Bluenose by 7Provinces – Billing Boats – 1:75 - first wooden ship build

[7 Provinces]

Interesting idea, I have no experience with tack cloth and I do not know whether or not I can get it here.

I was already thinking about using a wet cloth or pressurized air (like from an airbrush). I'll have a look around in the next days. I can then try it on the test deck 

[mrcc]

I know finishing carpenters just prior to painting or staining use it on the wood. You should be able to get it at any hardware store, in North America anyways.

A slightly damp cloth may work OK as well.

[7 Provinces]

I was not able to do much lately but I did start working on the tests.

First I tested caulking. As with the model I first planked the test deck to only do the caulking afterwards, since I need to replicate the same circumstances to be able to compare.

There are two issues: 1) how to get the caulking color in between the deck planks and not on them and 2) to find the right color/medium to make the coloring with.

I started out with a 0.5 mm HB pencil which I sharpened additionally with sandpaper. Since HB is fairly stabile it is easy to get between de deck planks without breaking the pencil. On the picture the left-hand side is treated with the pencil and the right-hand side is left as is.

 

 

 

In my opinion it did came out not too bad, but what I do not like is the grayish-silver shimmer of the pencil color in certain light conditions (i.e. when it reflects the light).

 

So I went out and got myself a charcoal pencil. The problem with these is that they break and even crumble very easily. They cannot be sharpened with a pencil sharpener (I had to find out), so I used a scalpel and paper to get a sharp point. While doing the caulking it has to be re-sharpened after every 10-20 cm or so of use and even then I did not really get between the planks without also coloring some of the top of planks which makes the caulking stand out too much.

However I do like the deep black color very much which, in my opinion, goes very well with the mahogany deck. I hope that after sanding the deck again some of the color on top of the planks will be removed.

On the picture you see the top part done with the HB pencil and the bottom part with the charcoal. In the middle there are still some planks without caulking. On the right side where the light reflects you can make out the grayish-silver shimmer of the HB pencil which I do not like. The charcoal has a much deeper black color.

 

 

 

The picture shows the holes which I did for the trenails as well. I drilled the trenail holes in a pattern according to Gene Bodnar’s practicum. According to the practicum, trenails for deckplanks up to 6” were 1,5” to 2” in diameter, which was the case with the Bluenose. In my case this means that I chose to drill holes of 0.7 mm diameter (60 x 0.7 = 42 mm ≈ 1.65”).

So the left side has trenail holes now and the right side does not.

 

I am not yet sure how to make the trenails. I do not want these standing out too much, nor do I want them to be lighter of color than the deck planks. I am thinking of soaking cocktail sticks in mahogany stain and hope they will suck up the color, at least at the tips. Then I would apply some charcoal and glue them in. A more elaborate alternative would be to glue some deck planks together and drill holes in it with a hollow needle and use the little cylinders extracted from the needle. But I am not sure that I want to go there…

 

Any ideas and comments are welcome 

[mrcc]

Hi Jan-Willem, I think I prefer the look with the pencil... more subtle in my opinion.

PS The tree nail effect looks great!! In the bottom picture, do you have a varnish on the planks and if so, what kind as it looks very good!

 

Julian 

[bhermann]

Jan-Willem - like Julian, I think the HB pencil gives the better finish and that the more subtle color is better. 

 

For the treenails, I like the idea of staining them to be close to the deck color.  I'd suggest trying some without the charcoal blackening.  From what I've seen on real ships, the treenails were slightly larger than the holes drilled for them, so were literally forced into place with a mallet.  With that tight a fit, no caulking was necessary.  Give it t try both ways and see what you like best.

 

Bob

[7 Provinces]

Julian, Bob, thanks a lot for your input. You are right, the HB caulking is more subtle which is a very important quality. I hope to be doing the trenails soon and then some sanding and varnishing. Then we'll see the final outcome 

I figure that if I go for the pencil I will try an 6B or 8B pencil as well. I think this will be as subtle because of the sharp point but just a little more black.

 

Julian: no I did not varnish or wax yet. This is just the sanded surface. The upper picture was taken outside in the sun, the latter inside under several lights. this may explain part of the difference. Also working on the wood, drawing the caulking and drilling the holes, may have left some marks from touching or rubbing the wood.

[7 Provinces]

Hi all,

 

I have had another idea for the trenails which I have tried on my test deck now. Instead of using (light color wood) cocktail sticks I realized (or two bits of stored information miraculously collided in my brain) that the deck planks are 0.7 mm thick. Which is the same size as the diameter of the holes I drilled in the deck… So I sought out a particularly thick deck plank bit and cut off a small stripe with a scalpel, trying to make it square (or about square). I tried this for trenails and I can only say it worked perfectly.

Here’s a picture of the progress. I started on top with three rows of just plain wood. Then I did three rows where I rubbed the length of the wood with charcoal. To no effect as it turned out. Then there’s another three rows of plain and two of “charcoaled”.

 

 

 

 

My conclusions from this test are that a) this will be the easiest way for me to do the trenailing, by using the same would I think the effect is more subtle and realistic and c) the charcoal treatment has no effect and can be omitted.

 

After I finished the trenailing I did a very licht sanding with 180 grit paper. You see the result below.

 

 

 

As I hoped the too wide charcoal lines have gone from the top of the deck planks and the only caulking left is what is between the planks. From the picture I would say this is just about next to nothing. There is little or no difference between the top five (HB pencil), middle three (no caulking) and bottom three (charcoal) planks. This means that when I want to have caulking, I need to do it after sanding the trenails and with a pencil, because the charcoal lines are too wide.

Then to the trenails: also these are hardly visible anymore  . Subtle is good but I had hoped for a little bit more visibility.

 

 

 

I was going to proceed to the varnish, but now I am contemplating trying a wash first. If at all possible I would like to reach the effect of dirt or grease in the creases. With creases I mean the creases between the different planks and between the trenails and the planks. In this way it would all stand out a bit more, like more contrast.

I have two problems with that however: 1) I do not know with what to do this best and 2) the planks itself also have lost of creases. I do not mind a bit of weathering, but the creases within the planks should not compete with the ones between the planks…

 

Last consideration for now: somehow I always assumed I will varnish the deck. For some reason I also thought of the practical side here that I could just wipe off any stains from painting the stanchions if I had used gloss varnish on the deck  

 

However, some time ago I thought this might be a bit too much, so I also got myself a pot of semi gloss varnish. I wanted to try both on the test deck. But now I think I will not use gloss at all and I think of oiling the deck or maybe even waxing it. I do have some wood oil, but no wax. My experience with the oil is that it tends to enhance the contrast and brighten the details in the wood, which could obviate the need for a wash.

 

Any ideas about this?

[mrcc]

Hi Jan-Willem, in my opinion to varnish the deck would be more practical and in the long-term easier to maintain as reapplying an oil treatment every 4-5-6 years might be more problematic with all the fittings and furniture and masts on the deck of the finished model.

 

PS I agree on the treenails.. tough to see. I would probably contrast more with a different stain or color on the treenails themselves. Perhaps varnish, then drill your holes and put in a wood putty, sand back, and final coat with varnish. That is what a lot of people on MSW seem to do. Just a suggestion as I have limited experience on this.

 

Julian

[7 Provinces]

Hi Julian,

Thanks for the suggestion of the wood putty. I read about filling the holes with wax before, but not about the putty yet.

The thing I keep asking myself is: probably on the real ship they used the same wood for the trenails as for the deck planks. So probably the trenails were not all that visible to start with apart from the grey/black muck which might appear after some time on the edges. So should I deliberately make trenails in a different color just so that it can be seen that I made these? I doubt it. But I can't get my mind off the fact that I do like the pattern on the deck.

I guess it is back to the testing deck for me.... 

[7 Provinces]

I have now finished testing. I could have tested more, as I’ll explain later, but the whole area has now been tested upon.

What I did since the last post: I have started to varnish with different types of varnish, semi-gloss and gloss, both acrylic basic indoor varnish. I have also though about a “wash” and decided against it in favor of another technique which I hoped would give a bit more contrast to the whole thing. The technique which I tried was to use a very sharp black aquarelle pencil (Caran d’Ache Supracolor Soft) and gently wash it down/rub it in with a small brush and water. This is on the right-hand half of the testing piece.

My conclusions are:

1. after sanding (lightly) and varnishing none, or close to none, of the caulking can be discerned, irrelevant of the technique used
2. the varnish brings out the trenails a little more but these are still hard to see (on the far left)
3. the use of the aquarelle pencil brought out the trenails a bit more (I lightly touched the trenails with black and then brushed with water; right-hand half of the testing block)
4. after three layers of varnish, there is (almost) not difference between gloss and semi-gloss (semi-gloss are the 2 quarters on the outsides)
5. oil brings out the trenails very nicely without having to use a pencil or anything
6. the oil however leaves the wood very matte. I like the semi-gloss varnish because it is close to how the wood came in the box.

 

The pictures show the test block with:

1. outer left: caulking top 5 planks with HB pencil, bottom 3 planks with charcoal, in between no caulking. Finish with semi-gloss varnish (3 layers)
2. middle left: caulking top 5 planks with HB pencil, bottom 3 planks with charcoal, in between no caulking. Finish with Auro hard oil (one layer)
3. middle right: caulking and trenails top 3 planks with Supracolor Soft aquarelle pencil and water brush (heavy application), bottom 3 planks with Supracolor Soft aquarelle pencil and water brush (light application), in between no caulking or trenail coloring. Finish with gloss varnish (3 layers)
4. outer right: caulking and trenails top 3 planks with Supracolor Soft aquarelle pencil and water brush (heavy application), bottom 3 planks with Supracolor Soft aquarelle pencil and water brush (light application), in between no caulking or trenail coloring. Finish with semi-gloss varnish (3 layers)

 

 

 

 

So now I could go on testing. I would like to have the result of the oil, but under a varnish. Maybe it is possible to varnish the oiled part? It still feels very dry and not oily at all. However if I try to varnish this oiled part I will have given up my reference of which look I like. So probably I will have to do a separate test...

[bhermann]

Interesting test results, Jan-Willem.  To my eye the semigloss finish looks the warmest and most natural.  I like the look of the left side, although I am not sure whether the HB pencil or the charcoal looks better, I am leaning toward the charcoal at the moment.  I have read many times that scale model finishes are best if they are slightly understated, and I think these two do that best.

 

Is the purpose of the last photo in the series to show the 'shiny' effect of a varnish finish?  I'm not sure how much of that would be seen in the finished model, particularly after all the deck fixtures are in place.  It seems that you need to view at a severe angle to pick up the effect.

 

In any case, you are the builder of this model and you should proceed with what you think is best!  I don't know enough about finishes to say whether it is possible to varnish over oil or not - there are those present on the forum who have real knowledge on that subject - I bow to their wisdom.

 

Bob

[7 Provinces]

Hi Bob, I agree on the semi-gloss. And on the charcoal (is also warmer) although I must say that it is hard to discern any difference.

 

The purpose of the last phote os to show that the part which I treated with hard oil is not lighter of color than the varnished parts, but just matte. In the first 3 pictures the light is such that one could believe the oiled part has a lighter color. This however is not the case.

 

I have built another - much smaller - test deck yesterday and today which I also oiled and I am now going to varnish it. With and without sanding, to see if there's a difference.

[mrcc]

The oiled deck looks great but can you apply varnish over it?

[7 Provinces]

I just tested that on a new - smaller - test deck.

I oiled the whole test deck and it looked great, just matte.

Then I lightly sanded 3/4 of it before applying the semi-gloss varnish. On the other 1/4 I applied the varnish without sanding.

At the moment this is only 1 layer of varnish but I can say following already:

a) varnish seems to hold well on the whole surface (sanded and unsanded)

b.) after varnishing the whole deck appears slightly darker than after oiling or after only varnishing

c) the trenails appear more subtle than after oiling only but more clear than after varnishing only

d) on the part of the deck which I sanded the trenails are harder to discern than on the part which I varnished unsanded.

 

I will have to see tomorrow in daylight though and then I will take some pictures and post them.

Edited October 24, 2014 by 7 Provinces

[7 Provinces]

Hi there,

 

 

Here are the results of the tests with oil and varnish.

Only oil:

 

 

 

Varnish applied over the oil:

 

 

 

Here I need to say that the deck is divided in 4 parts again. On the outer left part I applied 3 layers of varnish without sanding. The mid left part I sanded after the oil and before the varnish. The mid right part I sanded after the oil and before the 1^st and 2^nd coat of varnish. The outer right part I sanded before every coat of varnish (3 times).

 

I like the unsanded but varnished part (outer left part) best. It seems that sanding counteracts the effect of the oil and the trenails are almost not visible anymore. Varnish has, to some extent, the same effect unfortunately. But, on the left most part trenails can still be seen and I think they should, realistically, probably not be more visible than that.

[schnu]

Those are some interesting tests, I didn`t know it would make such a subtle difference, I always thought one was shiny and the other one mat, but now I see it depends on angle/sanding and oiling. Although I didn`t quite understand, what is the difference between oil and varnish? Does oil affect the wood colour? The scale problems are even worse than in my build  . Are there any doors supplied in the kit? If so how high are they (according to the scale?). It`s a shame that kit manufacturers mess the scale up. I can`t imagine myself how they could get the wrong scale..

[7 Provinces]

Hi schnu, thanks for stopping by in my log 

Yes there is a big difference between oiling and varnishing and it doesn't stop there. You can also wax the wood, stain it, and and and.

I am really not an expert on this but I came to the idea of oiling wood because of two tables that I have which are made from nut wood, which I have oiled.

The main difference to varnish is that the oil is sucked into the wood where varnish is, like paint, a layer on the wood. So the wood keeps its natural feeling when you touch it. It still feels more or less like untreated wood. Also, when you scratch it (lightly), you can just sand the area a bit, oil it again and you'll see no damage. When you scratch the varnish or paint, you will probably have to sand the whole object and varnish or paint the whole object again to make it look like it did before.

There are different oils you can buy and you will find that most of these will make the wood look more "lively" by enhancing the contrast. So, if the wood has a nice structure, you will see it better after oiling. This is generally not the case when varnishing (in my limited experience). However, varnishing seals off the wood which oil does not. Like Julian already remarked, oiling may need or generally needs to be repeated every so often. Hence my attempt to oil and then varnish.

As to the scale, yes it's a drag. I suspect the source of the errors to be quite a wide range, from "human error" to the producer of the kit just refitting a similar old kit with some changes and sell it as a model of the new ship. In my case, there probably were several schooners around with rough similarities to the Bluenose. Maybe they just took the drawings of one of these, made some changes for the "known specifics of the Bluenose" and called it the Bluenose. I don't know. Another likely case it that at this scale some things need to be simplified and there are different ways to do this. In the end I fear it is a question of budget. It takes a lot of time and money to do the research and there is always a point where a company says the budget is used up and the rest of the research needs to be replaced by assumptions. This sometimes leads to odd choices I think. And is a contrast to the world of their customers the modelers, which generally do not want to rush but instead take the time to get the details right.

 

Anyway I try to take it lightly and enhance the model where I feel I can do it and where it makes sense  

In that sense: I did not measure the door yet   

[schnu]

Thank you for all that information, I might actually reconsider the finish of my ship. Do you think that the oil will still loose the effect even with the varnish? Have you tried using way? (I think it also seals of the wood, but I am not sure). I haven`t seen the charcoal idea before, although it did bring back some bad memories. Last year in school we had to draw with charcoal and every time I touched the picture the charcoal the drawing would get messy ( I don`t know the correct expression). Did the charcoal dust not blacken the rest of the planks while sanding? On the pictures everything seems to be alright.  

 

The explication you have for the errors that the manufacturer did wore quite interesting. I guess today it is always about the money and making the most profit   .

[7 Provinces]

Schnu, the other side of the story is that any company must make profit, otherwise it has no reason to exist and will go bankrupt sooner or later. My point is just that this necessity does, in my opinion, not quite fit to the needs of a model builder. But, as a model builder, you have the possibility to invest time (and money) to enhance your model. I just think that sometimes the choices made by the companies are a bit awkward. I would rather have them leaving things less detailed or even incomplete (for the modeler to work out or enhance) then have them make things more detailed but just plain wrong...

 

About the oil: I used hard oil (hartöl / huile dure) by Auro which I bought in Bern, but I am quite sure another furniture oil will do as well. Auro is just less toxic  . In my last experiment I have first oiled the wood and then varnished it (over the oil). The effect of the oil was reduced (or masked?) a bit by the varnish but it still turned out well enough for my purpose where I did not sand. The part which I sanded after oiling and before varnishing lost the effect of oiling. Now after a week or two it still looks good to me so I am going to use that technique. I would recommend for you to do a little test as well before you do the whole ship. you never know how well your wood responds and it would be a shame to redo the whole ship, wouldn't it? And a simple test does not take that much time (and can be fun as well, plus you learn  )

 

About the charcoal: well I did it the wrong way of course. I had to: since I have planked the deck almost 20 year ago (  I must be getting old) and there were no internet forums at that time and I completely trusted the (non-existent) manual, I did not do any caulking because I did not know. So I had to do it after the deck planks were on the deck, which complicates the thing a lot, since it is not easy to get the color between the planks. 

If you color the sides of the planks before planking the deck, you do not have this problem. I tested this in my last test as well.

Anyway, it it true that charcoal smears when you do not fix it with a spray after drawing. But there are "charcoal pencils" out there which are like a normal pencil to hold, so your hands won't get dirty using them and you will not make black stains on your ship (or elsewhere) with your fingers. Then, I found out during my test that the charcoal did not penetrate my wood (you might need to test this on yours), meaning that after sanding only lightly the excess charcoal was gone. It did, as far as I can see, not affect the rest of the planking (via the sanding dust for instance). But my wood is fairly dark so maybe it is just not enough to be seen on my wood. Again: test it and you'll know it 

 

Good luck! 

[schnu]

Yes you are right, they must do profit, but I was saying that maybe they should make a little less profit, but a better Kit (this would be an utopia   ), it would ensure that the consumers will return to the same manufacturer and not go to the concurrence. Yes I suppose that testing would be a good idea (always is ^^), I remember at the beginning of my build when I did no testing, fitted the frames without looking if they had the right angle. Anyway I enjoyed reading the explications that you gave with the pictures of the tests.

 

 

I did the same error too and trusted the manual. In my manual I was told to glue the deck planking and then drawn nails and do the caulking. It was even written to draw perpendicular lines, so that the deck strips look like planks. Anyway now it is done and I don`t like the look of my deck.

 

 

I never saw these charcoal pencils, I wish my school had them    . I would love to do it how you did, but I already varnished the deck 3 months ago, but I might steal your Idea in the future if you don`t mind.

Edited November 6, 2014 by schnu

[7 Provinces]

Thanks schnu!

 

The pencils are PITT CHARCOAL by Faber Castell, you should be able to get them in a shop where they sell art equipment. I also did not know these before but came across them in search for a pencil which was "as black as possible" for my caulking. You won't find any blacker than charcoal 

 

I would do a lot different with my ship as well if I had to start over. But that is for a next project. I can only say that it's because of this forum that I learned so many new things. I am by far not the first one to experiment or write about decks here  , but reading the other contributions and seeing what other do let's say "inspired me" to go beyond what the manual says (that easy ) and do a bit of scratch building and testing myself.. 

And that makes the hobby that much more interesting!

[schnu]

You are right, It  makes it also more challenging and one can add a personal touch to his model. Did the stand on the first picture of the log come with the model?

[dgbot]

Jan,  I would not work up a sweat about the treenail contrast.  When the NRG had their conference in San Diego I took a couple photos of a couple of ships and their decks.  And from what I was able to see was that unless I squinted the treenails were not noticed.

 

 

 The treenail was covered by a plug that was cut from a board with the grain then hammered into place with the grain of the decking the reason for doing this was to prevent end grain from getting wet. On a model your scale at a distance of 3ft they would not be noticed.  

David B

Edited November 8, 2014 by dgbot

[7 Provinces]

Thanks David. Yes I suppose you are right and maybe I should not even be thinking of doing this. Still I have seen some nice examples on this forum which made me want to do this as well  . No really, I kinda like the looks of it. But you are right, realistically one would probably not see any of this in this scale and I should let the idea rest probably...

 

Well I haven't been able to work on her lately and I think this situation will continue for another few weeks, so: time to reflect and think about what I want to do. I have samples now to base my decision on. 

[7 Provinces]

After quite some time of not being able to spend even a minute on my Bluenose, I have finally found some time on the last day of my Christmas holidays to start working on her again. I decided that, before I finish the deck like in my tests I need to cut out the shapes of the deck structures. For which I would need to build the deck structures first.

As luck would have it, the 2 mm. plywood from the box on which I find the parts, partly drawn, partly cut, are warped in such a way that I can only use the smallest parts as it is. So I first need to straighten that out. So I soaked the plywood and pressed it under weight only to return the next morning and see that the wood had gotten mildewed. Well, not good of course  . So I washed and disinfected the wood and tried again, now adding paper towels to deal with the moist and changing these every few hours or so. I am beginning to think I would be better off building these parts from scratch next time.

Waiting for the wood to dry and hopefully have the right shape (flat  ) I started to rebuild part 29 from scratch. Part 29 from the kit does not have the right shape (see also my 2nd post, point 3c and picture 5). It does not fit the hull really well and it is not like what I find on pictures of the Bluenose.

On this picture you see piece 29 lying on the picture and two possible shapes to replace it with made out of paper just next to it.

 

 

 

The bottom shape is more or less drafted from a plan which I received from Matija (thanks Matija) and just above that my own interpretation from looking at the pictures and my model. As you can see I made the middle part much wider since from the pictures this seems to be about 1/3 of the width of the total shape.

The result is shown on the pictures below: on the left side the original part, on the right the new part. The first picture shows the parts on the photo as comparison, the second picture shows the parts on the model.

 

 

[Mfelinger]

Jean-Willem

 

I am glad that you continued with the model. I hope it will my data help to build this model until the end.

I look forward to continuing your log.

 

Matija

 

[7 Provinces]

Thanks Matija.

Your input already helped: I was able to compare the shape of the part I created in my last post and I have seen from the drawings that the shape of the deck structures are not right in the kit.

Further, I found from comparison with the old photos that the basic shape and size of the structures on the plan you sent me seem to be accurate even if some details do not match the photos of the Nova Scotia Archives. I am still waiting for both the Bluenose book and the American Fishing Schooners book, but I will probably use your plan for the shape of the deck structures and the old photos for the detailing.

[Mfelinger]

You're right, the kit is not well made with the original boat. I think you have a new plan that is consistent.

Have a nice work.

 

Matija

Edited January 6, 2015 by Matija

[schnu]

I hope that the plywood sheet will flatten. Even if it does not it, would not be terrible. After all, the piece you exchanged looks much better than the other one. I particularly like the two little columns (Do not know the right name) in the middle and how they fit right in place.

[mrcc]

Good job Jan-Willem!

 

I like what you are doing with regards to research and getting the most accurate look possible for your build.

I think I should be doing more research... You did such an easy modification (new piece) from the kit and it looks so much better

 

Happy New Year!