HMS Victory by Einstein Taylor - Mamoli - Scale 1:90

[EinsteinTaylor]

Even with the smaller hooks the blocks are virtually touching each other. Not really sure what to do.

[EinsteinTaylor]

Fourth attempt. I think this is as good as it's going to get.

[EinsteinTaylor]

Need to tighten up the fraps a bit but didn't want to glue until I got down feedback from the experts here.

[EinsteinTaylor]

I don't mean to flood the log but I really want to get this part right and get feedback before I glue things.

[gjdale]

Hi Sean,

 

The smaller blocks are definitely an improvement and they look okay with the frapping. The only other thing I could suggest would be to have a look at Dafi's photo etch material that he supplies for a 1:100 scale Victory. I would think that the scale difference would work in your favour here. Might be worth investigating/considering.

Edited December 21, 2014 by gjdale

[EinsteinTaylor]

Everything just kind of lain in loosely to see what it might look like. Of course the recoil rope will be ran through the rings in the final placing.

With the frappings tightened and the tails coiled it might work. Don't know. Thoughts?

[gjdale]

It looks to me that the rear tackle (recoil rope?) isn't quiite long enough. I believe it should be able to bring the muzzle of the gun inboard (but I could be wrong here). I omitted this line on my model.

[EinsteinTaylor]

I think you're right. I think I'm going to pull that out closer to midhsip.

[GuntherMT]

I haven't actually done any cannons yet, so take this with a grain of salt, but it looks to me like the ring bolts on the carriages are over-sized, which is contributing to your clearance issues with the tackle.  Might see if you can make some much smaller ring bolts.

 

I also agree that the haul-in tackle should be able to pull the gun back far enough inside to reload.

[EinsteinTaylor]

I think you're exactly right about the ring bolts. I've been doing some prototypes and think I have a technique with my round nose pliers that will let me get a much smaller eye.

 

I would love it if you guys could check back tomorrow and provide any feedback.

[EinsteinTaylor]

Just realized a bonehead blunder. With the guns run out the side tackle would not be frapped but would instead be laid up next to the carriage.

 

Good thing nothing has been glued yet.

[gjdale]

I agree with the ringbolt size comment Sean.  If you can source/make some much smaller ones, I think that will help significantly.

 

And you're right about the side tackles too..........

 

At least once you get the test piece right, you'll be set for the remaining 99 guns!!!!!

 

[GuntherMT]

On the eyebolts, they are extremely easy to make (even I can do them!).  As they generally don't really need to hold a 'real' load, I am using copper wire here to demonstrate, but you could do the same thing with steel or brass (but then you'd need to blacken it somehow).

 

Get the appropriate sized wire and a 'round thing' the size you want for the internal diameter of the ringbolt.  Here I've got a toothpick and some 26 ga. blackened copper wire.

 

Trim off a short bit of wire and make it into a loop about the same diameter as the 'round thing'.

 

Put the loop over the 'round thing' and using some pliers, twist the ends of the wire together, like so:

 

Remove the newly formed ringbolt from the 'round thing'.

 

Trim the stem to an appropriate length for whatever you need to stick it into.  This can be as short as you want, but if you get too short you'll want to secure the twist with a drop of CA or something so it doesn't come loose when you trim it.

 

Insert the new eyebolt into a hole drilled into the wood.  If it's good, use glue!

 

Here I made another smaller one with the same 26 ga. wire.

 

And then just to show how flexible this is, using all the same tools and some 30 ga. wire I made a tiny one.

 

With a slight bit of practice and some care you can make them look really nice, and once they are glued in place, nobody will know that they aren't the perfect little brass eyebolts that come in kits that have been blackened.

 

Happy ship building!

[EinsteinTaylor]

Thanks for all the comments. Shrunk the ring bolts way down. Also spaces them a little further from the carriage.youll have to picture it with deck coils since it's not glued down yet but any comments will be appreciated.

[gjdale]

That looks way better Sean! My only query now would be the size of the line in that aft tackle set-up (recoil line?). To my eye it looks to be a tad large for the scale - have you done a conversion from actual size to scale size to check? Otherwise, it could just be my eyes that need checking!

[EinsteinTaylor]

I have not but I totally see what you are saying. Does the starboard tackle look closer? I have a few different threads I'm working with to see what gives me the best rope.

[GuntherMT]

Looks much better I think.  I agree that the in-haul tackle rope could be smaller.  Models (for whatever reason) tend to have the rope oversized, but I think erring on the side of smaller looks better overall.

 

I have no idea what the correct size (real or in scale) is for the Victory.  I imagine it's somewhere on this forum though!

[shihawk]

I went through a similiar quandry a few weeks ago , part of the problem is that if the ropes are not kept taught they tend to have a mind of their own and do not lay natural looking  You can i suppose glue them into a natural shape but it,s not easy  .I therefore chose to tie the ropes up tight  . i agree if the cannon is pushed out the side tackle should be loose but how do you get it to sit natural looking in that state ?? Although my Victory is the 1:72 the same principal applies so feel free to take a look on my log to see how it look,s It may at least give you some ideas of how not to do it !!! .I,m sorry i can,t give you a link but my computer skills are limited but it,s Billings Victory ,wood finish . i will be interested to see what you come up with 

 

Boyd

[EinsteinTaylor]

After many attempts the first gun is in place. Much better than where I started. Thanks for all the help from everyone here.

[EinsteinTaylor]

I'm having second thoughts about the rope coil on the rear tackle and considering popping it off. Any opinions?

Edited December 23, 2014 by EinsteinTaylor

[gjdale]

I'd have to say that I'm not a fan of that style of rope coil Sean, except for "Admiral's Rounds" - it's just not consistent with a "working" display.

[EinsteinTaylor]

Yeah I just don't think I'm feeling it. The nice part about scratch building those parts is you don't lose kit pieces if you change your mind.

 

What do you think of the rest of the gun? Brutal honesty is perfectly fine if needed. Always trying to get better.

[gjdale]

Sean, as you asked for "brutal honesty", I would say the guns look pretty good, but I still think that all of the tackle looks over size for the scale. I think I used 2mm blocks for the side tackle. I know that Syren does some in this size. It might not sound like much difference, but a 3mm block is 50% larger than a 2mm block. Sorry, but you did ask.........

[EinsteinTaylor]

I greatly appreciate the feedback. I'll take a look at Syren. I was able to get 2mm blocks for the single sheave but the smallest double sheave I could find were 3mm but maybe I just didn't look in the right place.

 

I used my razor saw to cut the ends off of the 3mm block to try and shorten them up some.

 

Thanks so much for the feedback.

Edited December 24, 2014 by EinsteinTaylor

[EinsteinTaylor]

I was able to take a 3mm single sheave block and make it into a double sheave block to see what kind of difference it made.

 

What do you think?

[GuntherMT]

Another thing to consider - the big rope that takes the recoil (the name eludes me at the moment) should be long enough that the gun can be pulled back far enough to load it.  It's hard for me to tell from the latest photo if it's that long, but in the earlier one it looks a bit short.  On the other hand, it's one of those things where you probably want to adjust it to 'look good' as if there is too much loose rope and it's too stiff it can look bad on the model.

 

On the block size, it's very difficult to see them in that picture due to focus and angle (at least for me), so can't really judge the appearance.  I'd try to find good photo's of the real ship, and compare them for myself to decide how they look to me, if it were my model.  I would assume that there are lots of photo's of the real thing available for the Victory.

[EinsteinTaylor]

On that recoil rope it actually doesn't have that slack on it on the real thing from the pictures I have seen. It looks like it is just tied with a simple overhand knot. My assumption is so that it can easily be loosened after firing.

[shihawk]

My thoughts on the rope coil is that the back tackle is already fully extended so why would there be a long coil of rope unused , i know i cut mine off but think i need to revisit and tidy up  .Im on 1:72 scale and still opted for 2mm blocks on the tackle  ,not sure if authenticly accurate but again i thought they looked better ,which has always been my rule of thumb !! I know on pics of the real ship the blocks do look big ? I think your cannons look great and remember even the one,s that will be seen on this deck will not be in full view like those on the upper deck .

[gjdale]

Hi Sean,

 

I've just gone and dug out my AOTS book on Victory and it tells me (pg 18) that the gun tackle blocks were all 11" (both side and train tackle). At 1:90 scale that works out at 3mm almost exactly, so your blocks are actually correct. They just "look" too big. At the end of the day, it's your call and you are the one who has to be happy with the results.

 

By the way, the same reference tells us that the breaching rope is 9 1/2 inches (that will be circumference). I'll let you do the math to work out if yours are the correct size (though they look about right to me).

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Cheers,

[EinsteinTaylor]

Redid the side tackles to more closely resemble the real thing.

 

Removed the coil on the rear tackle. Also corrected an error that was probably not visible but was driving me nuts.

 

Thoughts? Brutal honesty?

Edited December 25, 2014 by EinsteinTaylor