Loose ends!

[Shamrock]

Any tips what do do with the loose ends of the tackle on my Shamrock? (picture)

 

The idea I have is to cut a small (1/2" x1/2") piece of plastic from an ice cream box. Drill a small hole to fit a toothpick. Split the end of the toothpick, insert end of tackle into split, toothpick into hole and then wind up the tackle like a pretzel. Then fix the tackle with diluted wood glue. (scetch)

After that I will place/glue the pretzel flat on the deck

 

Any better ideas??

 

Shamrock

 

[Modeler12]

One way is to make rope coils separately and then tuck the loose end of the line underneath the coil.

See the following thread for details by several  people.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1310-making-rope-coils/?hl=%2Brope+%2Bcoils

[Stockholm tar]

Shamrock,

 

It's probably better, and easier, to make the coils separately off the model, and attach them when you have belayed each line to its pin. 

 

Btw, good-looking model.

[pompey2]

Shamrock

 

Here's a method that works for me.

Cut a couple of small squares form a piece of plastic sheet, those A4 paper wallets are good, provided the surface is smooth.

Take a standard dress making pin and a piece of the line

Push the pin through both bits of plastic, trapping the line beteen them and through the second hole.

Push the plastic pieces together.

wind the line applying small drops of watered down white (PVA) glue as you go.

You can geta pretty small coil and the centre hole is only a pin diameter.

After the glue has dried the plastic peels off easily and the coil can be mounted to hide the line.

 

Nick

[Sailor1234567890]

The problem with cheesed coils as you're showing there Nick are that first of all, the coil will never stay put at sea. Since the model is clearly not sailing, no sails, obviously static, this shouldn't be a problem. The other issue is that a cheesed line like that takes for ever to dry and leaves a wet spot on deck while it does so. This is bad for the deck. Yes, teak should be sluiced down regularly but keeping a damp spot on deck all the time is bad for it. Rot is virtually guaranteed to start showing up under the place where the coils are kept. I'd never cheese down a line for those reasons. It's time consuming, often imparts a twist into the line so it can't run free through a block or fairlead and to my mind is plain unseamanlike. That being said, there are many professional navies that cheese and point every line. That's they're business. My boats... never.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Sailor1234567890

[Shamrock]

Thanks to all of you. I will try out both cheesed coils (never heard the expression before) and "simple?" coils (know what you mean - when sailing in reality I always make that type - easier and faster to do)

 

This is a really nice site  - quick and great help!!

[popeye2sea]

You may want to try faking the rope down on the deck, which is probably the way a working line was laid out for running anyway. It consists of laying the rope down in long figure eights so that the half turns at the ends overlap.  Since the turns at each end are in opposite directions there are no kinks put into the rope and it will run free.  BTW the round coil is called a flemish coil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUBHtbWLmxo

Edited December 20, 2013 by popeye2sea

[jud]

Those coils are decorative only and a poor way to deal with any line, keep them off of the deck by hanging them on a pin rail or something, if you need to prepare them for running, flake them down or lay them out. Never liked to see those flat coils of line on the decks of any model. I have never seen them on the decks of the ships I rode except as decoration on the Quarter Deck or on a Knot Board.

jud

Edited December 20, 2013 by jud

[Sailor1234567890]

My point exactly jud. Fake the coil out ready for running but even then only if the line is about to be used. If the ship is at sea, the place for line is coiled on a pin somewhere. Easily accessible, no locking hitches and ready to drop on deck capsized (upside down so the running part is coming off the top of the coil, not from beneath it). Flat coils or cheesed lines are purely decorative and serve no practical purpose. Everything in a ship must be practical. Beauty will follow. Take the clipper ship for example.

[Modeler12]

For ships with full sails and 'running' gear the coils may not be all that practical, as some of you pointed out.

However, for our models, and as far as I am concerned, the looks of them may not always present the 'actual'.

Is that bad practice???

 

There was a heated discussion about whether or not a line on a belaying pin should have a 'hitch' on top. Again, purists said and showed old sketches of lines that were thrown across the pins.

Perhaps that is what was done in those days; but is that what I want to show on a ship model???

No, thank you.

If a line ends up lying on deck looking like a lost hair, I rather tuck it in with a coil.

[jud]

Any tips what do do with the loose ends of the tackle on my Shamrock?

  That was the question.

  Those  little flat coils are obviously the accepted norm in modeling, it is not the norm aboard a working vessel. If your model is intended to portray the way it was, within your ability to model the available reference material, then it only makes sense to me that how the rope is made up would seem to have some importance.

   How others deal with their rope is their right, it won't effect me other than I'll notice obvious deviations from how it was done when I look at their work. That doesn't  prevent me from admiring the work, skill and knowledge the model probably reveals.

jud

[JerseyCity Frankie]

The flat spiral coils in question are known as Flemish Coils and they do have a place on sailing vessels. They are used in places where there are a combination of factors: a long line that needs to be stowed yet instantly available if needed and no good place to hang them, they are also best in places where there is a lot of foot traffic as they are the only type of coil that can be trod upon without ruining them. They are in fact deigned to be walked over although it is likely not encouraged. The yacht your building would have had a large crew which would mean every space on deck would see a lot of foot traffic. Also with no bullwarks there aren't too many convenient places to hang a round coil and keep it off the deck so the Flemish Coil is your only answer. Some long lines are flaked down in figure eights as suggested, but they make a larger "footprint" on the deck and when accidentally kicked they lose their shape and their ability to run without fowling becomes suspect. The Flemish Coil does soak up water and hold it against the wooden deck and that is bad for the deck so if the vessel is not underway the coils would be made up and hung off the deck. The Flemish Coil's precise form takes a lot of effort to get right and they do look "fancy" and on a working vessel they are considered "yachty"-a pejorative term- but you will see them at any marina being used as the best way to keep the long ends of docklines from cluttering up the docks making them unsafe to walk upon. Picture the tackle on a cannon: the lines are long and they can't be made to pins on the bullwarks so they are either gasket coiled and hung on the gun itself or they are Flemished on deck. Incidentally the Flemish coil is always laid in a clockwise direction with the bitter end at the center.

Edited December 21, 2013 by JerseyCity Frankie

[Modeler12]

Jud, I don't see this 'yacht' as being a 'working vessel' and as JSF above mentioned it was and still is very common to use coils on the deck.

I have used the coils for the numerous gun tackles on my model and I couldn't see any other way to handle those lines. If that was not the way it was done on the original 'too bad' is my view.

[Shamrock]

Oooops!!

Quite a lot of answers - I followed the idea to make it seaworhty instead of nicelooking flemish coils and got very satisfied with the result. I will post some pictures later on. There is no use to start a thread about building in progress since the model is finished except for the rope coils and the sails.

Thanks to all of you!!!

[capnharv2]

Jay,

 

LIke you and many others, I have Flemished the lines on my Connie's carronades. But in actual practice (during battle), how were these lines handled? They certainly didn't have time to coil them, yet I don't know what they did with the excess line.

 

Any thoughts what the lines looked like once the cannon or carronades were run out?

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

[jud]

Go over to the Victory site and look at their gun deck section.

jud

[Modeler12]

Jay,

 

LIke you and many others, I have Flemished the lines on my Connie's carronades. But in actual practice (during battle), how were these lines handled? They certainly didn't have time to coil them, yet I don't know what they did with the excess line.

 

Any thoughts what the lines looked like once the cannon or carronades were run out?

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

Indeed, Harvey, for battle ships like the Connie, I am sure the lines were not neatly coiled on deck. My guess is that they were loosely tossed around a pin when not in use. However, during a battle there were probably two (or more) guys who handled these lines to reposition the cannon.

 

I coiled mine just for looks, I guess. Even the USS Constitution in Boston has the lines cut short and wrapped around the lanyards. Probably to keep the tourists from tripping.

[jud]

From HMS Victory Modlers Knowledge Repository and Forum

 

This may answer your question Bosun.

http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/0487.html

5th. Run out your guns.
" With the tackles hooked to the upper-bolts of the carriage, the gun is to be bowsed out as close as possible, without the assistance of crows or handspecs; taking care at the same time to keep the breeching clear of the trucks, by hawling it through the rings; it is then to be bent so as to run clear when the gun is fired. When the gun is out, the tackle-falls are to be laid along-side the carriages in neat fakes, that when the gun, by recoiling, overhauls them, they may not be subject to get foul, as they would if in a common coil.

Cheers,

Maurice

 

hope no rules are broken by this, if so I or the moderators will remove this post.

jud

[Shamrock]

Hi

decided to more businesslike coils than the Flemish type. This is how it looks.