HMS Surprise by Waitoa - Mamoli - Scale 1:75

[Mayohoo]

I used the tutorial on planking to learn the "rules". I think they are 15 cm max length (scale 25 feet), no joints adjacent to each other on adjacent planks, no thinning a plank width more than 50%. I then did the upper bulwarks first by measuring the distance from a completely parallel single plank placed at the line dividing the upper and lower planking. The vertical distance i then quartered so as to even the distance discrepancies from stern to bow out gradually.I did not use any nails (rust issues as they are not brass) as they can discolor wood over time.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/219-hms-surprise-by-mayohoo-al-scale-1-48-after-aubrey-maturin-series-first-wooden-ship-build/page-2

 

 

and page 3. I then added trenails.

 

For gunports, I would have cut them out in proper locations. GIven the difference in kits, I think you just have to cut planks to correct lengths.

 

Hope this helps. Do you have specific questions?

[Waitoa]

Hi

 

My approach to planking is to be honest a bit strange. I am grateful that sandpaper and putty have been invented and use heavily on the first planking. I am embarrassed to post any photos of this stage as I can already hear the cry's of anguish from others who put my poor efforts into the shade but will give a little sneak peak. I do use pins and clamps but remove the pins before smoothing for the second planking so it looks worse than it ends up.

 

 

 

The guide Mayohoo posted is helpful and am plucking up the courage to do this on my second planking. I am not a big fan of the metal brackets that Mamoli use as my first build was the ill-starred Del Prado Victory. While I was able to get a reasonable finish it was frustrating as had to really recess the brackets into the frames and there were gaps between the planks and the frames due to the shape of the brackets. Posted what result I got below.

 

 

 

For this build I am planking from the gun deck down and then will frame the gun ports and then plank upwards. The top deck sides need to be raised as well to get closer to the shape of the Surprise that I have in my head.

 

Hope that this helps.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Waitoa

[Mayohoo]

This kind of gives you the idea of using stealers to compensate for the difference in widths (much wider towards bow). The joints are not adjacent and nothing is reduced more than 50%.

 

 

The second photo shows trenails at joints and where they are attached between gunports.

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[Bipper]

Hi,

Looks like great stuff, I just bought this model from the UK folks and hope to have it in a week or so. This will be my third build and am following yours closely. Friggin things take me years but I realy enjoy the journey. I want to try to bash the kit to make it more realistic as you have done so I will be following you, Bindy, and cptn71 for tips. Not sure about posting my own build as I think they are amazing many folks here may find faults. I just finished the HMS Snake and did the USCG Falcon a couple of years back. Your build looks great, did you use graphite between the deck planks? Please let me know.

Thanks for your help,

Dave

Edited February 11, 2015 by Bipper

[Waitoa]

Hi Bipper,

 

Welcome aboard and good luck with the build. Everyone on this site has been really supportive and would not be worried about posting a log as no one has yet to point out the many faults in my build but have offered helpful advice. In answering to your question I used a black marker pen for the caulking on the deck planking after reading someone's build log. I did use graphite on my first build and it spread when a scraped the deck so got a bit of marking. Had to shop around a bit to get one that did not bleed into the wood too much so if doing this would advice doing some tests. Finished with Danish oil again due to advice from other members.

 

Waitoa

[captain71]

Yeh, I saw that the graphite was getting spread around on the planks but actually I kinda like it. I think it will give it a more weathered look and I don't want the ship to like it just came off the showroom floor. In fact I might just make the whole thing look a little weather beaten. Maybe even some cannon shot in the sails !

[Mayohoo]

I originally used a felt tip artist pen that promised not to run and it worked fine, cost like $5.. Then I lost it and used a Sharpie and it works fine tho it occasionally runs near the ends. I usually treat the entire plank and then cut to size and sand to get it perfect, then carefully and lightly do the end that was cut. Once you do a sand and oil the deck ends up looking somewhat weathered, which I think looks good. The oil mixes with a tiny bit of saw dust that is left to make the wood look less manufactured. It also fills in some of the tiny spaces between the not perfect boards and my not perfect placement.

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2015 by Mayohoo

[Bipper]

Okay so I received my new kit yesterday, and am all excited.  Believe me it is very cool.  But… I’m gonna complain a bit…  This is my third wooden ship model and I’m still wondering why the instructions are so poorly written in English?  My first build was the USS Falcon by Artesania Latina and the instructions were very bad. My next endeavor was the HMS Snake by Caldercraft, silly me thinking a UK company would be clearer but not so much…  So now I Have the HMS Surprise by Mamoli and as I have said it is very cool, but the parts lists are all in Italian which I will work around but why is it so hard?

 

And another issue I have is why make folks paint/dye the lines black and not just supply them as black?  I had this issue on the HMS Snake and had dots of black dye on the deck I had worked so hard on.  Do you all dye them before putting them on, shield the deck, or just but buy black lines?

 

Please let me know.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Mayohoo]

Hi Bipper,

 The AL instructions were also very vague and not very well written. The resources here and on the net are far better. For example, one set of instructions basically said: "Plank the hull". No details, how to's, minimal pics etc. Three months later, after doing research and trial and error, I finished planking the hull to my satisfaction and pretty close to accurate I think. With these kits, you just have to realize that the specifics and detail are not going to be there. The exception I have seen is the Jotika kits where I have seen their web build and instructions- they seem pretty good. 

 

 As for the lines, much of the lines are "seized" or covered with fine black thread. After communicating with Gil Middleton (great HMS Victory build), I purchased this gizmo that works pretty well.

 

Basically, it spins a layer of fine thread around a larger thread. I used black polyester threads (fine and medium) from the local sewing shop around the threads/strings included from the kit, which are brown and beige. The polyester thread is like $2 for 200 yards, so basically minimal cost.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Mayohoo

[GuntherMT]

  Do you all dye them before putting them on, shield the deck, or just but buy black lines?

 

Please let me know.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

I'm pretty new to this hobby, but one of the first 'aftermarket' decisions I made was rigging line.  I throw out the kit rigging line and get line from Syren.  At some point in the future I may go down the road of making my own, but for the time being, I'll let Chuck make superb line and just buy it from him.

[Mayohoo]

My first ship so I have been using kit line and then seizing them with polyester thread (black). I leave the unseized portions brown or beige as they come in different colors in the kit. I figure, the rigging was not uniform on a ship (some older, some newer) and would be varying shades of white, beige, and brown colors except the black portion which was treated.

[Waitoa]

I usually use black thread to seize the stays but leave the rest of the fixed rigging in the dark brown that is supplied by the kit maker. For the running rigging - the rope that moves the sails and spars - I usually leave the more pale colours. Not sure what the rule was on the Royal Navy ships at this period but sure like Mayohoo it did differ and the reference to blacking was more around where the stays were seized. Also the boats I have sailed on the running rigging was deliberately left a different colour so if you need to grab something in an emergency you grab something that was a more secure and not the bits that move around.

 

Waitoa

[captain71]

I like the top down Idea for planking. I'm at that stage now but afraid to get moving. I see that if you can get it straight along the edge below the gun ports and do a course above, it gives you something to measure from. You can keep it pretty straight as long as you keep both sides equal. I'm still getting a book though. Haven't decided on a good one. Any suggestions

[Mayohoo]

For general information, "The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War 1650-1850" by Goodwin is excellent. For model shipNelson era detail, "The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" by Longridge is excellent. For general modeling, "Ship Modeling from Stem to Stern" by Roth is very good. "Historic Ship Models" by Mondfeld was also pretty good. 

[Waitoa]

Hi

 

I would recommend the Ship to Stern book that Mayohoo has listed. Also found a number of tutorials and recommendations on this website. There was one in particular by Dan Vlads but have tried to relocate but could not find. Found this one really useful.

 

I always get nervous about starting as I don't want to get anything wrong. To be honest I always do get stuff wrong and don't know why I agonised about it in the first place. I am far off achieving the quality of most of the other builders on this site but have found part of the fun is getting around my own self inflicted issues. Each build I am getting better but only through the mistakes I have previous builds so would recommend starting and rolling with it. After all that is what putty, sandpaper and the second planking are for.

 

Waitoa

[Waitoa]

Hi

 

Finished the first planking below the gun deck. Applied a little bit of putty and waiting to dry before I start the process of sanding and cleaning it up as a base for the second planking. Made the mistake of using some spare planks and found that they were not as thick as the others which means a bit more sanding as can see one of the planks dips a bit but should be able to be sanded out.

 

Before I resume planking will alter the height of the frames on the weather deck to bring the look of this deck more closely to the Surprise. Also do not want to use the metal frames provided for the gun ports so want to build wooden frames which will be planked across and then cut into to form these. Wavering on including crew figures but my little boy is insisting so may not have much choice.

 

Waitoa.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Waitoa

[Mayohoo]

Good progress!

[Waitoa]

Thanks Mayohoo.

 

Been looking at how I can adapt the look of the hull to be closer to the Surprise as this is basically a re-box of the La Glorie so does not have the same profile on the weather deck. To get closer to this I have added 20 mm wooden pegs to the frames whose tops are 35 mm off the gun deck. I was thinking of cutting away the frames and splicing these inserts into these but felt the end result would be too fragile. The reason for only 20 mm pegs is so the cannons on the gun deck do not get interfered with these. This means the resulting pegs are a bit fragile still so will plank the outer planks up to the weather deck level and then do the final shaping while they are in place.

 

 

 

 

 

Still not sure what to do about the cannon ports as the kit method I think will be hard to get the right look as i think the metal frames will not sit right and ruin the flow of the planks. Will finish the outer planking and the decide.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Waitoa

[Waitoa]

Hi

 

Abandoned the soft metal cannon ports and instead went for my own made ports. Happy with the result and the top plank is only for demo and not fixed down before anyone asks.

 

Waitoa.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Waitoa

[HIPEXEC]

Which kit is this? Where did you buy it?

[Mayohoo]

Looks good! Cutting the ports out was a fair amount of work, but worth it to me. The AL kit does not include the metal gunports that your Mamoli kit does. I am putting carronades on the upper deck and the ports needed to be a smidgen higher then if I used cannons.

[Waitoa]

Looks good! Cutting the ports out was a fair amount of work, but worth it to me. The AL kit does not include the metal gunports that your Mamoli kit does. I am putting carronades on the upper deck and the ports needed to be a smidgen higher then if I used cannons.

 

Thanks Mayohoo, agree the extra work really pays off with cutting and boxing your own gun ports.

 

 

Hi Hipexec, this is the Mamoli version of the Surprise. In purchased it online from the Model Dockyard if I remember right.

 

Waitoa

[Waitoa]

Hi

 

Making very slow progress. Unfortunately work is hotting up and involves travel. I have followed the lay out of the gun ports on the plans. I know these aren't correct but balanced it out with how much other work it would involve. Instead of completing the planking and the cutting the ports decided to only plank part way and then cut downwards. Provides easier access and makes the boxing of the ports easier. All of this involves a lot more work but happy with the results.

 

Waitoa

Edited June 16, 2015 by Waitoa

[Waitoa]

Hi

 

Seen some queries around the use of the metal brackets for the gun ports. I did not use these and have attached some photos that show the stages of boxing I have used. To get the gun ports running along the side in a nice flow I made sure that the top plank was where the top of the gun port was going to be. Once I have finished the boxing in then I will restart the planking and hoping that the net result is a nice line of gun ports.

 

Once I had marked and cut these out I have used some scrap wood to form the sides. Given the depth I need I doubled these up to give the right thickness. I also used some of the waste wood to form a lip on the bottom part of the gun port. This is to give the bottom part of the boxing something firmer to sit on.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Waitoa

[Waitoa]

Then used more scrap wood to build the inside planking

Edited July 13, 2015 by Waitoa

[Waitoa]

And finally added the boxing around the sides and bottom. I am an amateur at this but hope it helps as my only experience of using these metal brackets -Del Prado -Victory - nearly put me off this hobby for life.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Waitoa

[Jparsley]

Looks nice and clean

[HIPEXEC]

Thanks for posting your build log of the HMS Surprise. I shall be starting a Surprise this fall and will follow your build with great interest.

Rich

[Waitoa]

Hi

 

Thanks for all the comments. Struggling a bit with motivation so using this log as a way of keeping me going. Small update. I have decided to plank the level of the top deck and then do the boxing. This is to ensure I get a nice fit for the sides of the boxing and also with this planks added looks more like a ship. As the kit is basically the la Glorie re boxed will changing the profile of the sides of the top deck so it looks more like the Surprise.

 

Waitoa

Edited July 28, 2015 by Waitoa

[Waitoa]

Another short post. As mentioned before the kit is a re-boxing of la Glorie so I have decided to modify it where I can so I can get closer to the Surprise in the books \ movie. I have shown the original plans and profile of the weather deck which is more open. To get closer to the Surprise I have planked up the sides. My challenge now is to decide where to place the gun ports as in marking them out can see I will run into issues with the rigging if not careful.

 

Waitoa

Edited August 2, 2015 by Waitoa