uss frolick Posted January 2, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) I found this document in the National Archives, "Record Group 45,, Office of Naval records and Library, Subject File, 1775-1910." Specifically in "Box Number 139", while researching my Johnston Blakeley biography. Since it looked kinda cool, I had a copy made. Good thing I did, because I don't believe such a document appears in print elsewhere. The documents' full title is "Dimensions of Gun Furniture by Caliber and Length of the Gun, 1821-24." The authors name is not recorded. It is very long, and I almost regret volunteering to transpose it here. But the information is very useful for ship modeling, especially in larger scales. It is divided up separately for long-gun and carronades. Although it is dated 1821-24, I believe it is applicable for all navies, plus or minus at least a generation, probably more. Note on the Staff Table below. They have assumed a length for a standard long gun of the period, but long guns vary greatly in length, and since the staff length is a function of the bore, the staff will be unique to that gun. (Example: There were long nine-pounders that vary in length from five feet long to nine feet long, and the staff must be long enough to push the charge all the way back). I will be copying one page at a time, as time allows. Here it goes RAMMERS, LONG GUNS: "Rammer Heads: The Same Diameter of the Shot. One and one half the diameter of the Bore of the piece in Length. To be made of seasoned oak. With a score to receive a copper [feruly ? [A Ferrule, perhaps? This is a metal ring or cap used to strengthen a slender wooden pole] on the end next to the staff, and another for a seizing. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter Inches, Tenths 42 Pdr, 10, 5 / 6, 8 32 " 9, 6 / 6, 2 24 " 8, 7 / 5, 6 18 " 7, 9 / 5, 1 12 " 7, 0 / 4, 5 9 " 6, 3/ 4, 0 6 " 5, 5 / 3, 5 Rammers, Staff: Three diameters of the bore of the piece longer than the bore of the piece, one fourth of the bore of the piece in diameter. To be made of Ashe Wood. Caliber/Length in feet, inches / Diameter Inches, tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 11, 8 / 1, 7 32 " 10, 8 / 1, 6 24 " 9, 8 / 1, 4 18 " 8, 10 / 1, 3 12 " 7, 10 / 1, 2 9 " 7, 0 / 1, 0 6 " 6, 2 / 0, 8" Also on the same page, PASSING BOXES, LONG GUNS: "Passing Boxes Two diameters of the bore of the piece in length and the diameter of the bore of the piece in the clear. To be made of leather, three parts, tanned [?]. They are to be slung with green hide, laid up as a piece of rattling. the cover to overlap two-fifths, the diameter of the bore of the piece. To be rivitted with copper rivits with a piece of poplar wood half an inch thick fixed in the bottom. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter in the Clear, Inches, Tenths 42 Pdr, 14, 0 / 7, 0 32 " 12, 8 / 6, 4 24 " 11, 6 / 5, 8 18 " 10, 6 / 5, 3 12 " 9, 4 / 4, 7 9 " 8, 4/ 4, 2 6 " 7, 4 / 3, 7" Edited January 3, 2014 by uss frolick WackoWolf, hexnut, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Next page. This document is not bound, nor are the pages numbered. I am listing them in the order given to me twenty years ago. Since all the Gun's dimensions are listed together separately from the Carronade's, I will assume that this is still in some logical order. SPONGE BLOCK, LONG GUN: [Note: NOT Sponge Bob!] "Sponges, Blocks, The same diameter of the shot of the caliber below the caliber [of the piece]. [if ] the sponge is intended [to be] Viz. a 32-pounders sponge, [then the] blocks ought to be the diameter of a 24 pounder shot. One and two thirds the diameter the diameter of the bore of the piece in length. To be made of a poplar wood with a secret worms. [i don't know what a 'secret worm' is, but the carronade's sponge block doesn't have one. Maybe he's a friend of Sponge Bob.] Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter in the Clear, Inches, Tenths 42 Pdr, 11, 6 / 6, 2 32 " 10, 6 / 5, 6 24 " 9, 6 / 5, 1 18 " 8, 7 / 4, 5 12 " 8, 7 / 4, 0 9 " 7, 0 / 3, 5 6 " 6, 1 / 3, 2" SPONGE STAFF, LONG GUN:"Sponges, Staffs, Three diameters of the bore of the piece longer than the bore of the piece [in Length - important omission!] One fourth the Diameter of the bore of the piece in Diameter. To be made of Ashe Wood. Caliber/Length in feet, inches / Diameter Inches, tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 11, 8 / 1, 7 32 " 10, 8 / 1, 6 24 " 9, 8 / 1, 4 18 " 8, 10 / 1, 3 12 " 7, 10 / 1, 2 9 " 7, 0 / 1, 0 6 " 6, 2 / 0, 9" [Note: Above Identical to rammer staff dimensions, except for 6 pounders.] SPIKES FOR TOMPIONS, LONG GUN: [i'm not sure what this is ... Perhaps the tompion was hammered so hard in place to keep the water out, that they needed a chisel to remove it?] "Spikes, for Tompions, One and a half the diameter of the bore of the piece in Length. One eighth the diameter of the bore of the piece in Diameter, with a smooth round head a narrow chisel end, a little turned up." Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter in the Clear, Inches, Tenths 42 Pdr, 10, 5 / 9, 0 32 " 9, 6 / 8, 0 24 " 8, 7 / 7, 0 18 " 7, 9 / 6, 0 12 " 7, 0 / 6, 0 9 " 6, 3/ 5, 0 6 " 5, 5 / 5, 0" Edited January 2, 2014 by uss frolick mtaylor and dafi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) BITT SCREWS, LONG GUN: "Gun Furniture Continued. Bitt Screw, The screw to be two thirds the diameter of the bore of the piece in Length Two thirds of an inch in diameter. To be made of German Steel. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter in the Clear, Inches 42 Pdr, 4, 6 / 2 32 " 4, 2 / 2 24 " 3, 8 / 2 18 " 3, 4 / 2 12 " 3, 0 / 2 9 " 2, 8 / 2 6 " 2, 4 / 2 " BITT HANDLES, LONG GUN: "Bitt Handles The handles, two thirds the diameter of the bore of the piece in length To be made of seasoned oak, in the shape of a butchers steel handle The bitt is to come through the handle and rivit on the upper part Let the rivit be countersunk, with a copper firuly [A Ferrule, perhaps ? This is a metal ring or cap used to strengthen a slender wooden pole] on the lower part of the handle.] Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 4, 6 32 " 4, 2 24 " 3, 8 18 " 3, 4 12 " 3, 0 9 " 2, 8 6 " 2, 4 " WORMS, LONG GUN: "Worms, The same diameter as the shot of the piece One and three fourths the diameter of the bore of the piece in length Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter in the Clear, Inches, Tenths 42 Pdr, 5, 1 / 6, 8 32 " 4, 8 / 6, 2 24 " 4, 2 / 5, 6 18 " 3, 9 / 5, 1 12 " 3, 6 / 4, 5 9 " 3, 0/ 4, 0 6 " 2, 7 / 3, 5" Edited January 3, 2014 by uss frolick mtaylor and dafi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) SOCKETS FOR THE WORM, LONG GUNS: "Sockets of the worms, The socket one diameter of the bore of the piece in length" Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 7, 0 32 " 6, 4 24 " 5, 8 18 " 5, 3 12 " 4, 7 9 " 4, 2 6 " 3, 7 SHANKS OF THE WORMS, LONG GUNS: Shanks of the worms: The shanks two thirds of the diameter of the bore of the piece in length. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 4, 6 32 " 4, 2 24 " 3, 8 18 " 3, 4 12 " 3, 0 9 " 2, 8 6 " 2, 4 STAFFS OF THE WORMS, LONG GUNS: "Staffs for worms, Three diameters of the bore of the piece, longer than the bore of the piece. One fourth the diameter of the bore of the piece in diameter. To be made of Ashe Wood." Caliber/Length in feet, inches / Diameter Inches, tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 11, 8 / 1, 7 32 " 10, 8 / 1, 6 24 " 9, 8 / 1, 4 18 " 8, 10 / 1, 3 12 " 7, 10 / 1, 2 9 " 7, 0 / 1, 0 6 " 6, 2 / 0, 9" Edited January 3, 2014 by uss frolick mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) TOMPIONS, LONG GUNS: "Tompions, One diameter of the bore of the piece in Length, and one tenth less than the diameter of the piece in diameter, with a gradual swell, one third the diameter of the bore of the piece towards the head. To be made of white pine wood with a hole three tenths of an inch through the center lengthwise. Caliber/Length in inches, tenths of an inch / Diameter Inches, tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 7, 0 / 6, 9 32 " 6, 4 / 6, 3 24 " 5, 8 / 5, 7 18 " 5, 3 / 5, 2 12 " 4, 7 / 4, 6 9 " 4, 2 / 4, 1 6 " 3, 7 / 3, 6" TWINE, LONG GUNS: "Twine, Twine sufficient to sew and sieze the bag of a stand of grape, nineteen times the diameter of the bore of the piece in length, part whipping and part sewing twine. Caliber / Length in feet, inches, tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 11, 1, 0 32 " 10, 1, 6 24 " 9, 2 , 2 18 " 8, 4, 7 12 " 7, 5, 3 9 " 6, 7, 8 6 " 5, 10, 3" The above calculations are made on the caliber being as follows, Viz, 42 Pdr, seven inches 32 Pdr, six inches and four tenths 24 Pdr, five inches and eight tenths 18 Pdr, five inches and three tenths 12 Pdr, four inches and seven tenths 9 Pdr, four inches and two tenths 6 Pdr, 3 inches and seven tenths and the shot, two tenths of an inch less than the bore of the piece. The rules for breechings, blocks, Hooks, and thimbles, and tackle falls are not sufficiently accurate to have them made by but by adding or diminishing a few tenths accordingly to the discretions of the gunner, they will answer the purpose. The passing boxes are intended to hold one cartridge." Edited January 3, 2014 by uss frolick dafi and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyshipwright Posted January 3, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 3, 2014 Hello Mr Frolick. Outstanding sir and will come in handy. Am quite sure sir that a lot of modelers will find this information very very usefull such as myself. Once again thank you sir and Happy New Year. Gary uss frolick 1 Quote HMS Montague/Alfred class by Gary B 74 gun ship built in 1779 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I really am staring to think these may be out of exact order ... HANDSPIKES, LONG GUNS: [Duh. Carronades don't need handspikes, if you think about it ...] "handspikes, For 42 and 32 Pounders, ten diameters of the bore of the piece in length [For] 24 and 18 pounders, eleven diameters of the bore of the piece in length [For] 12, 9 and 6 pounders, twelve diameters of the bore of the piece in length They are to be made of seasoned Hickory The plates, one and two thirds the diameter of the bore of the piece in length, and on each side if required. Caliber/ Length in feet, Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 5, 10, 0 32 " 5, 4, 0 24 " 5, 3, 8 18 " 4, 10, 3 12 " 4, 8, 4 9 " 4, 2, 4 6 " 3, 8, 4 HOOKS AND THIMBLES FOR CHASE GUNS, LONG GUNS: [Again, duh. "Fire the chase carronades!"] "Hooks and thimbles for chase guns, One and one tenth the diameter of the bore of the piece, from the back of the hook to the eye. [And apparently as an afterthought] And sufficiently strong for their length. [i would hope so!] Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 15, 0 32 " 13, 7 24 " 12, 4 18 " 11, 3 12 " 10, 1 9 " 9, 0 6 " 7, 9 HOOKS AND THIMBLES FOR TACKLES, LONG GUNS. "Hooks and thimbles for tackles One and one third the diameter of the bore of the piece, from the back of the hooks to the eyes. And sufficiently strong for their lengths. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 9, 5 32 " 8, 5 24 " 7, 7 18 " 7, 0 12 " 6, 2 9 " 5, 6 6 " 4, 9 Edited January 3, 2014 by uss frolick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) LADLE, BLOCK, LONG GUNS: "Gun furniture continued, Ladle, Blocks, The same length and diameter as the rammer heads, and scored so as to receive the thickness of copper, the length of half the caliber, at the end upon which the copper ladle is to be nailed. To be made of Oak. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 10, 5 / 6, 8 32 " 9, 6 / 6, 2 24 " 8, 7 / 5, 6 18 " 7, 9 / 5, 1 12 " 7, 0 / 4, 5 9 " 6, 3/ 4, 0 6 " 5, 5 / 3, 5 COPPERS FOR LADLES, LONG GUNS: "Copper for Ladles, The copper for ladles, ought to be made, one ninth of an inch thick. It's length is three calibers. It's length, when unfolded, is two calibers. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter Inches, Tenths / Thickness tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 21, 0 / 14, 0 / 1 32 " 19, 2 / 12, 8 / 1 24 " 17, 4 / 11, 6 / 1 18 " 15, 9 / 10, 6 / 1 12 " 14, 1 / 9, 4 / 1 9 " 12, 6 / 8, 4 / 1 6 " 11, 1 / 7, 4 / 1 STAFFS FOR LADLES, LONG GUNS: "Staffs for Ladles, Three diameters of the bore of the piece, longer than the bore of the piece, one fourth the diameter of the bore of the piece in diameter. To be made of Ashe Wood. [The author drew up a table, but never filled it in.] Edited January 3, 2014 by uss frolick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) MATCH TUBS, LONG GUNS: " Match Tubs, "Match Tubs: One and three fourths the diameter of the bore of the piece in height Two and one fifth the bore of the diameter of the piece is the diameter of the bottom One and three fourths the diameter of the bore of the piece is the diameter of the head. To be made of oak staves, the head and bottom of pine; 3 iron hoops; the head sunk in one inch, with three holes in it." Caliber/ Diameter of Head Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter Bottom Inches, Tenths / Height Inches, Tenths 42 Pdr, 12, 1 / 15, 4 / 12, 1 32 " 11, 2 / 14, 0 / 11, 2 24 " 10, 0 / 12, 7 / 10, 0 18 " 9, 2 / 11, 6 / 9, 2 12 " 8, 3 / 10, 3 / 8, 3 9 " 7, 2 / 9, 2 / 7, 2 6 " 6, 4 / 8, 1 / 6, 4 HEADS OF MALLETS FOR TOMPIONS, LONG GUNS: "Heads of mallets for tompions, The head four sevenths of the diameter of the bore of the piece in length, and one half the diameter of the bore of the piece in diameter. To be made of seasoned oak. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 4, 0 / 3, 5 32 " 3, 6 / 3, 2 24 " 3, 2 / 2, 9 18 " 2, 9 / 2, 7 12 " 2, 5 / 2, 4 9 " 2, 4/ 2, 1 6 " 2, 1 / 1, 9 Edited January 3, 2014 by uss frolick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) HANDLES OF MALLETS FOR TOMPIONS, LONG GUNS: "Two diameters of the bore of the piece in length. the diameter of the outer end is one fourth the diameter of the bore of the piece. The remaining part, one sixth. To be made of oak or hickory. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths / Diameter, Inner part Inches, Tenths / Diameter, Outer part Inches, Tenths 42 Pdr, 1, 2 / 1, 7 / 14, 0 32 " 1, 1 / 1, 6 / 12, 8 24 " 1, 0 / 1, 4 / 11, 6 18 " 0, 9 / 1, 3 / 10, 6 12 " 0, 8 / 1, 2 / 9, 4 9 " 0 7 / 1, 0 / 8, 4 6 " 0, 6 / 0, 9 / 7, 4" MARLINE SUFFICIENT TO QUILT A STAND OF GRAPE: "Nineteen times the diameter of the bore of the piece in length. Caliber/ Length in Feet, Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 11, 1 , 0 32 " 10, 1, 6 24 " 9, 2, 2 18 " 8, 4, 7 12 " 7, 5, 3 9 " 6, 7, 8 6 " 5, 10 , 3 " PRIMING WIRES: "Two and a half the diameter of the bore of the piece in length from the back of the eye to the point and two tenths of an inch in diameter. To be made of drawn wires. The end which forms the eye to be welded to the others The point with four squares [The last statements make little sense as written ...] Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths of an inch / Diameter Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 17, 5 / 0, 2 32 " 16, 0 / 0, 2 24 " 14, 5 / 0, 2 18 " 13, 2 / 0, 2 12 " 11, 7 / 0, 2 9 " 10, 5/ 0, 2 6 " 9, 2 / 0, 2 " Edited January 3, 2014 by uss frolick hexnut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) CAPS FOR SPONGES, LONG GUNS: Canvass before it is sewed together: Two and a half the diameter of the bore of the piece in length, and three and two-thirds the diameter of the bore of the piece in width. The piece for the bottom before it is rounded one and one quarter diameter the bore of the piece each way. To be made of No. 5 canvass, or near that number. The cap ought to be made so large that it will take a cartridge with ease. If in case the powder boy is missing, the second loader, or any other person belonging to the gun, may supply the gun with powder conveyed in the sponge cap from the scuttle to the gun. Caliber/ Length in Inches, Tenths / Width Inches, Tenths / Bottom Piece Square Inches, Tenths 42 Pdr, 17, 5 / 25, 6 / 8, 7 32 " 16, 0 / 23, 4 / 8, 0 24 " 14, 1 / 21, 2 / 7, 2 18 " 13, 2 / 19, 3 / 6, 6 12 " 11, 7 / 17, 1 / 5, 9 9 " 10, 5 / 15, 4 / 5, 5 6 " 9, 2 / 13, 5 / 4, 6" CROW BARS, LONG GUNS: For 42 and 32 pounders eight diameters on the bore of the piece in length. 24 pounders nine diameters 18 pounders, nine and a half diameters 12 pounders, ten diameters 9 pounders eleven diameters and for 6 pounders twelve and one half the diameter of the bore of the piece in length. One end with a claw and the back viced [?] up two diameters of the bore of the piece, the other end pointed with four squares. Caliber/ Length in Feet, Inches, Tenths of an inch 42 Pdr, 4, 11, 5 32 " 4, 6, 4 24 " 4, 4, 2 18 " 4, 2, 3 12 " 3, 11, 0 9 " 3, 10, 2 6 " 3, 9, 6 " Edited January 4, 2014 by uss frolick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Per Posted January 7, 2014 Share #12 Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) I just had a look at the Ordnance Instructions for the United States Navy, 1866: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19058/19058-h/19058-h.htm Where all the things needed to service and fire the guns are listed. The gunner certainly had a lot of stuff in his inventory. Per Edited January 7, 2014 by Per uss frolick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Per Posted January 7, 2014 Share #13 Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) PRIMING WIRES: "Two and a half the diameter of the bore of the piece in length from the back of the eye to the point and two tenths of an inch in diameter. To be made of drawn wires. The end which forms the eye to be welded to the others The point with four squares [The last statements make little sense as written ...] I suppose what they mean is that the point was square in section, like an old-fashioned ice pick. Makes sense if they use it to pierce the cartridge. Per Edited January 7, 2014 by Per uss frolick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted January 7, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 7, 2014 PRIMING WIRES: "Two and a half the diameter of the bore of the piece in length from the back of the eye to the point and two tenths of an inch in diameter. To be made of drawn wires. The end which forms the eye to be welded to the others The point with four squares [The last statements make little sense as written ...] This could mean that the eye was welded closed. uss frolick 1 Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share #15 Posted January 8, 2014 Thanks for the input, lads. Much more to come; just taking a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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