What glue to use?

[rshousha]

Which types of glue do I use for wood ship kits?

It seems like everywhere I look people are using CA (cyanoacrylate) glue to do just about everything. However, as someone who has acquired an allergy to the stuff I’ve had the opportunity to try a variety of other products and have found some excellent replacements. Recently, a wood ship client asked me for CA glue for his models and I thought I’d write this note to describe CA glue and some other ideas I’ve learned since I stopped using the stuff.

CA Glue

CA glue comes in three thicknesses, thin, medium, and thick, in various names depending on the brand. The best known are Zap-a-Gap and Bob Smith. I’ve tried various brands and prefer the Bob Smith brand because it comes in a variety of sizes but the quality of Zap-a-Cap is just about the same.

You can find a longer discussion about the glues I use in my models at http://modellers-workshop.com/january-2014-which-types-of-glue-do-i-use-for-various-jobs/

 

5-minute and 15-minute Epoxy

I’ve replaced all my CA needs with two-part epoxy and wood glue. For the epoxy, I use 5-minute epoxy and am very happy with the results. In fact, I have not found a single place where I would have preferred the CA stuff, having used dozens of bottles in the past. Yes, you have to mix a small amount every time you need to glue something but this gives you time to prepare a few parts in advance. I’ve never been able to prepare more than five or six parts at a time for gluing so this is really not a problem. The nice thing about epoxy is that is dries completely clear so you can use that to advantage when making, say, a bucket of water.

I also have a couple of bottles of 15-minute epoxy ready but I’ve never needed them. Perhaps someone who can actually prepare a bunch of parts in advance might have use for that but I haven’t figured that out. I highly recommend using epoxy over CA glue for just about any job where wood glue is not suitable.

Wood Glue

For all my wood and knot needs, I’ve switched over to wood glue. After all, before the invention of CA glue, pretty well all wood models were built using this stuff. I use the two varieties shown below but I’d be hard pressed to describe the differences. I think the Titebond flows a little faster but the Lepage’s dries a bit faster. It’s not a huge difference.

However, I have learned a trick about this stuff you might want to know. I always have at least three bottles on the go. There is the one in current use, which I refill from time to time from the other two. This is because the glue is thick and I can squeeze out a few drops quickly when the bottle is full. Otherwise it takes too long to squeeze it out. I use the first bottle until the cap inevitably breaks off and then the next bottle becomes the one in use. This way I am never frustrated by having a broken cap and I always have a full bottle to use.

I also buy the smallest bottles of that stuff for this reason. If I were to buy a large bottle to use to refill the small one, I would end up with a small bottle with a broken cap and a large bottle that I can’t use to pour from.

 

I use wood glue on all wood surfaces, of course, but I also use it for all my knots. I find the glue soaks into the thread and disappears, unlike the CA glue, that just kind of sits there on top of everything. Now, of course, one needs more clamping with wood glue, and more time, but isn’t that what modelling is all about?

Happy Modelling to All,

Rick Shousha
Modeller’s Workshop
Montreal

Edited May 14, 2014 by rshousha

[usedtosail]

Hi Rick. Do you use the white glue full strength on the knots and lines or do you dilute it?

 

Thanks.

[rshousha]

Hi,

 

I only use the yellow stuff and i use it full strength on the knots. However, I do smear it on gently so it works itself into the thread. I don't drop it on like you would with the CA glue. Speaking of dilution, I did just use some with about 25% dilution for a flag. I just completed the Corel Wasa gun kit (really fun) and I used the glue in slightly diluted form to give the flag some shape. 

 

I should put up some pictures of that kit in a little while. 

 

Cheers, 

 

Rick

[usedtosail]

Thanks Rick. This is great information, as I have an allergy to CA glue too. I have been using Dullcote lacquer on knots but have not been too happy with the holding power.

[rshousha]

Which model are you building?  It will be interesting to hear about the holding power you need. What I've done to increase holding power is to coat the thread at the absolute last second and then snug the line. This puts a tiny bit of glue right inside the blocks, if you see what I mean. 

 

My experience with big boats is limited but I do have plenty of experience with boats of 1'=12" scale!

 

Cheers, 

 

Rick 

[Jaager]

A useful Titebond dispencer -  go to a local pharmacy and ask for a 10ml oral syringe.  The plunger can be removed and the barrel filled.  If done carefully and with the help of gravity - the plunger replaced and air expelled.  The end can be easily covered - I use electrical tape - (the gauge is different from injection syringes so those needles and caps do not fit -  but then the bore is large enough to work with the glue's viscosity. 

 

I think the limit on dilution v bond strength is 10% water.

The tighter the clamping - the stronger the bond.

 

For rigging and flags - take a look at Lineco -Neutral pH Adhesive (Amazon)  a book binders PVA glue that should help minimize the effects of O2 and UV light.

[usedtosail]

I am currently building the Constitution but still a long way from rigging. For previous models, I did use CA for knots, except for the ratlines, which is where I used the Dullcore lacquer. I had a few of the end knots on the ratlines come undone, so I may try the white glue for them on this build.

[rshousha]

Hi, 

 

I'm not sure about the white glue. I used that stuff at the beginning of my building but once I changed to the yellow stuff I was much more pleased. Perhaps it requires a rethink on my part but I'm concerned that the white stuff is not quite as strong as the yellow stuff. Also the white glue can be washed away ever after it is dry so I wonder how durable it can be, it may be fine on ratlines as there is little pressure there but I wouldn't use it on the planking or the decks. 

 

The Constitution is an impressive model. Here in Canada, everyone builds the Bluenose first and, as a seller of kits, I sure wish I could find another interesting Canadian subject to sell. At least in the US, you have a few more American subjects that have nice kits available. 

 

Cheers, 

[dgbot]

Depending on the structure I use both white and yellow.  For the structure such as bulkheads, lifts, frames,planking, etc I use yellow.  For everything else I use white.  It is easier to diltue if needed and can be removed with isopropal alcohol as yellow can.  ]

David B

[usedtosail]

Hum, I think I was using the term white glue as a generic term. I meant wood glue, which is yellowish but dries clear.

[rshousha]

Yup, that's the stuff. It works great. Apparently, the really white stuff is wonderful for school projects and is edible...

 

Cheers, 

 

Rick 

[Ulises Victoria]

I try to avoid CA as much as possible.

 

For wood to wood I use Titebond Wood Glue and can not be any happier with it.

 

For gluing dissimilar materials, like metal to wood, I use a glue called Repair Extreme, but I would use without hesitation, 5 min. epoxy if that was unavailable.

 

I use a minidrop of full strength white glue for my knots.

[rshousha]

I find myself using Titebond and Lepage's interchangeably, without thinking about them too much. Have you noticed a difference? 

 

Best Regards, 

 

Rick 

[Perls]

Hi Rick,

 

This is a trick i learned when I worked with some very expert finish carpenters.

 

Take some Tite-Bond or Elmer's Wood glue and using your finger spread a very thin, but well coating, layer on one of the pieces to be glued. If it's end grain, let it soak in but make sure you have a complete thin layer on top. Let it dry until clear. Then take the other piece to be glued and again spread a very thin layer of glue on it. Let it get tacky for a moment or two and press the two pieces together. Using no more than finger pressure the two pieces will virtually instantly bond, in a manner very similar to contact cement. But unlike contact cement you still have a few moments to move and position the pieces perfectly.

 

It truly is a great technique. Try it!

 

Best,

Steve

[rshousha]

Hi Steve, 

 

This is very nice. I'm sure I've done this by chance for something or other but to have it stated here as an actual technique is wonderful. I like it and will add it to the blog on glue. 

 

How long have you been building kits? 

 

Best Regards, 

 

Rick 

[Perls]

Hi Rick,

 

I'm a rookie at building ships. I had lost my job on Wall Street in the Financial Crisis and while I was on the beach, I started building BlueJacket's Smuggler. I put it down for about five years when I started working again but have recently picked it up again in no small part because I discovered MSW. I have also started a build log: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7684-schooner-smuggler-by-perls-bluejacket-scale-148-gloucester-1877/#entry227443 (I don't know how to add an active link)

 

Nevertheless, I have about 30 years experience in fine woodworking and have built a number of antique reproduction for our house. In the 90's, I took a brief sabbatical and that was where I was able to work with some excellent woodworkers. Which it where I learned this trick and a few others.

 

Best,

Steve

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates

 

I have some questions 

 

I use the Original Titebond

 

http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=d4d28015-603f-4dfc-a7d9-f684acc71207

 

Now this product is not waterproof and as a newbie I love this stuff. I can easily undo any work. I have diluted it up to 50% and it holds just fine, this is a model ship after all, and the coat both parts and let them dry trick works great. Clean up/ prep for basswood wood is easy with some isopropyl alcohol. Any other clean up just needs water.  I just recently used my heat gun to remove a deck I glued 9 months ago. It was very thin wood fully glued to a plywood surface and it peeled right up. I did gouge the deck with my hobby knife but that was my fault and thankfully of no consequence. . 

 

Now my question. Am I asking for trouble down the road, say 10, maybe 20 years from now. Will the humidity in the air cause this glue to fail  

[Perls]

Hi,

 

I'm pretty confident you're OK. As I mentioned above, I have a lot of years experience reproducing antique furniture. This has obviously involved the use of lots of veneers and inlays.

 

While not exactly the same, I have used a short cut for attaching the veneers and inlays. Depending on the specific circumstances I would use carpenters glue as opposed to the more traditional contact cement. Essentially it involved coating both the substrate and veneer/inlay with carpenters glue and letting both dry. Then I would use a hot iron and press the pieces together. It's sort of the opposite process of what you did with heat gun. I did some of this work 30 years ago and everything is as tight and smooth as the day I finished it. I've applied the veneers/inlays to both plywoods and hardwoods (mostly mahogany) with no problems.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Best,

Steve

[MikeB4]

I've built a couple of models using CA as the primary glue. My question and concern is will CA hold permanently the wood that has been bonded together with it or will it eventually come apart?