2nd layer of planking question

[Alzarius]

What do you use for the 2nd layer of planking to cover up the first planking mishaps?

 

Do you use the planks again? Or do you use the decking, thinner planks?

 

 

If you use the same planking strips twice, doesnt the size of 2 layers show?

 

Thanks

[Kelp]

Alzarius,

 

The second layer is usually thinner than the first.  I am currently building a kit where the first layer is made of 1.5mm x 5mm planks and the second layer is of 0.5 x 3 mm planks.  The first layer is to give strength and shape to the model.  The second layer is usually of a better quality wood and is the finish layer.  I hope this helps.

 

Don

[Alzarius]

Yes, that helps a lot

 

I am currently using 2mmx5mm so .5 would be as large as id like to go.

 

Where do you order your planks? The only good place I found was in the UK and its taking forever for my replacement planks to get here.

[HIPEXEC]

The second layer planks are very thin. On my first build, I screwed up the first planks so bad that it was a disaster. I was saved by the second, veneer planks. On my second build, I worked very hard and the first layer turned out great, Good luck.

[dgbot]

Where do you live? In tbe states you can calll the Hobby Mill.

David B

[Doreltomin]

Hello, just as Rich said, the first layer is made of unexpensive but thicker planks just to make the required shape. If incidentally your building skills are not at their best, at least you can correct the shape using either sanding for the bulging parts of filler for the hollow parts. You can even add some wooden blocks and cut them to correct shape if this better suits your needs. The only important thing is that you get a correct symmetrical shape of the hull as seen in the plans. You may check the shape by the rake of the eye or even use some templates made of cardboard to check the proper shape where your eye says things are not all right. 

 

Once this is done, you use the second layer which is only "cosmetical"; it's purpose is just to make the hull show as if done from wooden planks. Sometimes it is as thin as just 1 mm thick and is made from veneer instead of planks. Here if you sand a bit more you will get a hole in the plank so you will need to sand with caution, but the purpose of the plank being so thin is to perfectly adhere to the correct shape which you made previously.

 

Another trick is that the first layer is made of inexpensive wood, mostly fir or something like that, the second layer is made of expensive wood chosen to look as if oak (which was the wood generally used for shipbuilding) reduced to scale. Of course this does not apply to hulls which are to be painted, where the wood grain does not show, being already covered by a layer of paint. 

 

 

Hope this helps!

[Alzarius]

I messed things up bad at first, so I took it all off and started again. It looks MUCH better this time around but I do want it to look as perfect as possible.

 

dgbot, I did look at hobby milll before but they do not have mahogany, and they are also closed for the entire month of feburary according to their website. I loved the site I found but its in the UK and is taking forever for my planks to get here. Not sure I can wait another month!!! (Yes, Im impatient lol)

 

 

Thanks for the advice everyone, looks like I need to order some thin planks!!

[bushman32]

Are you building a kit that is double planked? If you are they will have wood for the 2nd layer. Take time to makes sure the hull is smooth and symmetrical. Any defects on the 1st layer will show on the 2nd layer.

[Doreltomin]

By the way, I am not so sure if mahogany is a good choice for the second layer,even if your kit used this.

 

As I have pointed previously, the trick is to find a wood which has the proper grain of oak reduced to scale. You cannot use oak to simulate oak reduced in scale, because the grain will look too coarse. You need something with finer grain. The best fit for this are fruit trees: plum, apple, pear, perhaps lemon. My favourite is plum, which grows into two different colours, one is darker and may be used for hull, the other is lighter and can be used for deck planks. 

[Alzarius]

Are you building a kit that is double planked? If you are they will have wood for the 2nd layer. Take time to makes sure the hull is smooth and symmetrical. Any defects on the 1st layer will show on the 2nd layer.

 

 

No.

 

Originally I did the planking without reading too much into it. I opened the kit and went with it. I did not do any beveling or any fairing. It looked HORRIBLE. So I ripped the planks off (CA Glue at that... messy... broke stuff). I then put in some fillers to help keep the shape and I am now planking and am a little more than halfway done. After I sand it, I think itll look nice, especially considering its my first real attempt. There are a few gaps in it, that I have tried to fill with very small shavings from the planks and it looks well and you cant see it unless you know where its at. However its still not "as perfect as I want it" and thats what I am trying to achieve. The planking is one of the biggest jobs of building these things so I just want it to look as nice as possible.

 

 

And upon ripping planks off, I am now short planks to finish the first planking. I ordered some, from the UK and I am in Tennessee. I wanted to get it finished, sand it and get it smooth and symetrical, then add a thin layer over top of it to make it look ... well "perfect" even if I cant achieve that yet lol.

 

 

I only have about 10 planks left and theres no status update on my others coming in.

[Craigie65]

Perhaps posting a few pictures in a log might allow you to get some additional advice from the planking gurus on the site. They can usually give you advice to sort most things

[Alzarius]

By the way, I am not so sure if mahogany is a good choice for the second layer,even if your kit used this.

 

As I have pointed previously, the trick is to find a wood which has the proper grain of oak reduced to scale. You cannot use oak to simulate oak reduced in scale, because the grain will look too coarse. You need something with finer grain. The best fit for this are fruit trees: plum, apple, pear, perhaps lemon. My favourite is plum, which grows into two different colours, one is darker and may be used for hull, the other is lighter and can be used for deck planks. 

 

 

Thanks again for another good reply!!

 

Do you have any other suggestions than hobby mill?

 

They look good but are quite a bit more expensive than the other place I ordered, and sadly, are closed this entire month!

 

I am currently building

 

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lat/lat22452.htm

 

San Francisco 2

[Alzarius]

Perhaps posting a few pictures in a log might allow you to get some additional advice from the planking gurus on the site. They can usually give you advice to sort most things

 

I did that, and Im almost embarassed to post this but.....

 

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/5364-san-francisco-2-by-alzarius-artesania-latina-first-build-noob/?hl=alzarius

 

The second time around (the "fixes") looks 10x better than this first attempt though. It looks nothing like it does now and Ill be updating it once I get it planked.

[Craigie65]

There are some good primers in the resources section on how to plank. We worth a read first. Takes a bit to get straight in your mind- well it did for me. But well worth the effort

[Craigie65]

There are three articles pinned to the start of the section you have posted this thread in.

[Doreltomin]

Hello Alzarius, you should take it like that, until now you just practiced planking. I am bit surprised of the dark colour of your first planking, I have expected to be something more flexible and less expensive wood like fir, which is a lighter wood.

 

I am sorry but I am not in position to suggest you a wood supply in the States as I am from Europe and have little knowledge on what you can get there. However you should try some hobby stores near you, I am sure they have wood in various sizes among other things. But for the first layer you should look for the cheapest type of wood, not of cheapest quality as you need to be of regular grain and free of knots and irregularities to bend correctly.

 

Also looking at your planking attempt it seems to me that it goes that way because you tried to put the planks straight from the box. You should have considered a little tapering of each plank at the rounded part of the hull to make them go well one near the other. Also if the rounding of the hull is extreme you should fill up the whole with some inexpensive soft wood like balsa which you later cut and sand to proper shape. If planking causes you headaches you can even fill your hull completely. Balsa is a very light wood so the model wouldn't be very heavy if filled up. 

 

Remember, the first layer is the one which does the shape and actually can be done with anything, including strips of thick paper if you want it!

 

Just take a look here on the MSW: there are some folks which build their hulls of PAPER. Yes,  check "paper models" and you will see how they do their hulls using strips of paper put first transversally, then longitudinally, all properly filled and sanded until the shape of the ship looks perfect. 

 

There's even somebody .... see him here:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1420-papegojan-by-mati-148-dutch-pinnace-1627/?hl=papegojan

 

which did his ship in paper then dressed it in wood, and now it looks as if a wooden model, yet the core is.. paper!

 

And one more word: it seems to me that you use CA glue, which is Cyano-acrilate or "super glue?" I would use PVA glue or "wood glue" instead!

 

Good luck with your build, and remember.. there's no good or bad modellers.. only experienced and less experienced, and nobody has ever build its experience except if "hands-on" by doing many mistakes at the beginning!

[dgbot]

Alzarius, The Hobbymill is run by Jeff Philips who is a site sponsor.  They are out of Cincinatti OH.  They have mahogany strips as well as several other types of wood. Their banner is on the forum page. I think you went to the wrong one.

David B

[Alzarius]

Alzarius, The Hobbymill is run by Jeff Philips who is a site sponsor.  They are out of Cincinatti OH.  They have mahogany strips as well as several other types of wood. Their banner is on the forum page. I think you went to the wrong one.

David B

 

 

Looks like Ill just have to wait until May!! lol

 

http://www.hobbymillusa.com/announcements-and-sales.php

[Alzarius]

Doreltomin,

 

I do realized I butcherred my first attempt, badly. I have, since my first errors, used filler blocks to do the front of the ship and this planking attempt is going very well and looks 20 times better. I could probably get away without a second layer after sanding it once it is planked. Im just trying to be a perfectionist. I read all of the articles after i messed up the first time. Everything is beveled this time and it has made the project so much easier and the planking doesnt look like a 10 year old did it this time.

Thats teh first time I saw the paper though and Ill definitely be looking over that.

Thanks!

[dgbot]

Alzarius, The Hobby Mill is in Cincinatti OH.  They have Mahogany.  Jeff Phillis is a site sponsor.  They have a banner on the main forum page. Take another look.

David B

[Alzarius]

Alzarius, The Hobby Mill is in Cincinatti OH.  They have Mahogany.  Jeff Phillis is a site sponsor.  They have a banner on the main forum page. Take another look.

David B

 

 

I guess they are both out of Cincinatti and are a one man show.

 

Ill go look for the banner. Thanks again

[Alzarius]

I just checked, its the same one

[dgbot]

If you click on milled strip wood they have what you are looking for. And trust me I have dealt with and he is in Ohio.  Go to the sponsors section and check them out.

David B.

[Alzarius]

If you click on milled strip wood they have what you are looking for. And trust me I have dealt with and he is in Ohio.  Go to the sponsors section and check them out.

David B.

 

Much appreciated!

 

 

Once he is going again, ill definitely be ordering from him. Until then... guess I have to wait for long shipping days lol.

[dgbot]

There is also the Lumberyard for Model Shipwrights They are also in Ohio.

David B

[Alzarius]

Alzarius. Try the Cornwall Ship site. They are in the UK and I have ordered much timber from them in the past year. All was shipped in art mailing tubes and arrived in Canada safe and sound. And yes, they have .5mm in many widths. Hope this helps a bit.

 

Chris

 

 

Thats actually who I have a current order with! They had a very good selection. Just no way to track anything and I have never ordered from the UK before.

 

Do you remember how long it took them to get your order to you?

[NenadM]

For second layer I used thinned veneer, and results are OK, if you plan to paint model.