Vasileios Posted October 23, 2013 Share #181 Posted October 23, 2013 For part 165 see sheet number 1 Vasileios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share #182 Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) For part 165 see sheet number 1 Vasileios Copy that, Vasileios (as aviators use to say... )! Thank you. Do stay joined with the company!! Edited October 23, 2013 by Stergios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted October 23, 2013 Share #183 Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Vasileios, yes - parts sometimes appear multiple times on different plans. Stergios, hopefully picture below helps. Took a while for me to figure it out. - The hull plans typically show the part number (this should match the instruction book). - On the rigging plans, the numbers you see refer to the number assigned to the line/rope, and these are referenced on multiple sheets (sometimes just the start, the end or the whole) In this case, one of part identified as 165 appears on sheet 1. However, if you look at sheet 3, you can see the bulwark cleats identified (circled below). There are 6 identified (for lines 50, 5 and 55), but only 4 supplied. If you look closely on sheet 4 you can see that line 5 does not require a bulwark cleat, and this I believe is an error. I installed the bulwark cleats (part 165) in the positions indicated by lines 50 and 55 on sheet 3. I haven't completed the ship yet to know whether this is correct and others may have interpreted this differently, but I spent a lot of time thinking about this. If it would be helpful I could try to send a photo to illustrate what this looked like. Edited October 23, 2013 by Beef Wellington Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted October 23, 2013 Share #184 Posted October 23, 2013 And the picture... Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share #185 Posted October 23, 2013 Jason, as always your help and comments are so precious.... JayCub and Beef Wellington 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted October 23, 2013 Share #186 Posted October 23, 2013 Anytime Stergios, I hope I'm actually helping and not leading you astray - this may be a case of the blind leading the blind! drtrap 1 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted October 23, 2013 Share #187 Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Sorry for another add on - just occurred to me. Don't believe you've installed the channels or chains yet, that is something to consider doing as well before mounting the cannons - especially as the barrels protrude slightly and could be easily knocked when installing the chains. The channels also give a bit of protection, I'm sure others would have advice here as well. Edited October 23, 2013 by Beef Wellington Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share #188 Posted October 23, 2013 Sorry for another add on - just occurred to me. Don't believe you've installed the channels or chains yet, that is something to consider doing as well before mounting the cannons - especially as the barrels protrude slightly and could be easily knocked when installing the chains. The channels also give a bit of protection, I'm sure others would have advice here as well. Don't worry! My next, consecutive steps are: the pinrrails, the channels and finally the guns. Beef Wellington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_smits Posted October 23, 2013 Share #189 Posted October 23, 2013 Hi mate, That plan is the belaying plan and the numbers indicate rigging line numbers from plans 5,6 and 7. They are not part numbers. Jim Quote Jim-----Current builds:HMS SnakeHMS HoodMechanical Solar SystemCompleted builds:HMS Ballahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share #190 Posted October 23, 2013 Hi mate, That plan is the belaying plan and the numbers indicate rigging line numbers from plans 5,6 and 7. They are not part numbers. Jim Hi Jim, thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share #191 Posted October 23, 2013 Now, working on the pinrails skeleton.... Beef Wellington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_smits Posted October 23, 2013 Share #192 Posted October 23, 2013 I will echo Jason here again. Get your channels and pinrails on first. Don't know about Jason but my channels required a couple of friendly taps with a hammer to get the pins fully home both in the channel and the hull. Beef Wellington and drtrap 2 Quote Jim-----Current builds:HMS SnakeHMS HoodMechanical Solar SystemCompleted builds:HMS Ballahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_smits Posted October 25, 2013 Share #193 Posted October 25, 2013 Vasileios, yes - parts sometimes appear multiple times on different plans.Stergios, hopefully picture below helps. Took a while for me to figure it out.- The hull plans typically show the part number (this should match the instruction book).- On the rigging plans, the numbers you see refer to the number assigned to the line/rope, and these are referenced on multiple sheets (sometimes just the start, the end or the whole)In this case, one of part identified as 165 appears on sheet 1. However, if you look at sheet 3, you can see the bulwark cleats identified (circled below). There are 6 identified (for lines 50, 5 and 55), but only 4 supplied. If you look closely on sheet 4 you can see that line 5 does not require a bulwark cleat, and this I believe is an error. I installed the bulwark cleats (part 165) in the positions indicated by lines 50 and 55 on sheet 3.I haven't completed the ship yet to know whether this is correct and others may have interpreted this differently, but I spent a lot of time thinking about this.If it would be helpful I could try to send a photo to illustrate what this looked like.IMG_0509.JPG Jason, The way I read the plans, it looked like the cleats for lines 50 and 55 were larger than for line 5. Therefore, I installed the four bulwark cleats at 50 and 55, and two deck cleats at 5. This could be wrong also but hey ho. Jim Quote Jim-----Current builds:HMS SnakeHMS HoodMechanical Solar SystemCompleted builds:HMS Ballahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted October 25, 2013 Share #194 Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) Jim, you probably took a safer, wiser course! This is the picture I was referring to below (from plan sheet 4) which shows how "line 5" terminates, some sort of arrangement tied or hooked onto eyebolts on the channels. If I'm misinterpreting this please let me know as I'm still not 100% confident I know how to read the plans. Edited October 25, 2013 by Beef Wellington Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_smits Posted October 25, 2013 Share #195 Posted October 25, 2013 Line 5 should terminate on the cleat an line four should end at a belaying pin. There are only three eyepins at the place on the channel and I read that the hooks and a single block attach to these. The rear eyepin is for a top gallant stay I think. Jim Beef Wellington and drtrap 2 Quote Jim-----Current builds:HMS SnakeHMS HoodMechanical Solar SystemCompleted builds:HMS Ballahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_smits Posted October 25, 2013 Share #196 Posted October 25, 2013 I'm not horrendously far off actually rigging that part. So I will figure it out and post some pics. Quote Jim-----Current builds:HMS SnakeHMS HoodMechanical Solar SystemCompleted builds:HMS Ballahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share #197 Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks to a good friend (and mate) of mine I can use the profile gauze and shape the channels curvature better. I've read the manual for channels placing, I consider that as a harmless procedure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share #198 Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) I've tried to improve the gunports profile this morning adding a second layer of red ochre paint.... Bedides the fact that I placed tamiya's tape for security, the accident of leakage to the outer (natural wood) bulwarks has happened thrice... After a couple of efforts to handle this problem I really felt that I liked that cherry-wood like "camouflage" appearance of the wood. Took the decision to extend that looking to the rest of the bulwarks using 1-2 drops of red ochre diluted in matt vallejo's varnish. I like the short-time results, I'll wait to apply a second layer tommorow trying to have a more uniform coverage of this strange-mixture and I'll see... In case of unwanted results, a more formal (walnut ?) painting of the wood will be one-way solution.... Edited October 28, 2013 by Stergios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share #199 Posted October 29, 2013 Placement of channels in progress.... JayCub 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share #200 Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) I've attached temporarily placed the channels in place. Edited November 2, 2013 by Stergios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share #201 Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) I've attached temporarily the channels in place. Learning all the time from your experience, I'd like to ask you my friends about the order of channels, deadeyes and chain-links assembly. I've read a relative post by Jim, but I did not realize exactly the right conscecutive steps of the whole procedure. Thank you in advance!! Edited November 2, 2013 by Stergios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_smits Posted November 2, 2013 Share #202 Posted November 2, 2013 If I were to do this section again I would pin and glue the channels in place, solder all the strops and chain assemblies together and then fix in place in the channels. Finally once secured, start pinning the chains to the hull. Hope this helps. Quote Jim-----Current builds:HMS SnakeHMS HoodMechanical Solar SystemCompleted builds:HMS Ballahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share #203 Posted November 2, 2013 If I were to do this section again I would pin and glue the channels in place, solder all the strops and chain assemblies together and then fix in place in the channels. Finally once secured, start pinning the chains to the hull. Hope this helps. Copy that, Jim. Many thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_smits Posted November 2, 2013 Share #204 Posted November 2, 2013 No worries. My main issue is that my strops and chains aren't soldered and so are a potential weak point. Fortunately only one had failed whilst rigging the shrouds. Managed to fix with black rigging thread and is unnoticeable. Quote Jim-----Current builds:HMS SnakeHMS HoodMechanical Solar SystemCompleted builds:HMS Ballahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share #205 Posted November 2, 2013 No worries. My main issue is that my strops and chains aren't soldered and so are a potential weak point. Fortunately only one had failed whilst rigging the shrouds. Managed to fix with black rigging thread and is unnoticeable. Basically, now I'm thinking to attach the wire-stropped deadeyes and chain assemblies to the channels and afterwards glue the channels on the hull.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted November 2, 2013 Share #206 Posted November 2, 2013 Stergios, I'd add the following. Like Jim, I didn't solder mine - I tried and failed! You can bend the metal strops so they close pretty well, but the chains can pop out if there is undue pressure. To alleviate this concern, I ended up putting some epoxy in the slots when all was complete to eliminate this risk. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/509-hms-snake-by-beef-wellington-caldercraft-scale-1-64-first-wooden-ship-build/page-14#entry64038 I'd also suggest you consider the following points, I thought I'd documented what I did pretty well at the time, but going back and reading it afresh there is fair bit omitted. The chains want to be in line with the shrouds and stays. You can get the correct line by tying some thread to a dowel at the appropriate height and then trace where the various fixing points should be. Given than the two end fixing points are defined (most of the chains attach to the wale) and the deadeyes sit on the channels, the length of the chain is then defined. Using the kit supplied pieces will at best result in a gap. Making your own is an options using thick wire and bending manually - you can get a more authentic look as each chain is custom fit for its position. The kit supplied pieces are all the same size even though the lengths needed vary. Takes longer but for me had more satisfying result. Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share #207 Posted November 2, 2013 Hi Jason, and thanks for typing so much helping info.... Yes, I saw your previous post but I thought the chain length discrepancy as a theoritical complication which I should be solving away...but given that the chains are all of the same size, yes this might be a cause of concern.... I'll start to place the deadeys first and I'll see... Thanks again. Stergios PS: Why to use some epoxy and not some cyanoacrylate ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share #208 Posted November 3, 2013 Another today's question: have you stropped the deadeyes using the standard kit wire? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted November 3, 2013 Share #209 Posted November 3, 2013 I believe that the epoxy is a much better solution if there are gaps to fill as here, and it seems to have worked fine. I've always assumed that CA is just a surface-surface adhesive - others with more experience here can probably comment....and yes, I did use the supplied metal strops. Personally I didn't find this the most fun task but the results are highly visible and its worth spending the time to get it how you want it. Best of luck Stergios, looking forward to seeing your progress. drtrap 1 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share #210 Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Another today's question: have you stropped the deadeyes using the standard kit wire? Thanks Well, I just have realized that I don't have to create my own wire-strops for the dead eyes.! These are already included in the standard kit... Edited November 3, 2013 by Stergios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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