Mike Dowling

@Mike

 

"Not sure I understand your post dafi even if Canute likes it !"

 

It was just the hint, that one of the best kits in my humble opinion is the 1:100 Heller plastic kit !

 

And I am talking from own experience :-)

 

Cheers, DAniel

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-heller-plastic-to-victory-and-beyond/page-1

I am building the Caldercraft Version.
it is a costly kit certainly but I think you get what you pay for.
It seems to me that all the parts are specific, no generally available parts.
The three manuals are well written but do assume a reasonably experienced builder.
18 full size drawings, very helpful
My timber was all good quality, CC replaced one sheet of cut items due to a split.
many sheets of etched brass.
The upper hull templates for first planking mean that gun ports get correctly aligned which is a huge benefit.
All in all it would be my recommendation.
 
Nick

Mike , I can,t remember exactly what i payed ,but i bought it from Cornwall Model Boats and at present it can be bought for £286.00 and i assume free delivery , i think that was roughly what i paid nearly 2 years ago .
When you say larger scale . If you mean the overall size of the finished model ,it is hugh ,not only will you need a lot of build space but i have read where some builders of the CC Victory ran into problems with display space ,never mind the cost of a display case £500----- £1000  .partly the reason for my "half rigging thingy "
If you mean the 1:75 scale i know i wouldn,t go any smaller like 1:90 or 1:100 because of eyesight and extremely small parts  , IMO. My last build was a 1:64 Cruiser by CC and  i find very little difference in part sizes detail etc .
I did complain in the early part of my log about this kit ,lack of instructions and ply parts etc but it is advertised for the experienced builder and you get what you pay for !! Your painting skills should mean that you could build straight from the box if you wish ? If you are considering building with a natural wood finish like mine then be prepared to spend at least the same again as the kit price on timber and other extras . I wonder could the CC version be built with a natural wood finish straight from the box ?? I doubt it .
 
Without flattery it is very hard to say if you will make a decent jod of it ??  Of course you will . I only wish you had bought yours first so i could have got some tips from you .If you want to build an authentic Victory with every bucket and nail  in exactly the correct  place your probably better starting with the CC version but if you are open to artistic interpitation and a challange at a budget price go for the Billings . Part of the reason i bought the Billings was i wasn,t sure i had the ability .I,m glad now i did i don,t think i would ever fork out big money for a kit again .       If this long winded reply is not enough please feel free to ask or PM me if you like. Let me know what you decide , if it,s less than £300 you get a lot of kit for the money ??

Hi matey !! I have just found a Billing kit like yours at a not bad price. Should I be brave and go for it ? Does the large scale make it easier or harder do you think ?  What do you reckon would be a good price as, not wishing to be too nosey I have no idea what yours cost.
Also, and not too much of the flattery, do you think I could make a decent job of it ? Yours is so brilliant I am not sure I could do nearly as well.

Hi matey !! I have just found a Billing kit like yours at a not bad price. Should I be brave and go for it ? Does the large scale make it easier or harder do you think ?  What do you reckon would be a good price as, not wishing to be too nosey I have no idea what yours cost.
Also, and not too much of the flattery, do you think I could make a decent job of it ? Yours is so brilliant I am not sure I could do nearly as well.

My  mistake George ,when i reread you did say lanyard seizings . Anyway just in cases i tied a couple to see how they look 
 

 

 
I think the light lanyards and black seizing is my preference ?

Hi all ,as i promised in an  earlier post i have been trying to keep my everchanging ideas to myself untill i have something definite to report .   I have for some reason been keen to get started the rigging ,maybe just a need for a change ?? As i still have this daft idea in my head about only building to the first stage of the masts i want to do as good a job on the limited rigging as i can , (good intentions ) . I,m slowly learning that what i want and what i can actually achieve are not always the same , i tend to start of with great ideas and finish up settling for what my abilities allow . Enough excuses !!!.
First thing was to decide on the color of the rigging , should be simple ,dark for anything that would have been tarred and light for everything else ?  Normally this is the rule ,but because i,m going for the natural look i have decided to go for all natural color thread with perhaps a few exceptions .
I decided to use CC thread ,easily available ,less fluff ,all size options, fairly cheap as i expect a lot of waste !!
I have been advised to start rigging from the missen mast and intend doing so but as the Foremast was the only one i had ready i thought i would experiment on it ,plus it,s probably the easiest worked on . My next job was to learn a bit about serving, seizing,worming and all the other new stuff i am going to need . 
Then i had to decide on what thickness of rigging to use . 
CC recomended 1.3 for the shrouds , i found this looked oversized and reduced it to 1.0 but this is a personal decision and could yet prove wrong . this meant i also reduced the main stay from 1.6 to 1.3 .      All serving was done with 0.10 
Asyou will see in the following pics nothing has been permenantly fixed but i wanted to dryfit as much as possible before i make any final decisions !
 

 
Its important to keep the loop around the mast as tight as possible to get the shrouds to sit correctly 
 

 
Im not 100% sure about the black worming on the main stay but think it helps to highlight it ?? The spliceing of the eye and mouse need reworking although they may look better when tightened ?
 

 

 

 
Although i,m using LONGRIDGE  ANATOMY  as a guide and find it very use full i still intend keeping the rigging as simple as possible ,as some will have noticed i decided to leave off the burton pendants .
 
sorry for the long post but i tried to remember anything that might be relevant 
 
I couldn,t resist tieing a couple of the lanyards to see how the would look,been wondering if the 3 seizings should be done in black ??
Progress should speed up a bit now that i have the look i,was after !!!
 

Tks for the kind comments ,thats all the motivation i need !!!!!!!!!

Lovely build and truly an inspiration for my Victory. Keep up the great work!
Ian

hello Boyd,
 
I love your work. It´s really beautiful! You give me so much inspiration to keep on building my model :-)
 
Keep on your good work!!!
 
- Heinz -

Quite a beauty!
The detail is showing!
Marc

I thought it was time for a small update just to prove i haven,t gone away . Decided i would not post pics of my numerous and everchanging ideas as it gets confusing ,and as i,m now at the mast and rigging stage things are confusing enough ??? . After several variations on the mast platforms i have finaly decided on a finnished plan . Everything except the mast rings is scratched as usual with ideas taken from books and other build logs ,so some of it is authentic but most artistic !!!!!!! 
 

 

 

 

 
I am now trying various colors for the rigging and will probably stick to a light color but who knows ??? trying serving with different colors to make it stand out more but will post progress later . Having Fun .

The paddle wheel is done! Here's how I approached it:
 

 
While the Bertrand's wheels didn't survive to be recovered, one of the wheel hubs did, so we know the wheel had thirteen spokes. Using the estimated wheel diameter of 18', I laid out a template on my computer of 13 evenly divided spokes with a scale diameter of 18', and printed out five of them. These would form the basis of my wheel.
 
Meanwhile, I chose a dowel of the correct thickness for an axle. Then, for the hubs, I glued two pieces of styrene together, traced a series of circles of the right diameter (based on the recovered hub), and drilled axle holes through them. Then I cut out the rough circles with a hobby knife, smoothed them round with file and sandpaper, and painted them a dull metal black.
 

 
Apologies for the quality of this photo, but it shows the assembled wheels. I mounted each paper pattern with a pin at center, then laid thin strips of double-sided tape along  each spoke. This let me set the spokes in exactly the right orientation, before attaching them with carefully cut and fitted frame pieces. A careful look will also notice the inner ends of the spokes sanded to a slight angle to make them all fit together at the hub. On the real thing, the hub would have had sockets to hold each spoke, but I didn't think I could simulate that acceptably at this scale, so didn't. Better no detail than bad detail, in my opinion. As you'll see, it's almost impossible to tell once the wheel is finished. Removing the wheels from the double-sided tape was tricky, and I broke one by being too aggressive. It was fixed.
 
After sanding and shaping with a file, I painted these with diluted red paint. A bit too diluted, as I overdid it on several wheels and the diluted paint dissolved the wood glue holding these together and the wheels began to fall apart. With some very careful reassembly, a coat of glue along all surfaces, and some appropriate riverboat language, I salvaged the wheels no worse for the wear. Then I attached each hub, lightly weathered everything with brown pastel, and was ready to move on.
 

 
Now the real fun began. I carved the pillow blocks which support the axle, painted these and the axle, and began assembly. I'd wanted the wheel to turn, so had no intention of gluing the wheels onto the axle. I strung all five wheels loosely along the axle, glued on the pillow blocks, and glued the whole assembly to the support arms on the hull. Above you see me test-fitting the first paddle planks. I marked a few of these with the exact locations of each wheel, and clamped them on to hold the whole structure stable. Then I started gluing on other planks, all of which had been pre-painted at the same time as the wheels. 
 

 
Here's the hedgehog effect of the wheel covered in clamps. I glued every other plank to give the clamps room, then went back and filled in the gaps when the first round was done. Then I did the second, outer layer of planks. This went quickly and easily.
 

 
And here's the final result. The five wheels are near perfect copies of each other, such that the planks lined up perfectly. Another reason I left the wheels to turn freely on the hub, was to ensure I could get the best possible alignment between them. There were a couple spokes not quite right, a legacy of the dissolved glue and repair, but I can easily turn the wheel to hide them down by the rudder. It's really quite fun to sit there and turn the wheel gently. I may want to add some more detail, such as the bolts and straps that hold the paddles to the wheels, and some detail to the outer hubs, but not right now.
 
Someday it would be fun to build working machinery for such a paddle wheel, but this wasn't the project. The driving arms will attached permanently to the axle, and will not be in motion; only the wheel itself moves, unattached to the axle. It's good enough for me. 
 
I think it looks pretty neat with the wheel on, a real step forward toward looking like a steamboat. Now I'm off on vacation, two weeks hiking in Yellowstone National Park in northwestern Wyoming. As we're both former geologists, and Mrs Cathead worked at the park for three seasons many years ago, we're quite excited to return. On the way, we're stopping at the Bertrand museum at DeSoto National Wildlife Refuge just north of Omaha, Nebraska, a place I've been many years ago but am now very excited to return to. The museum is at the location of Bertrand's sinking, and is full of recovered cargo from the boat and various other exhibits. I'm also hoping to collect some driftwood and sand from the Missouri River at that location for use in a future display base. 
 
So this build will be on hold for a bit, but for a good cause. 

Excellent build Cathead. I finally got caught up on your log and it's very impressive!
 
My experience with steamboats has been riding on them with my grandma years back. There's nothing like riding one up the Columbia River, which is home to many prehistoric looking sturgeons.
 
So my input will be little beyond the admiration of a beautiful boat and a cheering squad on the side lines. One thought I had, budget and time permitting, is to make a second, framed only. Now that you've mastered that part, it could be displayed to give viewers a completely unrestricted look at the impressive internal structure(time and budget permitting).
 
I spent my two cents so I'll sit back, shut up and admire your progress.

The standard of your workmanship continues to amaze me, it really is quite amazing. I love open models and the way you are doing this is brilliant. I shall keep watching with envy at your skill !

Hi Al,
 
The mis-alignment will be very noticeable later on, unfortunately. A perfect reason NOT to use CA glue for this step. PVA would have been a far better option, allowing you plenty of time for re-alignment and even de-bonding altogether if needed.
 
You may be able to de-bond the joints with Acetone, but it'll be difficult - plenty of applications will be needed. PVA can be de-bonded with Isopropyl Alcohol quite easily. It may be a better option to fill the hole and re-drill it.
 
I suggest you DON'T use CA for anything other than bonding metal to wood (and even then only for things like fixing eyebolts to a deck for example) or for making "needle points" in line when feeding through blocks.
 
Lots of luck.
 
 Danny

Part of the reason i asked ,was that if you do not intend building straight from the box and not painting ,you will probably find you have to replace a lot of the timber and scratch build many parts to suit the build . I know i have spent more than the difference in price of the Billings compered to the CC , but had i went with the CC I may also have had to replace quite a few parts as well ??  I don;t mean to bring it all down to money but why pay for stuff you may not use !! eg the copper plates i believe come as standard on most kits but are you going to use them ???. i,m only expressing my opinion and have no experience of the CC kit which seems to be the prefered Victory kit and with much better fittings and instructions as others will undoubtly be advising you and had i been more confident was probably the one i would have bought ,although glad now i didn,t . As for your ability to better my ploughmans efforts your past builds easily answer the question  . Hopefully others with more experience will be able to give better advice and i suppose it depends how much bashing you want to do .Good luck 
 
Boyd.

Not necessarily! Having seen your brilliant work it is more than tempting but I am not at all sure I could do as good a job as yours. As they say on TV 'other kits are available' and it would be interesting to get an idea of other peoples thoughts.
Like you I would try to do an un-painted finish as I love the wood and your build is testament to its beauty. 

Not necessarily! Having seen your brilliant work it is more than tempting but I am not at all sure I could do as good a job as yours. As they say on TV 'other kits are available' and it would be interesting to get an idea of other peoples thoughts.
Like you I would try to do an un-painted finish as I love the wood and your build is testament to its beauty. 

Hello  just came across your build.   I have to say at 68 and your first ever build especialy on an advanced build kit  your doing a marvolous job.  best of luck with the rest of your build.

Hi Cathead
 
Really nice progress and she's looking great.
 
No need to worry about the "skewed priorities". We'll still be here waiting eagerly for your next update once you're able to get back into things.
 
All the best!
 
Patrick

Good to see you back ! Your deck looks lovely, well done sir!
 
Not sure I can help much with your bowsprit rigging as I know your rigging is different from mine anyway. I can send you a copy of my bowsprit plans if I haven't already if that is any help but I am sure someone who has done/is doing the AL version will be of more help than I.

The standard of your workmanship continues to amaze me, it really is quite amazing. I love open models and the way you are doing this is brilliant. I shall keep watching with envy at your skill !

The standard of your workmanship continues to amaze me, it really is quite amazing. I love open models and the way you are doing this is brilliant. I shall keep watching with envy at your skill !

Thanks all . 
 Mike i don,t understand the half mast thingy either ,but i,think i will give it a try ,it will mean leaving of any rigging above the first stage of the masts but not sure yet how it will work or look ???
 
George , that,s my problem i can,t decide !!!
 
Philip , Been considering the Confederacy ,no rigging ? or maybe redo my Cruiser ,or even thought about a scratch build POF ?????????.  If you need help go to Kevin,s build log , i spent a couple of hours there to day trying to figure out the masts and rigging ,Billings guide is to basic . His log is better than any instructions .Great work and a very helpfull log .. 
 
Keith . , The white wood provided is fine for painting but i thought the walnut looked better with varnish ,although there is a big variation in the colors of the different lengths i ordered so may have to order more . Brass rings also look good over the walnut !! The non painting rule means i will have to scratch the platforms etc which is another reason for the" part rigging thingy "  Of course there is always the chance it won,t work ?????