How do you scale imported images in TurboCad

[BANYAN]

Hi, I am a relative newbie to CAD (using TurboCAD 20 Deluxe) and believe I am going about the scaling process the wrong way.  Could anyone please advise the best way to scale an imported picture which I intend to use to trace, or take alignment lines from.

 

I am trying to draw the deck arrangements for a ship (one-of -a-kind design) but very similar to the gun despatch vessels of the mid-nineteenth century.  I have already imported the deck plans for two of this class as well as a photo (adjusted)  which I use to trace and/or align to draw the deck fittings/arrangements.

 

To date my routine has been to create a layer with dimensions (real-world scale) shown.  I then import the image, rotate it to get it level and then manually adjust it (takes a lot of fiddly adjustments but eventually I get there) so that the picture fits to the required scale (as drawn on the Dimensions layer - usually the length between verticals with elongated perpendicular ends).  This process is difficult as when the object (layer) to be scaled is selected it comes to the fore and hides the underlying dimensions/scale layer.  Sending it to the back is not the same as layer management in say Photoshop, as in this case it is the objects that are sent to the back (which can be on the same layer).

 

Is there an easier way?  I was hoping to try and draw a line on the imported picture (say between the verticles), lock/merge/group this line with the picture, and then set the line's length via the properties/values for line length hoping this would then scale the grouped photo with it - BUT  this does not seem to work (or more likely I am doin git all wrong ).

 

Also, is there anyway in TurboCAD to make layers semi-transparent when working with them so I that can see the image/lines under the selected object while manipulating them?  A lot to ask but I have been unable to find anything in the set-up or preference3s etc to do this.  I would very much value any ideas or tips from you experienced folks?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited December 4, 2013 by BANYAN

[capnharv2]

Hi Pat,

 

Before I say anything else, Wayne Kempson is (in my opinion) the resident expert of lofting and TurboCad. So if he or any other expereinced TurboCad operators say something contrary to what I say, please ignore my comments. Also note that my comments apply to TC 17, so YMMV.

 

As far as the lines disappearing behind the image, I find it best to make my keel line and perpendiculars much longer than the image. When the image covers them up, I zoom out and click outside the image. That's the best way I've found yet keep the lines to the front.

 

Secondly, are you lofting full size? If not, I recommend it. One of the beauties of a CAD program is that the drawing size is infinite.

 

Lastly, as far as zooming and shrinking the image, have you used the Scale X and Scale Y picks on the lower left? Greater than 1 enlarges, less than 1 shrinks it. If you have the aspect ratio locked, you should only need to change one-just make sure the Scale X and Scale Y stay the same.

 

Again, I'm only a neophyte at Turbocad, so I certainly defer to the knowledgable ones on this forum.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

[BANYAN]

Thanks  for the promt response Harvey, helps a lot and I appreciate your feed back.  I had hoped Wayne may look in   I have set a target to reread his tutorial this weekend.

 

WRT full size loft - Yep! Only way to go as you have suggested.  I am also using the trick of the extended lines, but wished to avoid the constant zooming.  The other trick I have found is to bring the other layers/objects to the front (viewing) is to click the eyeball off/on for the associated image layer, this brings the the dimension and alignment lines to front again.  The benefit is that I have found drawings of some of the ship's equipment/fittings which are drawn to scale which I can import and resize to the real dimensions and then align them before tracing over them (e.g. I know the chain cable was 1.5" diameter, so the drawings of the capstan can be rescaled until the chain is 1.5" and then the capstan should be to actual size also.

 

I wasn't aware of the Scale X/Ypicks, I need to investigate that a bit more - I am assuming this is scaling down / up in factors with 1 = 100%.  When you say 'lock' the ratio aspect is that the button / tool for ' keep aspect' or something similar; in the local menu? (in TC 20 anyway).  OR, is it like the little lock that locks the field value in the inspector bar?  Is that the place this Aspect tool lives also?  Anyway, back to the TC forum to investiogate the Scale picks now - thanks.

 

[Edit - Havrvey tried the scale pick boxes and they worked a treat for rescaling concentric odd shaped items such as skylights, not as helpful as for the rescasling of the larger images though]

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited December 4, 2013 by BANYAN

[gjdale]

Hi Pat,

 

I use TurboCad for Mac, so things may be a bit different, but I had exactly this problem when I started out and sought advice directly from the guru - Wayne Kempson. The answer was to re-scale using Expand/Shrink within Transformation Tools. Your software may be slightly different but the principles should hold true. Here is Wayne's description to me of how to re-scale using three points:

 

On your drawing set up the perpendiculars and the keel line (which should already be done anyway). Let's say the aft perpendicular (AP) is to the left, etc. Then draw a line parallel to the AP at a distance from the AP equal to the length you are looking for. This is the new forward perpendicular (FP). Now, extend the keel line to this new line. Now you have three points defined by the intersection of the keel line with the AP, the old FP, and the new FP. For your three points, the AP intersection is your anchor point, the intersection with the old FP is the source or start point, and the intersection with the new FP is the destination or end point. This should do it.

 

The above is an exact quote from Wayne. I've since upgraded to a newer version of TC for Mac and do it slightly differently, but this method should still work. You could always PM Wayne direct (which is what I did).

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

Edited December 4, 2013 by gjdale

[wrkempson]

The advice here is guru-esque to be sure.  I may add one thing.

 

If I understand the question, it seems that lines drawn on top of an imported photo are covered up when the photo is selected.  You might also select the lines in question and then they show up with the photo.  When you scale the photo the lines will scale with it, however.  But if we are talking about the AP and FP that shouldn't be such a bad thing.  Construction lines cannot be selected, but you already know the work around for that.

 

I am flattered whenever anyone reads that little treatise, but at the same time am embarrassed by the things in it that should be edited.  So, I ask you to take it as a starting suggestion and not as gospel.  I would have removed it a long time ago, but it seems folks are still getting some use out of it.

 

Wayne

[HSM]

I use Turbocad 8.2 for Windows, but I expect it is the same for most versions of the program.

 

If you didn't know, you can copy/paste photos directly from Photoshop and probably from any bitmap program, but they must be small, around 1000 pixels or less. If you try to import larger images you can paste "something", but there is no image, just the blue boxes and other "pick-points".

 

For scaling, you can use the XY scale and XY dimensions in the lower left corner as has already been mentioned. You can also drag one of the blue boxes in the corners of the image to stretch it, and you can hold the shift key to lock the XY dimension ratios as you scale.

 

To put the line you've drawn on top of the image pick the line, and go to Format, and then Bring to Front. That will put the line over top of the image.

 

Hope that helps!

[BANYAN]

Hi all, and many thanks for the valuable feedback.

 

Grant, thanks to the pointer and exactly the sort of thng I was trying to achieve with lines but not using the correct command (3 point Shrink/Expand).  Many thanks for that!

 

Wayne, thanks for looking in.  I am ever so glad you haven't removed it as it is still a very useful tutorial.  I will heed your advice to treat it as a guide rather than gospel as, among other things, some ways of doing things may be version specific.  I have another image to import tonight so I will give your method (as advised to Greg) a shot.  I am only doing deck arrangements and a side profile (as drawings) so the issues with waterlines and stations is not a great concern in this little effort thankfully.  Thanks on the idea for keeping the lines to the fore also.  As you say rescaling the AP, FP and Keel is a 'good thing', it's the alignment lines I want to keep as are.  We spent a bit of time in Photoshop adjusting the side profile photo as it was actually slightly stbd bow offset (towards camera) and we needed to adjust for that so we could use the photo to create alignment lines for the positioning of some of the fittings. 

 

Wayne while I have your attention (if I may) - another frustration I am dealing with is TCs penchant for returning to the last object used for a particular drawing tool.  For example, if I select polygon line tool, I return to the model space and if I am not careful to check (more often tha not ) TC draws the new object on the layer this tool was last used, even if it is locked - is there a way (preference setting I have missed?) for stopping this that you have found?

 

HSM - may thanks.  I am using TC 20 and I am finding that importing very large images is not a problem and I have four embedded so far - waterlines for the actual ship, deck plan for Arrow Class, deck plan for Vigilant class and a side profile plate photograph (taken in 1868) - I have a scan of a side-profile lithograph to go.   Great tip about cut and paste direct from Graphic programs - thanks.

 

[Edit: Apologies to Grant]

cheers

 

Pat

Edited December 5, 2013 by BANYAN

[wrkempson]

Nope, don't know of a way to stop it.  Look at it this way, when you select a drawing tool, it has to be drawn on some layer.  So TC assumes you have assigned the layer to the tool that is good for you.  It really isn't that much to change the layer assigned to a drawing tool.  Objects can have their layer changed pretty easily as well from the drop down menu in the upper left.

 

A locked layer does not prevent a new object being inserted but does block changing an object once it is on the layer.  

 

As you learn TC, the help documentation is pretty good.  Also, there is a forum  http://forums.turbocad.com/  that has some really nice people on it who are always willing to answer questions.

 

Wayne

[BANYAN]

Thanks Wayne - back to the (virtual) drawing board and more practice