HMS Bounty by Captain Al - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Scale 1:48

[Mike Dowling]

What's happening Al. I'm getting lonely!

[fifthace]

He's taken a sabbatical

 

Al, a question for you though when you are about...when I do this one I plan on mounting it on two brass mounts with threaded bolts recessed in the keel...how much of a pain is this going to be with regards to them being visible ?

[Captain Al]

Dom, I'm not on sabbatical, just tied to my work table. More on that later, but to answer your question re mounting bolts if I can.... if I understand you right you want to countersink the head of the bolts into the keel and leave the shank/threads extending, so you can then fit these bolts down into the brass mount. I can only visualize two issues. (1) countersinking the bolts in the keel obviously requires drilling holes into the keel. So I wonder how wide is the keel and what size are the heads of the bolts? If there is plenty of space to drill or bore these countersink holes, then its only a question of how deep and if you really want to do it right and have a flat bottom hole. In all the woodworking I have done (not really that much, but enough), I have never gone out and bought the right bits for countersinking. You use what is called (here in the States) a Forstner bit and it drills out a flat bottom hole. I normally just take a bit with a slightly larger diameter as the head of the screw or bolt I'm countersinking and leave it at that. (2) you'll probably want to use some epoxy in the countersink to hold the bolt firm. Otherwise it doesn't seem like a pain to me. But I wonder if I even am seeing what you're going to do correctly. If I do, then I also wonder if the model can just sit on brass rods that extend into the keel. Again, same issue, how wide is the keel?

[Captain Al]

I have been diligently working on the interior cabins, framing in doors and windows. Nothing too mind bending, but some math involved in getting the spacing correct so the windows and doors wind up equal in width. I discovered an interesting problem after I had wracked my brain on it and concluded that my kit's instructions and parts list were once again full of it. It seemed that when I had cut my horizontal frames and laid them out on the ply in between the 7-8 vertical frames, that I kept running out of space. The far end frames were supposed to fit in directly under and over the tips of the long horizontals at the top and bottom. But they kept extending over this point. I made it work by shortening the partial horizontals, which then meant my windows and doors were slightly narrower than they should have been. Figured with the short rations Cpt Bligh allowed, no-one would have trouble getting in and out. It took doing this on 2 of the bulkheads before it dawned on me that the size of the wood I was using was not the 1.5 x 1.5 the plans called for, but more like 2 x 2. When this half mm was multiplied x 8 vertical frames it meant 4 mm more space was required. If my wood is 2 x 2, then they gave me no 1.5s cause mine is the smallest in the kit. So there. The other thing that's been biding my time is the windows and how to cross hatch the acetate. I took Mike's suggestion and went and got a wet erase marker. After scoring the acetate I rubbed this ink into the grooves and wiped off the excess. Not totally satisfactory; not visible as much as I'd like, but still its OK. I will post some pics soon of the work I've done to date.

[Desert_Sailor]

My issue was with the interior door windows. The openings seem way to large for a single pane of glass. Glass was very expensive. I figure they probably used lots of small panes like in a stained glass window. That way, they only had to replace the broken element.    My solution was to print on acetate film ( the kind used with in overhead projectors ( assuming anyone still does!!))  a diamond pattern to simulate the panes and their frames.  I cut the acetate to size and cemented it in place.. The effect worked pretty good (IMHO) and to scale.

 

What do you all think..?

 

 

[Captain Al]

Darn it.  Just lost a long (winded) reply to you CF.  I'll make it shorter this time.  I really like your look better than mine.  Shows the cross hatching much more distinctly.  I will keep it in mind next batch of windows (I only have one left on this build though).  You're also correct re size of real windows on Bounty.  At 48:1 scale they would have been 32" x 32" and that would have been a huge fragile pane of glass back then.  I thought about dividing those panes in quarters with slivers of wood but decided enough detail was enough.  Two questions for you CF, first, how do you make the cross hatch pattern on a computer?  What program?  I don't have Paint anymore.  I was thinking of Excel with grid lines pretty tight and thin.  Then after printing on the acetate I would cut the windows out on the diagonal.  Second Q: it looks like you followed the pictures precisely when you laid the ramin lining into the soffits, leaving a border of ply showing.  I couldn't figure whether the instruction pictures were done that way for illustration, showing that the ramin goes on top of the ply, or if there was a reason for the exposed ply.  I took pains to cut out and sand down (and sand down, and sand down) my little squares of ramin so they would just fit into the soffits and expose no ply.  That alone has added a couple hours to building these darn structures.  I'll post some good pics tonight or tomorrow morning.  For now, UCLA is playing Florida in a must win game in a few minutes.  Go Bruins!

[fifthace]

Hiya Al. Look forward to seeing some photo's of your progress.

 

To answer your answer, it doesn't matter the width of the keel as when fitting mounting bolts you don't drill. You cut out a T shape in the hull and slot the bolt and head in that way, with the thread sticking out the bottom, and seal with epoxy.

[Mike Dowling]

Al, what a brilliant solution for the windows! They look excellent. I am quite envious as I told you the OcCre version doesn't have any.

[Captain Al]

Well here are the long promised pictures and proof that I haven't been shirking my duties. There's not much to add in the way of commentary that I didn't tell you yesterday. I would like your opinion(s) on a couple things. If you look at the pictures of the stern bulkhead (framed in dark walnut) you'll see a strip of 1.5 x 1.5 at its base. I haven't glued any of these parts in yet so I can discard that "footer" if I want. I put it there cause otherwise there isn't much gluing surface to hold this bulkhead in place. Only the narrow upper line at the tip where it meets the ply of the cabin floor above. Do you think this is an intrusion on aesthetics? Its probably unauthentic but that's not my objective. You will also notice in one of the other bulkheads that there is a 4 mm wide strip of mahagony running lengthwise at the top. I was having a hell of a time accurately cutting to 90 degrees the 4 mm spacers that the plans called for -- eight of them to continue the 8 vertical frames. So I finally decided to insert this piece cause it fit so perfectly right out of my scrap heap. Finally, should I sand and varnish the rawmin soffits? The camera sure emphasizes things (like the defect in one of the soffit's lining) that the eye really doesn't pick up.

[Mike Dowling]

My word you have been a busy chap and I must say what a brilliant job you are doing. It looks quite superb and far more detailed than the OcCre. I wish in advance as I am sure you do that more of the interior labours would show in the end but I rather fear that it only us who will know the amount of time and effort involved. You'll be catching me up in a minute - this planking is going to take forever and I get two goes at it!!!

[Captain Al]

Thanks Mike. I don't know about catching up though. I like the idea of staying in your wake (in auto racing they'd call it slip streaming) and learning from you.

[Desert_Sailor]

I just used Google Images  with the search parameter  "crosshatch" 

Picked the one i liked, adjusted the size, printed, and cut..

 

I made the line thickness based on stained glass window techniques.  

Why make things complicated..?

[Mike Dowling]

I have just been looking at another build of your boat on a different web site and yours really is a good deal more detailed than mine. I did notice however that you will get off rather lightly with the planking as very little of your starboard side gets done because there is so much open. I seem to be picking up tips from you too late! I know it is a very long way ahead yet but, are you going to paint the upper part of your ship or leave it plain? Mine is supposed to be painted but I am veering towards not doing so.

[fifthace]

I just used Google Images  with the search parameter  "crosshatch" 

Picked the one i liked, adjusted the size, printed, and cut..

 

I made the line thickness based on stained glass window techniques.  

Why make things complicated..?

 

Was thinking about this earlier...I run my own business in web graphic design...if someone told me the exact dimensions they needed a pattern to be, including the dimensions of each cross hatch, I can knock up a transparent .png that will print quite nicely without that "step" effect...I could even add, if the scale allows, highlights and shadows to give it a more 3D appearance.

[Captain Al]

Give it a try Dom. I only have but one window left on this build, but for the future it sounds like a great way to do it. Also thanks DS for the google images search idea. I don't know what forum you could post the .png file to, but it might help lots of other builders.

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Al,

 

how do you make the cross hatch pattern on a computer?  What program?  I don't have Paint anymore.

 

 

Here's a FREE download of a program called Paint.net - I've been using it for years. There are a lot of Tool Upgrades available as well (I can't remember where at the moment).

 

  Danny

[Captain Al]

Thanks Dan. Thanks for keeping on site. I hope you're doing well and feeling well.

[Captain Al]

Well I'm in the home stretch of building these cabin bulkheads. I decided to take a break from cutting tiny lengths of 2x2 and rawmin lining and turn to something more challenging. Like putting the door handles (rings) on. The first thing I discovered is that the rings supplied by AL are way to large. At 48:1 scale they would have been 10" in diameter. Even the Bride of Frankenstein didn't have such huge knockers. So I did some work on the 8 or 10 that I'll need to put in and below is the result. The top 3 are as they came in the kit. The next 2 I made a bit smaller by doubling over the wire (like if you were to squeeze them closed too hard). The next one got even smaller by nipping off a bit of the wire using a wire cutter. And finally, the bottom two were made using a Dremel cutoff wheel to take even more of the brass wire. Size wise I like the last 2 best.

 

This work wasn't all that difficult. The next step was. I decided to use all the rings even though I like the smallest ones best. So now I had to figure a way to drill holes in the doors which (1) didn't break through to the other side leaving a hole to fill, and (2) didn't exactly run through the hole coming from the other side of the door. AL's pictures showed the rings positioned on the doors on opposite sides (right side on the inside of the cabin and left side of the door on the outside). I decided I'd be rebellious and offset them just a little so that the eyebolts wouldn't run into each other. I tried using my #76 bit but found it was too small; too hard to push the pins through. But my next size is a 70 and I found that too big. No Goldielocks available, so I returned to the 76 bit. By this time I realized there was no way I could stop the drill short of breaking through, and also thought that if I didn't drill it all the way through then I would have to be extremely careful not to push the bolt all the way through since that would shatter the delicate rawmin lining. The pictures will show what I finally ended up with. The rings actually hide the bit of brass eyebolt that I made as fair as I could -- first with the wire cutter and then with a grinding bit in the Dremel.

[Captain Al]

Something happened before I got to the questions I have so I started a new reply to myself.

 

After going through the whole process described above, I had to wonder if there is a better way. I doubt there are going to be too many instances where door handles are to be put on exact opposite sides, and I'm fine with the solution I did even though there is a bit of bolt showing through. My questions really pertain to putting the eyebolts through thin veneers in the first place. If you don't poke all the way through, will two or three mm s of ply be enough to hold the bolts? If you do poke through, how best to nip off the ends and file or grind them fair? Someone on Mike's log mentioned nippers in the context of plank bending. Are there other kinds of nippers that will cut brass rod right flush to the surface? My wire cutters are pretty crude, still leaving a bit of brass standing proud. Another general question is whether most of you attach the rings to the bolts before putting them onto the wood or put the bolts into the wood and then add the rings. I find doing the rings first makes it easier.

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Al,

 

Don't "overthink" details like this - if it LOOKS GOOD then it IS GOOD . Yours looks good .
 

 

Another general question is whether most of you attach the rings to the bolts before putting them onto the wood or put the bolts into the wood and then add the rings.

 

 

I usually attach the rings to the eyebolts first, but if the circumstances dictate otherwise I'll go the other way (e.g. maybe I need to seize a line through the ring - then it's definitely better the other way around).

 

Danny

[AntonyUK]

Hello Al.

Read your build log through today..

In the start you were not quite sure on your capabilitys to build the AL Bounty.

Since then your conference has grown like the model and she is something to be proud of

Your are looking at the build as if you have been scratch building for many years. With solutions that many on this forum would not have thought of.

And a big thank you for posting the log as its nice to read and watch modeller and ship grow together.

 

Regards Antony.

[Mike Dowling]

_{Hi Al, I can only agree with the last two posts, you are doing an amazing job. I think you said you were obsessive and I think you were right! I use what I think are called side cutters for cutting the eyebolts. I can't say they cut absolutely flush but pretty darn close.}

_{I had the same problems with the rings OcCre supplied, they were all too big and I had to make my own, you see I too can be obsessive!}

_{Keep up the good work.}

[Captain Al]

Thanks all for the kind words. Anthony, you're right about viewing this more as a scratch build. The work on fixing problems, adding something structural that AL didn't provide, making it a bit more to scale and authentic, those are the things that I like to do the most and which keep me glued (ha ha, I don't use CA) to my seat for hours. I hope when I get to the planking of the hull I don't ruin a good thing.

[Captain Al]

Talk about hours of work.   I guess no-one said this was going to be easy.  I think challenging was the operative word.

I spent 9 hours yesterday figuring out and solving the problem of why my beautiful little cabin would not fit under the beam and why it did not lay flush against the two outer beams it is supposed to glue to.  Problem stemmed from the use of 2 x 2 material when the whole thing was engineered for 1.5  x 1.5.  At least I had not yet glued the cabin together, so my destruction work was kept to a minimum.

 

Just when I was thinking the cabin was done, with all 3 bulkheads finished inside and outside, and I was figuring out whether to glue them together first and then glue the whole thing onto the ship, or whether to glue into the boat piece by piece.  I realized the second wouldn't work cause of the little inserts, so now I'm ready to rig up a square jig and glue together.  As I usually do, I thought I would one last time check all things out and how future pieces would go in when the cabin was there.  Only the overhead beams for the main deck would be impacted so I went and popped out those 3.  Holding each bulkhead in place and placing the beam into its respective crotch, I found that (1) the beams 34 and 36 that the bulkheads glue to would not lay down flat on the crotch (knee might sound better), and (2) that beam 35 that runs through the center of the cabin did not square up with the notch in the rear bulkhead.

 

It took some time, hours to be honest, to realize that the pictures I was looking at as to how it went together had a pretty bad perspective on it.  I had been thinking for days, while building this piece, that the whole thing would sit just under the fore and aft beams.  I thought that the only gluing surfaces would be on the surfaces that met the frames and of course on the underside where it sits on the deck.  After looking at pictures, plans (no luck here) and taking measurements over and over again (my dilemma was that I had not in any way altered the dimensions of the ply backing) to assure myself that the overall dimensions of the cabin were correct, I was becoming quite frustrated.  Then I reversed the process.  Instead of holding in the cabin bulkheads and trying to place the beams on top of them, I first placed the beams in place where I knew they ultimately had to sit, and then looked closely at the bulkheads.  That's when I realized the bulkheads were going to sit up against the beams and not under them.  And that's when I realized that those darn pieces of 2x2 (instead of 1.5s) framing had made the upper horizontal frames 1.5mm too high.  There was supposed to be enough raw ply left exposed so the piece would sit flush next to the beam.  Instead my door and window frames were contacting the beam. 

 

I had two possible ways to fix this.  The first was to cut a dado into the beams.  There was plenty of wood to do that, but my practice runs using the dremel and a chisel and (I even thought maybe) a file/sandpaper, were useless.  I knew I'd destroy the beams in the process.  So the second and most practical way was to remove that top 2x2 framing.  That's what I did.  But stupidly I forgot that the glue could probably be loosened with either alcohol or even water, so I proceed to remove them by whittling them away bit by bit with an exacto knife.  Dumbness on my part in several ways caused me this all day work.  I had made adjustments to the horizontal  size of the doors and windows when I discovered I was using larger wood than called for.  But I didn't make the same adjustment vertically.  Actually to save some face, those pieces were in place before I discovered the wood size issue.  But not to have seen how the piece would eventually lie in the ship prior to building the pieces was inexcusable -- and won't happen again.....at least for a few more days.

 

Oh, my last problem was the beam that wouldn't sit in the notch.  At first I thought it was cause my frames were off.  Lining them up with a t square across the keel I found they lined up quite well.  So I think the problem comes down to just a minute amount of warp in the underlying ply.  I simply cut the notch open a millimeter and now I think that works.

 

So I am ready once again to glue up the cabin and then glue it in.  But I think I'll varnish it in pieces and then glue it up.  Maybe not (as he thinks aloud)... if I get varnish on any gluing surface (of which there is scaresly enough to begin with), that will inhibit the glue.  So maybe glue up and then varnish. 

 

Here's a couple pictures of my "bashed" cabin bulkheads.  An earlier post showed them in the before condition.

[Mike Dowling]

Oh my, you are getting more than your fair share of problems. I only had a little bit of 'jiggling' to do to get mine to fit between beams etc. Mind you your cabins are far more detailed than mine, I just hope that all your hard work and efforts will show in the end.

I am still fighting strakes, something I am getting used to as their is still so much to do. Dom doesn't like my straight planking but it is the first layer and I am only following my equally pathetic instructions! I agree with one of our colleagues out there - sometimes I wonder if we are scratch building!! Might as well for all the use the plans are. 

However my friend, neither you nor I as complete novices are going to be beaten are we!!! We will win some kind of victory in the end and, before you say it I know we are building the Bounty, not the Victory!!!

[fifthace]

Al I've not read through your entire post but just looking at the photo's things look great. Really looking forward to getting this kit myself now.

 

Can I make one suggestion though? If you look at the second photo, you will see the wood has lots of fibres, almost looks like fluff...get yourself some really fine grade sandpaper and sand over the wood before fixing it in place. Reason being is when you come to paint or stain/varnish the wood, all that burr will show up, particularly with stains.

 

It's a lesson I learned painfully some time ago

 

Other than that, keep it up

[Capt.Fisher]

Hi Captain, 
Good day everybody!

 

It's soooo good to find you in this nice forum! Nice to find soulmates at long last!

I just started the same boat some months ago and it would be very useful to keep in touch in someone who is at the same stage of construction.

 

Now that I have joined and said Hello, I'll take my time and read every single line to get better acquainted with everyone.  Then I may share some of my photos, or, even try to start my own log.

 

Hope there will be a berth onboard for me 

See you!

 

Theodor

Bulgaria

[Captain Al]

Dom, thanks for the suggestion re sanding.  I have been undecided as to whether or not to varnish this cabin structure but my wife makes the final call and she said absolutely.  So yeah, I need to sand off the roughness.  I will do the varnishing as well prior to installing.

 

Theodor:  Welcome to MSW and to our Bounty community.  Are you actually building the kit by Artesiana Latina or Bounty by another kit manufacturer?  There are a lot of Bounty posts on MSW, most of them being other manufacturers.  But there are some good ones by AL that have been posted.  You should also look at the others even though they may not be exact.  Bounty by Mike Dowling is in progress and has good photos and explanations of do's and don'ts.  You'll learn a lot by just looking at other builds.  Is this really your first post?  Been a member since last Sept and not had any questions?  That's doing quite well, and independently at that.  I hope you start your own build log and I look forward to seeing your progress.  Have you done other ships in the past or is this your first attempt at ship modeling?

[fifthace]

You should also look at the others even though they may not be exact.  Bounty by Mike Dowling is in progress and has good photos and explanations of do's and don'ts.

oi what about mine lol

[Captain Al]

Didn't mean to slight you Dom.     Theodor, if your reading this, Fifthace has one of the best going.  And moreover, Dom is one of the most helpful guys around.