Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack by Dee_Dee - FINISHED - Scratch Build based on Chapelles book "American Small Sailing Craft" + 1 Part from Midwest Products - 1:24 - Small

[popeye the sailor]

I felt I had to answer that one Dee Dee.........shemp,  and Joe are relatives of the main characters.  Joe is also Curly's middle name.

Shemp Howard {Moe's brother,  I believe} and Joe Fife {Larry's cousin}.  those are the only two added characters that I know of.....I used to watch them alot!   I'll be glad when I can correctly name those builds,  although with the ideas I've been getting,  I'm beginning to have doubts about the third one.   how are you coming along on your neat little build........should be masting her pretty soon,  I would imagine.

 

green fish!........get yer green fish here!   much better than the blue food they're trying to feed us! :D

[Dee_Dee]

Almost done with my build.  The mast, gaff and boom are made and spent the afternoon making the 10 mast hoops (Ala Remco.)  After I make the change to the hatch opening, I'll post some update photos.

 

   

I thought this would be a good time to add some side information.  In a few MBLS build logs, there are some recurring unanswered questions about the MBLS. 

1.  How were the sails set while working?

2.  Why were there no shrouds?

3.  Why the angle of the transom?

4.  Why did both Land Apprentices MBLS's sink?

 

I want this build to be close to authentic, so I started digging for answers.  Chapelle's book provided a lot of information and also found a couple of websites that had some information. 

 

So!  Here's what I found.  Please add your thoughts    

 

 

HOW WERE THE SAILS SET WHILE WORKING

Excerpt from "Stories from Friendship, Maine" 

In use, this rig was quite handy; the boom was swung out near perpendicular to the centerline of the boat making it easy to see why shrouds would cause trouble. Chafe was a very big concern in these vessels and protecting the only mode of propulsion was paramount. The jib would be sheeted in, hard to the centerline. This would permit the vessel to "lie to" well balanced and under control, where fishing operations could be undertaken without tending the rig.

 

I found a similar quote on another website, "The Hull Story:"  

When an eighty-year old lobsterman was asked about this, he said, "Lead out the sheet of the mains'l quite a way, and trim the jib tight while you're hauling. The sloop will lay good then."  You can hear that Mainer accent

 

WHY WERE THERE NO SHROUDS

From "The Hull Story"

Free standing rig, meaning no stays or shrouds to hold the stick upright, served a couple of purposes, the first was to provide deck space, free of standing rigging which could foul nets and drags and the other was a safety feature in heavy weather. The solid mast was sized to bend and spill wind in gusts and to break clean, if over powered enough to endanger the vessel.

 

MSW member Capnharv2, refurbished a Friendship Sloop and has an intimate knowledge of these boats.  Harv posted similar info on my first MBLS build log:

Unstayed masts are not unusual on boats of this era and size. They're designed to bend and spill wind when overpowered. It's alarming, at first, to watch the mast bend 5 feet or so at the top. After a while you begin to understand the unstayed bendy mast is a safety valve when in gusty conditions.

 

WHY THE ANGLE OF THE TRANSOM

The angle of the transom is a design feature that many people like about this boat.  So simple!  

From "The Hull Story"

The heavily raked counter was to allow nets to be dragged over the transom without fouling the corners and keel hung rudder. 

A photo in post # 51 shows the keel hung rudder.

 

WHY DID BOTH LAND AND SEA APPRENTICES MBLS SINK?

From Land and Sea Apprentices

http://apprenticinglandandsea.com/?p=207

It is unfortunate that both boats sank and makes us question the design as a potential factor in why they sank. In both cases, one in Long Island Sound, the other off Portland Head Light, the sloops were sailing just off the wind and submarined. They are lovely, quick and enticing boats. Why they sank is still up for debate. Was it the design of the boat? Was it the seamanship and handling? Both sloops were brought to the surface and are on the hard on Long Island, New York. We do not have many more details…We encourage readers to cast opinions and fill in any details that are missing.

 

From the Hull Story:  The solid mast was sized to bend and spill wind in gusts and to break clean, if over powered enough to endanger the vessel.

 

Per Chapelle:  "When a Muscongus Bay sloop becomes a yacht, it is usual to dock her main boom and shorten the bowsprit a bit---- 'to bring the sails inboard as much as possible.'"

 

My thoughts:  There are a few issues that when combined, caused the boats to submarine and sink.

1.  When the shrouds were added, the boom should have been docked and the bowsprit shortened, reducing the sail size.  

2.  The MBLS mast is set very forward, similar to a cat boat.  The bowsprit allows the use of a jib sail

3.  While sailing just off the wind, (just off the stern) the shrouded mast was unable to flex and spill the excess wind off the (oversized) sails

 

These photos are from Land and Sea Apprentices website.    

 

This first photo shows that boom was not docked, nor the bowsprit shortened.  

 

This is a really nice photo.  In this photo, they're sailing just off the wind.  If you look close, you can see where the shrouds are attached to the mast.  This reduces the masts ability to flex and spill excess wind.    

 

This is the key photo. 

In this photo they're sailing just off the wind, the boom is near perpendicular and the jib is fully let out.   This photo shows just how forward  the mast is set.  IMHO, this issue is at the top of the main sail, a small section is now in front of the mast.  Since the excess wind cannot be spilled (because of the shrouds) the bow is forced down, resulting in submarine.   

 

 

 

I've learned a lot while building this humble boat and I'm looking forward to my next build!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hexnut]

Great post, Dee_Dee, to me, the following (posted in the thread "how a boat sinks" in wooden boat.com) makes the most sense:

 

 

Roger Long

 

Re: How a boat sinks - Muscongus Bay Sloop

I can't as a naval architect, see anything in this hull that would warrant calling it a dangerous type. I doubt many drove under when fishing. I can see where this particular hull might be slightly more vulnerable but I wouldn't label that a "cause" of the two sinkings.

Traditional working boats like this have a lot more sail area that would be found on most modern designs of the same weight and waterplane area. They didn't have this to provide thrills for the people who fished them but to be able to get around in light air before engines were common. The people who made their living in these craft knew the vessels limitations and how to reef. The requirements of handling fishing gear would usually cause them to have sail area reduced in a breeze to the point that we would consider them dogs today.

Put a bunch of people on a traditional boat who are out for fun and whose expectations of reefing have been shaped by modern craft, and all sorts of bad things can happen aside from driving the bow under.

[Dee_Dee]

Bob,  

 

This post only talks about the sail size, which was the first of my 3 points.  The last comment I think is spot on! 

Can you please share this link in wooden boat.com, I would love to read more! 

[hexnut]

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?164895-How-a-boat-sinks-Muscongus-Bay-Sloop

 

Heres the link, it's a very interesting discussion.  I think the point of the default sailing configuration being " reefed up" with the full spread used only in light airs really rings true, it's like having a work truck with a 'creeper' first gear, you always start in second unless you really need to start a lot of weight up a hill, pull a stump or drive at the pace of a bale-loading crew without burning up the clutch...

[Dee_Dee]

Thanks Bob!  

 

I forgot about this forum and there has been some update since I last checked it.  

I read through the posts, lots of good discussion!  

So far we are in agreement with the size of the sails and the position of the mast.  I'm going to add a post asking about the stayed mast.  

Looking forward to your next build update!

 

Dee Dee     

[egkb]

Just read your fascinating piece Dee_Dee & Bob..  To have sailed a boat under (submarining) is definitely an indication of being over canvased for the conditions, especially if you run into the back of the 'next' wave, modern boats could handle that better (in the right hands) and would be an exhilarating ride.. but older craft especially work boats weren't built to be exhilarating  but to be functional and safe when handled correctly. Photos #2 & #3 unfortunately show a work boat being used in a 'modern' racing boat sense.. ie fully canvased and tearing along.. you would get away with it up to a point , but cross that 'point' and you will have problems that even a hugely experienced sailor would struggle to rectify quickly.

Dee_Dee take a look at your models bow section and see if there would be much 'Reserve Buoyancy'  were she to be pressed down forward in a gust of wind and in a following sea due to being over canvased (MBLS's seem to have a narrow entry, which wouldn't like being pressed down I would think)

Shame to think of those absolutely beautiful boats being ostracised due to possible ill handling.

 

All the Very Best

 

Eamonn

[Dee_Dee]

Eamonn,

 

We're pretty much all in agreement.   The bow section is very sharp and deep, it doesn't start to widen out until the cabin, two feet behind the mast, so there is no chance if the bow is pushed down.  Also, the mast was sized to act as a 'safety valve' if over powered, bending to dump the wind or break.  But those mast were stayed, negating the safety valve.  There was also another issue, the width of the main sheet horse.  On working boats, these would be almost the full width of the stern.  With the wider horse, when the boom is fully let out, the boom could be sheeted down hard, to avoid the turn in the sail.  When a sail has a turn in it, the sail cannot dump the excess wind.  This turn in the sail can been seen in the third photo.

 

I would really like to sail one of these boats! 

[Dee_Dee]

I've reached the tipping point on this build:  The learning curve has flattened out and I need to complete this build and move on to something more challenging. 

           

The boom and gaff were turned from 3mm x 3mm walnut.    These yokes are an improvement over the last yokes I made.  I added 'black iron' bands to the boom and gaff, but not sure if these are authentic.  The bands were made from rag paper, AKA a dollar bill.  The mast hoops will also be made out of this dollar bill.

 

I abandoned the idea of making a pivoting bow sprit.  Conceptually, it sounded good!  The bow sprit and samson post were made from 5mm x 5mm walnut, sanded down to 4mm x 4mm and tapers down to 2.5mm. 

The kit mast is 7mm - 7" in scale and that is way too big!  This mast was turned from 5mm x 5mm walnut and tapers down to 2.5mm (2.5") at the top.  This taper allows the mast to function and bend as it was designed to do.  I am starting to like having a square mast step.  The mast hoops were also made from that dollar bill.  They measure 1.5" high and 1" wide with an ID of 5".  These took an afternoon to make (ala Remco) and look good.  I started out with 10 mast hoops, but lost one last night.      

  

 

The first hatch opening was a less than stellar, but I figured it out and this one looks much better.  It's fully functional and that was my goal!  (OK, it's about 4mm too wide and a few mm too short, oh well!)  

 

 

And a final photo of the main sheet horse.  In Chapelle's book, the last paragraph in this chapter goes into to detail about the main sheet horse.  In working boats, especially working boats with center boards, it was common to have an ultra wide main sheet horse, so when the boom was fully let out, the main sail could still be sheeted down hard.   

 

Lot's of little stuff to do and hopefully I can finish this build in the next few days. 

 

As always, Thanks for stopping by!   

 

 

Edited to add 'with center boards'

Edited April 7, 2014 by Dee_Dee

[timo4352]

Looking great Dee Dee. I never gave any thought to the mast diameter! You have really put a lot of thought and research and effort into this model. One to be proud of for sure. Looking forward to seeing it complete. 

[egkb]

Wonderful stuff as always Dee_Dee, could you elaborate on the Pivoting Bow Sprit.. haven't heard of that before ! (sounds like something from a modern ocean racer, with there adjustable stubby version of a bow sprit   ) 

Agreed the MBLS looks like a sweet boat to sail, either with the authentic or the 'chopped down' version of rig!

 

All The Very Best

 

Eamonn

BTW What's next for you?

[popeye the sailor]

looking sweet Dee Dee.......I see your keeping with the uniform color....very nice!   nice looking gaffs too!

[captainbob]

Almost finished and looking great.

 

Bob

[Dee_Dee]

Thanks for all the likes!

 

Tim,

My objective with this build is to get close to what the original MBLS looked like and learn the skills I will need for my next build.  Yep! I'm looking forward to completing this build and moving on to my next build, but this is not a race. 

I have the Pinky on the shelf.  The Pinky is a challenge to plank and it would be great if you posted your planking progress frequently.  (Hint! Hint!   )

 

Eamonn,

So far, I know of three types of bow sprits:  Fixed, sliding and pivoting.       

A fixed bowsprit is what I built on the MBLS.  The bowsprit is permanently attached to the hull, the samson post and bow chain keeps it in place.

A sliding and pivoting bowsprit serve the same purpose, when the jib sail is not needed, the bowsprit is stored, either by sliding it out or folding it up and lashing it to the mast.  The pivoting bowsprit was especially needed when the harbor is located up a river with lots of turns and bends.  On working boats with long bowsprits navigating up the river could be a challenge.  

In woodenboat forum, there was a comment 'An elegant way to evade those annoying extra moorage fees on bowsprits.'  Photo by Patrick Debetencourt.

 

 

 

 

The French boat Granvillaise, is a spectacular looking boat, its sliding bowsprit is almost as long as the mast is tall.  This first photo shows the bowsprit extended and the second shows the bowsprit drawn in as it enters the harbor. 

 

 

A better picture is available directly from this website:  http://www.fond-ecran-image.com/galerie-membre,bateau-replique,granville-la-granvillaise-p1220905jpg.php

 

Edited April 10, 2014 by Dee_Dee

[egkb]

Thanks Dee_Dee, I snapped the Bow Sprit off my Dad's Gaff Rigged boat many years ago putting her into a tight space 'Med Mooring' style, bit embarrassing, but I was only 16 !  that's my excuse anyhoo...  it was definitely pivoting by the time I was finished with it !

 

Sail 'er Easy

 

Eamonn

[hexnut]

The mast hoops are every bit as upscale as the rest of the boat-- fine woods and instead of a humble coin under the step, dollar bills for the hoops!

The finish looks great, as well as details like the horse/traveler assembly.  Are you going to use tung oil or anything on the deck or leave it natural?

 

A word of caution on the pivoting bowsprit: The boats I have seen with this feature have a separate fore-stay from the stem to the mast top.  The tension between the forestay and the bobstay seemed to be critical to this rig for balancing the long boom and gaff, so the bowsprit often took on a "banana" shape after much tightening of the turnbuckle.  I've seen friendship sloops with an additional forestay (many carried a forestays'l as well as a jib.) Are you going to add a similar feature?

[timo4352]

Thanks for all the likes!

 

Tim,

My objective with this build is to get close to what the original MBLS looked like and learn the skills I will need for my next build.  Yep! I'm looking forward to completing this build and moving on to my next build, but this is not a race. 

I have the Pinky on the shelf.  The Pinky is a challenge to plank and it would be great if you posted your planking progress frequently.  (Hint! Hint!   )

 

 

Dee Dee

I didn't want to bore you all, or just overdo it with constant updates on the Pinky planking - but if you're looking for more - I'll surely post some for you. 

[Dee_Dee]

Thanks for the visits and the likes.  

 

Eamonn,

Yep!  Med mooring is like trying to parallel park a boat in a space barely large enough for a sardine!   

 

Bob, 

Our conversations have made this build very enjoyable. The basswood deck is finished with poly.  It needs refinishing due to all of the 'characteristic traits' it has accumulated during the build.  I abandoned the pivoting / sliding bowsprit because it was not right.  Definitely a feature for future builds.  Dollar bills for the hoops, not quite, I think each one cost about 3 cents.   

As for the banana shape - something like this?   

[Dee_Dee]

All the small stuff is done.  I found some plastic cleats that were the absolute perfect size and shape, I need 6 cleats, but only had three cleats, I used these on mast and bowsprit.  I had some 8mm metal cleats that were reduced down to 5mm, but they looked chunky and clunky.  So, I'm going to go on a treasure hunt for the remaining three cleats. 

 

Three times a charm!  It took three tries to get the hatch right.  It was worth it! 

 

I added a chain bobstay last night, but the scale of the chain is too big, if I can't find a smaller scale chain, I'll replace it with a rope bobstay or maybe even omit it. You can see one of the cleats on the mast -  They measure ~5" x 1".  The metal cleats measured 5" x 2" with a chunky base.  The three metal cleats were installed in the cockpit, but I removed them a few hours later.   

 

Next up is the rigging.  Since all of the blocks are made and installed, this will only take a few hours.  But the real world is calling and I have some real work to do.    

 

Thanks for stopping by

 

Dee Dee

[themadchemist]

I like your theory on why the apprentice smacks sank, my question is why did they shroud them?

 

Lots of beautiful work done lately, she's almost there. Your log has been a spectacular ride of information, Thanks for sharing so much detail and research. So what is next, you've mentioned a Pinky and a Pilot? Either will be fun to watch and learn.

 

Hum, so the last mast hoops I made from 0.5mm cherry, but I like the black one's you've made from $'s. Something to think about as the paper would handle WAY easier then wood. Is there a reference to the process, you mention Remco, is it in his log and I missed it?

[egkb]

Wonderful stuff Dee_Dee, the wee boat looks the business, I think you nailed the hatch but that chain must be tiny, is it possible to get smaller?   wow !!  if it is possible you wouldn't want to yawn too near it as you might breath it in..

 

Slán

 

Eamonn

[popeye the sailor]

looking very nice Dee Dee  

[JesseLee]

Looks great! Like Keith, I would like to know the process of making the mast hoops.

[Dee_Dee]

Keith,  I can only speculate why the shrouds were added.  Glad you are enjoying the ride.  This build has been fun and a learning process on how to research!  My copy of Chapelle's book has taken a beating,  the spine is broken open to the MBLS chapter and the pages are covered with penciled in notes.  I found a couple of good websites with corroborating info and my conversations with Hexnut Bob have been priceless. 

When I said 'ala Remco', I was referring to Remco's signature line:  'Treat each part as if it is a model on its own, you will finish more models in a day than others do in a lifetime.'   I took this line to heart when I started this build.  I'll do a 'how to' post for the mast hoops with info and photos.

  

Eamonn, Yep!  Three times a charm!  I cut off the chain this morning and it looks like I will do a rope bobstay.  But I'm still not sure this is right, due to the cutwater.  How's your juggling going?

 

Popeye, as always, thank you for stopping by. I've been reading all of your build logs and learning lots of neat stuff!

 

Jesse, Thanks,  I've put together a how to for these and will add it next.  They're easy to make. 

 

And many thanks for the likes!

 

 

Dee Dee 

 

 

 

[themadchemist]

Thanks on the hoop info to come. I was mainly interested in your glue choice, PVA or CA.

I've made about half of those I need so far from cherry veneer using PVA, but the black I think would look good as a contrast since I've been adding some ebony accents. Plus I'm always interested in new methods.

I agree whole heartedly with the Remco Philosophy, It's like the old Johnny Cash tune, one piece at a time.

[Dee_Dee]

Keith and Jesse asked about how I made my mast hoops.  I use a process similar to how others make mast hoops out of wood shaving, I'm just using a different material. 

 

When I was building my Phantom, I didn't like the idea of using a strip of manila file folder for the mast hoops, so I came up with an alternative way to make them.  I've been using this method whenever a wood mast hoop was needed. 

The hoops for the main mast were made first.  This is where I learned that I needed to color the paper before wrapping.  If you look close, you can still see some green.  The foremast on my Phantom has 14 mast hoops with a total stack height of 11mm, the hoops average .7mm. 

 

The main mast has 15 mast hoops and you can still see some green.     The foremast has 14 mast hoops and look better

                                               

 

Some of the foremast hoops are .5mm thick.  

 

My preference is a dollar bill with a little bit of even wear, primarily because it is economical.  Other options include stationary with high rag content, parchment paper.  One of the best and most authentic looking materials I've experimented with to make mast hoops is silver birch bark.  I used the under bark and the mast hoops look like they were made from cherry. 

 

Samples of various materials:  Stationary with high rag content, dollar bill and four made from the bark of a silver birch.  The mast hoop on top was not blackened until after it was made, impossible to get a permanent color on the top and bottom  

 

The paper should be strong enough to facilitate wrapping, yet worn enough to wrap smoothly and allow the CA glue to soak through.

Please don't get put off with CA glue.  With a little bit of tweaking, PVA or other glues can be used, I've just never tried using other glues.  Please!  Experiment and add your findings.

 

So far, I've only used a black Sharpie permanent marker to ink both sides of the dollar bill.  Yep, it's boring, yet correct since many mast hoops were tarred.  Sharpies permanent markers also come in brown.  The color needs to be added before gluing.  There are other color options, but whatever you use, it just needs to soak through the paper completely.  

 

The first step is to add color to the paper while it is still a full sheet. Add color to both sides.  I used black since some mast hoops were tarred.

Cut thin strips of paper.  The width of these strips will vary per the finished size of the mast hoop. For my MBLS, the strips were 2mm wide and the finished height is 1.5mm or 1.5" in scale

 

Curl one end of the paper strip to start the wrapping. 

 

The MBLS mast is 5mm, so I used a 6mm dowel for form the mast hoops.  Wax the dowel to prevent hoops from sticking. 

 

Do 1.5 wraps before adding glue, add a small dab of glue to start the wrapping.  I use a bamboo skewer to apply the glue. 

Check to make sure future wraps will be straight and even.  Add glue to the next inch of strip and wrap.  Any excess glue will get squeezed forward.  Add glue to the next inch of strip and wrap.  Repeat to desired thickness.     

Take your time with wrapping, if the wrapping is straight and even, less sanding will be needed.  The finished size of the MBLS are 1.5mm.

 

At this point, the hoops have some strength, but they need more.    

Give hoops a good soaking in gap filling CA, then place on waxed paper and allow to cure for at least two hours.  

 

 

 

Finishing the hoops is straight forward:

 

Sand the ID to get rid of any excess glue. 

Sand the OD to blend the edge of the paper.   

 

Sand the top and bottom edges down to desired height,  When sanding, be sure to keep the hoop on the center of your fingertip to sand evenly.  If your wrapping is straight, you can start with a strip that is close to the finished size.   

  

I repeat the soak in gap filler to fill any new gaps and sanding.  I think it's a good idea, but it's up to you. 

 

Touch up the color and add a thin coat of glue to seal. 

 

I buffed mine for a final smooth finish. 

 

And VOILA!  You have mast rings.   

[themadchemist]

It has to be more flexible then the cherry veneer, that's for sure.
Thanks for posting.
Now to decide. Finish making cherry or make all new with a dollar bill. I some how think that $ bill hoops would be faster, and I think I like the black.

Oh well I have plenty of time to change my mine back and forth.

[hexnut]

Thanks for the mast hoop tutorial, that was great.  I'm a ways away from that yet, but something to look forward to.

[JesseLee]

Thanks for these instructions Dee Dee! Love learning something new!

[egkb]

Nice. thanks for that Dee_Dee.. now where do I get Dollar Bills.. Hmmmmmm!

 

BTW Joggling is going about as well my training to be the first person to free-dive the Marianas Trench..   Just Kiddin, I'm really only getting started 

 

All The Best

 

Eamonn