French Frigate - Ship's Boats Question

[mtaylor]

While waiting for wood to resume my Licorne Version 2.0 build, I'm doing a side project of the ship's boats.  Given that any decision raises questions... here's mine:

 

Frolich states that even frigates carried three boats nestled inside each other - a Longboat (the largest), a Barge, and then a Cutter.   They were stored on the gundeck on chocks.  Hahn only shows a Longboat (he didn't want to build the other two) and it seems a tad large for the area it goes in.  I have plans for all three from the Bonhomme Richard and from Frolich's book but will have to adjust them for sizing.

 

1)  Given that there's several hatches (4 to be exact) and two scuttles, how high would the chocks have to be?   Hahn doesn't show this.  The problem is there's a main hatch with a ladder that comes up under the boat.

 

2)  Would all the boats after being stored, have a canvas tarp over them to keep water out?  I've heard the boats were left uncovered so rain, etc. would keep the wood swelled and the joints tight.

 

 

[mtaylor]

Thanks Chris.    Note to self:  Scratch the tarps idea... just build the damn boat.

 

I'm hoping there's a definitive answer to this.  I'm leaning to "shoulder high" as some of the pics I've seen of model ships of that time frame have the boats raised well off the deck. 

[Blue Ensign]

Mark, this is what Boudriot has to say about the boat stowage on his 74 gun ship books.

 

The Longboat rests on boat chocks or small cradles of fir, fashioned to the shape of the lower part of the boat's hull; the first chock is placed abaft the forward ladderway, whilst the second butts against the coaming of the main hatchway. The Longboat is stowed so as not to get too much in the way of the forward ladderway, or the running rigging belayed to the main-topssail sheet bitts.

 

Looking at the inboard profile plans at 1:72 scale the keel of the Longboat rests about 2mm above the deck when sitting in the chocks which would equate to no more than 6" clearance to the deck.

 

Boudriot also shows plans for a Longboat, Barge, and Cutter,

 

I have read somewhere but can't bring it to mind at the moment, that live sheep were kept in pens beneath the boats which would perhaps indicate the chocks being higher to give more clearance. I did in fact include sheep in pens beneath the Long Boat on my small scale French Seventy-four build.

 

B.E.

 

 

[mtaylor]

Thanks B.E.   A 74 is different than a frigate (as I've found out).  I checked Bonhomme Richard and it shows the same as you described.  But again, a bigger ship.  I'm continuing my search but finding not much more than what I've found so far which is nothing definitive.   It just seems like they wouldn't have it so low as to block the ladderways. 

[malachy]

Shouldn´t the ladderways be aft of the mainmast anyway? That was the usual practice on 8-pounder frigates, as far as I know.

You could check the NMM for similiar ships:

 

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/82910.html

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/384024.html

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/82056.html

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83818.html

[mtaylor]

Thanks Robin..  I'll look into those.

 

Bava,

 

There is a "main" ladder behind the main mast and just in front of the mizzen.  However, it goes (eventually) to the quarterdeck so it's probably an "officer only" ladder.  The ones that are problems are the 3 with the red arrows.

 

Where the boat sits blocks the one in the middle (a pole ladder) and the one to the left which is dual ladders coming up through twin hatches.  The main hatch seems to be the one in the middle as it's largest hatch on the ship.

 

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Mark, look at these drawings from La belle-Poule, Le Bonhomme Richard and Le Boullogne and

take out details which are not suppose to be there.

[mtaylor]

Thanks, Gaetan.   I'm assuming (probably incorrectly) that the boat's chocks were not very tall?  What I'm trying to figure out now is how tall the chocks were.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

first picture how yo store one on to the other with ''wood spacer''

[mtaylor]

Thanks again, Gaetan.  That pretty much answers my questions. 

[minimini]

Hi Mark

 

Just had a look at the plan for the 18-PDR Frigate LA VENUS scale 1/72 and ther the keel of the longboat rests 3.5 mm above the deck when sitting in the chocks.

 

Michael

[mtaylor]

Thanks Michael.  That's just about where I figure it needs to be to follow Gaetan's plans.

[mtaylor]

Chris,

I guess I should have followed up a bit... I now have the plans I needed to sort this out.  Boats are on gundeck, on chocks as Gaetan's plans showed.  It was fairly common to do it the way you mentioned but also the way this one is.  I think it was up to the shipyard, designer, shipwrights, and possibly even the Captain on how these were stored.

[mtaylor]

Robin,

You're not late to the party..   and your input is appreciated.  I'm suspecting that boat stowage varied, not only by navy but also even by size and the year of the ship. The British in particular were always looking for a better way and things (not just boat stowage) changed. 

[ofencer29350]

for  the licorne ,who made whith the real ship "the brillant" there is only 1 canot:

 

Agrandir cette imageRéduire cette image Cliquez ici pour la voir à sa taille originale.

 

 

Agrandir cette imageRéduire cette image Cliquez ici pour la voir à sa taille originale.

 

 

 

Agrandir cette imageRéduire cette image Cliquez ici pour la voir à sa taille originale.

 

 

 

that's all guys!!

Edited June 15, 2014 by ofencer29350

[ofencer29350]

i just miss that the licorne is a "3e rang " ship so the canot is 10,52 meters in reality for the canot

because the brillant is a 64 gunship not a 74gun!

Edited June 15, 2014 by ofencer29350

[mtaylor]

Thanks for that... Since I don't speak French, I'm running some of this through Google Translator.  There's only 1 ship's boat and it's 10,52 meters long (or 34.5 feet) as Licorne was a 3rd Rate ship.  Right???  If so, that makes life a bit easier.

[ofencer29350]

it's exactely that!