here is the link where I get my boxwood planks from.Click the boxwood flatlines box and see the different widths available.I put together a decent order as postage is dear but the packaging is the best,quite often including a piece of scrap mdf to prevent damage.

 

http://www.originalmarquetry.co.uk/category_Lines_and_Stringing_1.htm

 

Kind Regards Nigel

I'm silently following Mangaroca's new log. I clicked on the link where you source some timber. Shipping to the USA $50.00 USD --- OUCH

 

The cross section of this ship is under my table (OcCre). After seeing Jack's x-section of the same, I got super interested in doing a first x-section. Also his wall display case for this is so beautiful.

 

---------------------------

 

Hi Mangaroca  GOOD luck, I will enjoy following along. Did not mean to step into your log with superfluous content. Apologies this is Your log (:-)

 

PS: You are right about the gun port frames, they don't look right. The cross section kit included the same ones. Hmmmm.

 

OH and I have spent a lot of time looking at Donnie Driskell's log AMAZING. So much to learn from Enjoy....

 

 

Regards,

 

Michael

[demonborger]

A word of caution for Santisima Trinidad owners. The kit is fairly top heavy when constructed, so ensure you have a nice sturdy cradle for it or a solid keel clamp. Whilst rushing for the phone I placed mine on the shelf and it toppled over. Fortunately the only damage was the stern casting fell off which was easily repaired.

[mangaroca]

Ouch! Thanks for the word of warning!