moha81 #1 Posted March 8, 2013 Hello guys, After a big skip I returned to ship modeling and I continue the drawing and building the 1666 Eendracht, the last flagship of admiral de Ruyter. With my friend we built some machines and soon I'm going to have the plan of the hull. Cheers, Gyula Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anja #2 Posted March 8, 2013 Hello Gyula, It's great you are building the Dutch flagship Eendracht (Eendragt). But I want to ask you something if I may. What is your source or reference to draw the plans to build this ship? On The VOC site I couldn't find the Eendracht from 1666. As far as I know the Eendracht exploded during a battle with the Royal Charles in the Battle of Lowestoft on June 13, 1665. The explosion killed the admiral and all but 5 of the crew. I wish you good luck building the Eendracht. I will follow your build with great interest. Happy modeling and take care, Anja Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wim500 #3 Posted March 8, 2013 Anja, The Eendracht 1666 was an existing ship of the Maas Admirality http://books.google.nl/books?id=HoPlJ_HsW88C&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=eendracht+1666&source=bl&ots=rJ3lFPke6a&sig=Xnk_qfuPk_z0OsIlIbrlQ1rrcF0&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=Tvs5Uab9LrHe7AbTzYGYBg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=eendracht%201666&f=false Looking forward to this build Gyula. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anja #4 Posted March 8, 2013 Thanks for the link Wim. Strange thought that the VOC site doesn't mention it. Sorry Gyula, we let you get on with your plans now. Take care, Anja Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dida #5 Posted March 8, 2013 Hi, Gyula! Will you post some pictures about preparing the plans? I wish you successful work. Looking forward to see your pictures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amazone #6 Posted March 8, 2013 wow and in shaal 1:38 thats e uge ship 119 cm long over the stevens. i which you al the best whit the build and wil come see how you evolv in the building proses Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #7 Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) Hi all, Thanks for the wishes. Anja, a lot of ships named Eendracht existed, this one is the sister of the Zeven Provincien from 1666. Concerning the dimensions, it is quite similar to the 7P, it is 160 feet long 42.5 feet wide (for the 7P the corresponding dimensions are 165 and 43 feet, respectively). According to these, I can use several sources: - original contract of the Zeven Provincien - G. C. Dik: De Zeven Provincien - the line drawings of the Zeven Provincien by Cor Emke - Werner Bruns: Geschichte und Rekonstruktion der Eendracht von 1654, Das Logbuch, 2005-2006 (two parts, this is about the former Eendracht) - drawings of Willem van de Velde (from the NMM Greenwich) - Cornelis van Yk: De Nederlandsche scheepsbouw-konst open Gestelt, originally published in 1697 (I have the facsimile edition No. 26) - Kroum Nocolaev Batchvarov: The framing of seventeeth-century man-of-war in England an other northern european countries (master of arts thesis, Texas A&M University, 2002) Other resources, which discuss mainly the northerd dutch building style: - Nicolaes Witsen: Aeloude en hedendaegsche scheepsbouw en bestier (1671) - Herman Ketting: Prins Willem (Hinstorff Verlag, 1979)- Heinrich Winter: Der holländische Zweidecker von 1660/1670 (Hinstorff Verlag, 1978) - A. J. Hoving: A Pinasship of 134 feet, published in The Model Shipwright No. 60 (1987) Maybe some other things that help me to compare and consider the dimensions. There were a lot of informations and a long discussion about the ship with Jan and Amazone before the former site disappeared Cheers, Gyula Edited March 8, 2013 by moha81 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #8 Posted March 8, 2013 wow and in shaal 1:38 thats e uge ship 119 cm long over the stevens. i which you al the best whit the build and wil come see how you evolv in the building proses Hello amazone, good to hear from You. I could download the drawings from the book of Dik and it helps a looooot in identifying old dutch expressions. So far it will be really helpful, and thank You again for your help. I'm drawing the waterlines now from the drawings of Emke and Dik, and they serve perfectly. I had to re-draw and re-make the Rondsomhouten, but now it is fine. Pictures coming soon... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michiel #9 Posted March 9, 2013 Looking forward to you build.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #10 Posted March 9, 2013 Ok, how can I insert a picture here (not just as an attachment)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amateur #11 Posted March 9, 2013 Thanks for the link Wim. Strange thought that the VOC site doesn't mention it. Sorry Gyula, we let you get on with your plans now. Take care, Anja That's not strange: the Eendracht 1666 was not owned by the VOC, but was a ship of the admirality (like e.g. the Zeven Provincien was.) Up till 1650 many of the war ships were adapted merchant ships owned by the VOC, and rented out to the navy... Jan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #12 Posted March 9, 2013 OK, here are some pictures from the current stage. 1 avsjerome2003 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amateur #13 Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Hi Gyula, I see in your picture of the frames the quarter circle in the lower ricgt corner. Van Yk also shows these little circles. But what I don't understand: what diameter is used for these little circles? Second remark: your gunports in the stern seems to be placed quite high under the 'heckbalk'. Will the gunports lids fit under the transom? btw do you know this link: http://www.otteblom.nl/ It's in Dutch, but you will certainly understand the drawings Jan Edited March 9, 2013 by amateur Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amazone #14 Posted March 9, 2013 hi moha i probely gonne start building the utrecht somwere begin april, i did most of the plans alraydy ( on paper) bicos i dond know how the use e drawing program . first i wantet the do the eendracht aswel but i chose fore e diferend ship 145 foot . the gunport seems ok i think the lids can be atats on the hekbalk ( i gonne chek that ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #15 Posted March 9, 2013 Hi Gyula, I see in your picture of the frames the quarter circle in the lower ricgt corner. Van Yk also shows these little circles. But what I don't understand: what diameter is used for these little circles? Second remark: your gunports in the stern seems to be placed quite high under the 'heckbalk'. Will the gunports lids fit under the transom? btw do you know this link: http://www.otteblom.nl/ It's in Dutch, but you will certainly understand the drawings Jan hi moha i probely gonne start building the utrecht somwere begin april, i did most of the plans alraydy ( on paper) bicos i dond know how the use e drawing program . first i wantet the do the eendracht aswel but i chose fore e diferend ship 145 foot . the gunport seems ok i think the lids can be atats on the hekbalk ( i gonne chek that ) Hi, I hope You remember that we had long-long discussions before on the dimensions. Unfortunately, I did not made a copy of those, so they are lost... . Jan, the radius of the little quarter circle together with other lengths denoted by little green lines in the drawing were taken from one of the examples of Yk's book, scaled to the present width and height of the ship. I don't remember the exact location in the book, but I did a lot of drawings before, if You can remember. The dimensions of the gunports were taken also from the book of Yk, page 61 and 65: they were chosen to be square-shaped WITH the rabbet of the transom, so the "holes" are a little bit wider than high. The lids're going to lay on the lower rabbet of the transom, while the upper rabbet establish a place for mounting the hinges and opening the lids. This is quite similar to the solution can be seen on the 7P replica. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #16 Posted March 10, 2013 Here are some new pictures of the 'Rondsomhouten' and the 'Wrangens'. I'm done with the half of the rounded wood, I did it by hand with a sharp knife. Now it can be seen the difference between a usual, simplified planar mirror and this one. Do not pay attention to the blue lines drown on the lower part of the rounded wood, those are just signs for where I should not go with the knife. 1 druxey reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtaylor #17 Posted March 10, 2013 Nice carving work. And with out using any power tools either. Impressive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anja #18 Posted March 11, 2013 Hello Gyula, Very impressive indeed, using just a sharp knife. What kind of knife did you use? And today is your birthday. Have a great day. Take care, Anja Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #19 Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Nice carving work. And with out using any power tools either. Impressive. Thanks. "By hand" I meant that first I used power tools to cut and sand the rough shape of the parts. Then I carved the ends of the beams to fit into the rounded wood and then also carved the rounded wood to the correct shape. I use power tools when it is possible and reasonable, but there are two things: The flat we rent is really small (something like 49 square meters and I have 3 small kids ) so it is not possible to store and work with power tools making large noise and dust. I can do those jobs in my friend's workshop in another town... what I can do at home is final hand carvings, sawing and sanding, fitting and gluing the parts together, and, naturally, drawing the plans. And, moreover, in some cases (especially as making curved surfaces) I trust more in my hands than a power tool, so I rather take my time. Edited March 11, 2013 by moha81 1 mtaylor reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amateur #20 Posted March 11, 2013 Thanks for anmswering. Yes, I know the pictures by Van Yk. I was wondering whether or not you found anything written on the dimensions and scale of the lines and circles in these pictures. But apparently: no rules given by Van Yk. Jan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #21 Posted March 11, 2013 Thanks for anmswering. Yes, I know the pictures by Van Yk. I was wondering whether or not you found anything written on the dimensions and scale of the lines and circles in these pictures. But apparently: no rules given by Van Yk. Jan Yes, yes, there are no rules, just 1-2 examples. I know that it is somewhat artificial, so I tried to use Emke's drawing as a "guide to the eye". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drazen #22 Posted March 17, 2013 Hello Gyula, I came a little late to this log, but want to mention that I was also playing with the thought to build the former Eendracht (1653), but decided to go with my second choice - De Zeven Provincien (1665) since there were many people did (still doing) a lot of research on this ship before. I still am having a lot to do on my 7P with checking what could be right - and will never be 100% right I know. ... However, how lucky I would be to see these 17th century ships being well documented and built. I wish you a lot of luck and patience with coming as close as possible to the ship you have chosen to present. I admire the Artitec with their diorama. They made so many of these ships in quite nice representation - although not of wood, but it looks great indeed. I personally do not stick too much on Dik, Winter and specially not on Ketting, except for some details. Dik should had done a good job on rigging I heard. The lines by Cor Emke are definitely a good starting point. Also the knowledge by Ab Hoving represented in his books is very fundamental. I will follow your progress with interest. All the best Dražen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #23 Posted April 4, 2013 Hello Gyula, I came a little late to this log, but want to mention that I was also playing with the thought to build the former Eendracht (1653), but decided to go with my second choice - De Zeven Provincien (1665) since there were many people did (still doing) a lot of research on this ship before. I still am having a lot to do on my 7P with checking what could be right - and will never be 100% right I know. ... However, how lucky I would be to see these 17th century ships being well documented and built. I wish you a lot of luck and patience with coming as close as possible to the ship you have chosen to present. I admire the Artitec with their diorama. They made so many of these ships in quite nice representation - although not of wood, but it looks great indeed. I personally do not stick too much on Dik, Winter and specially not on Ketting, except for some details. Dik should had done a good job on rigging I heard. The lines by Cor Emke are definitely a good starting point. Also the knowledge by Ab Hoving represented in his books is very fundamental. I will follow your progress with interest. All the best Dražen Hello Drazen, I also follow your log, I'm really interested in! Thank for the wishes. Anyway, sorry for not writing so frequently and not answering right on time, but I have bunch of other things to do I'm always searching for the possibility how to steal a little bit of time. I wish all the best for You too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #24 Posted April 4, 2013 Hello guys, New pictures of the transom: 1 Foremast reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drazen #25 Posted April 4, 2013 Hello Drazen, I also follow your log, I'm really interested in! Thank for the wishes. Anyway, sorry for not writing so frequently and not answering right on time, but I have bunch of other things to do I'm always searching for the possibility how to steal a little bit of time. I wish all the best for You too. I know this feeling - being boss of my own company (innovation management), making De Zeven Provincien, new high end Dynaudio loudspeaker boxes, bow for shooting, sports, and many other things ... at least, I feel no boring Dražen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drazen #26 Posted April 4, 2013 I like your transom a lot. It looks real. Which size is it? Which wood do you use? Dražen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #27 Posted April 4, 2013 The scale is 1:38, so the transom is 22.5 cm wide . The dark wood is walnut, I'm going to use it basically for planking above the waterline. The light is hungarian ash, it will be used below the waterline. The inner structure and everything else is going to be made from pear, apple, cherry and plum. I like vary the woods and leave them in their original form. Many-many other woods exist besides pear, ebony and boxwood... and they are far more not as good as preferred, I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #28 Posted April 4, 2013 Hi all, Some additional pictures. The keel is set. It thickens to the middle from the stem and the stern. Naturally the keel is not horizontal and also it has a really small curvature. That's why it was really tricky to form its 3 individual parts. Below the main deck I don't want to work out anything, so it is going to be a POB. Sorry for the bed, apparently it was the only place in the flat where this monster could take place. Usually it wastes time on the top of the bookshelf. So what I do not have at the moment is: place. I work on the plans at home, on the parts at the workshop of my friend, and I finalize and put the parts together at home again, on the dinner table... I can sand outside the flat on a really small entrance terrace, so on. But works, that's the point Gyula 1 avsjerome2003 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piet #29 Posted April 5, 2013 Hello Gyula, Great to see you back on the forum and with a very beautiful ship too. What you have been able to do so far is just outstanding. I'm looking forward to more progress pics. Cheers, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moha81 #30 Posted April 5, 2013 Hi Gyula, good to see you back. Impressive work! Janos Hello János, It is also good to 'see' You again! I'm quite sad about the crash of the former page, especially as the long discussions about the plans, because I did not make a copy of those and some informations are just lost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites