fnkershner

Here is my third and last (perhaps) attempt to duplicate the real 'block' at the bottom of the bentnick shroud.
 
I used a thicker wire, made two loops at the ends so a pin (nail) would fit through these two loops as well as an eye bolt. The bolt is still loose so I can swivel this around the pin. I drilled the larger hole after the wire was in place. I had a feeling that to do the drilling before hand would cause the wood to split.
This should be as close as I can get to the real thing. But then I think, 'But nobody is going to see this'.
So be it, but it is fun trying.
    

Well, some actual work to show you!
 
I'm continuing to make frame blanks and rough cut the frames, but I've now made my framing jig and have actually raised the first frame.  This is the forward most square frame, so with that in place I can start to finish off and fit the cant frames.
 

The framing jig ready for business
 


The 'backbone' in the jig
 


First frame fitted
 
The entire frame will be cleaned up after all the frames are fitted and faired.
 
John

Here is a pic of what I have accomplished thus far. 12 ribs down, 20 to go!
 

It's finally warmed up to get out in the garage and peel some more wood off the Atlantic half hull.  She is starting to shape up, with some more time at the bench she should be ready for the final sanding soon.  I have to admit I didn't thing working on the Atlantic and the ELCO PT at the same time would be this much of a challenge.  The weather has made most of the decisions of which boat will be worked on at a specific time!    
 
Cheers,
Tim
 

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
 

I belong to a club that races R/C sloops. If you have R/C questions I would be glad to help. As to the type of ship you are trying to build. I would look around this forum for the build logs of Jerry Todd. He has built several R/C vessels from the same period. Sorry I can't help with your math.

I have begun placing the ribs, unglued,  in their perspective slots, starting from the stern.
 
I have a question though for those of you in the know... What are those two pieces sitting on the table to, and where do they go?
 
I imagine they are a part of the stern gallery framing, but I cannot find notches on the stern to help in their placement.
 
Any help would be so much appreciated!

I got some more brass today and I am enjoying working with it.
 
So this is how I made the collars, I have not made a kit for a few years and since this isn't a kit I have nothing to remind me of the correct names.
 
First pic shows one of the original collars with the grooves cut into it to accept the eyes and hold them while soldering. This didn't work because they were too unstable and the eyes kept falling away so I came up with a better way which needed a larger diameter brass. It also meant that because I wasn't cutting grooves into the collar I could make them thinner as you can see in the pic. Three smaller ones for the top masts and one larger one for the bow sprit jib boom.
 

 
 
So, first step, in the lathe drill out to 5.5mm internal diameter then turn down to 6.5mm external diameter to get the collar,  then using larger stock drill it to 6.5mm internal diameter and turn down to 10.5mm external diameter thus leaving a cylinder with walls 2mm thick. Then remove the stock from the lathe and secure it in the vice with the machined end facing up and carefully cut down into it with a hacksaw twice, once either side of centre with approx 1.5mm between the two cuts then rotate the piece 90degrees and repeat. Once the four vertical cuts have been done cut horizontally into the piece which is to be removed, just a bit, then using long nosed pliers take hold of the scrap and bend it outward til it breaks off leaving this.
 

 
insert centre section and solder
 

 

 
The reason the "legs" are longer than they need to be is to stop the heat from the gas torch going into the stock too quickly which would make soldering difficult because I would have had to apply much more heat. Note in the above pic the bright blue part of the flame, the very tip of that is the hottest part of the flame so you want that to be just touching the job as you heat it.
 
Now for those who think soldering is difficult and needs special fluxes etc, this really is not the case. I am using 40/60 resin cored solder. It is stonger than the normal 60/40, ie 60% lead and 40% tin and requires more heat but not so much as to need special equipment. I just use a hand held butane torch. The secret to successful soldering is cleanliness. All surfaces here were freshly machined without any cutting lubricants and I kept handling to a minimum to avoid contamination from touching.
 
Heat the opposite side to that being soldered where possible as solder runs to the heat. Apply heat for a little while then remove the flame - VERY IMPORTANT - if you leave the flame there it will burn the resin which polutes the surface. After removing the flame touch the solder to the joint and see if it melts easily, if so only a little is required and it should run into the joint, you may need to apply a little more heat to encourage it to run. I just worked my way around the piece doing each side of the tabs and when done I applied the flame directly to the solder for just long enough to melt it and then gently ran an old paint brush over it quickly to remove the excess solder. Molten solder will splatter so be careful where you do it.
 

 
A bit of a sand with the dremel and Robert's your mother's brother. I still need to drill the holes.
 

 

 
A little bit more brass work
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Trying to simulate Manila hemp or Hemp rope from around 1800 is difficult at best and I'll leave it to the historians of our group to advise which was used.  Manila Hemp (not truly a hemp since it's made from fibers of the Abaca plant) has been the favored fiber for marine cordage because of it's strength and resistance to salt water damage.  The middle fibers of the leaf stem produced colored line of the greatest strength, while the central core white fibers gave a white line of somewhat lesser strength.  The term Manila has almost become generic including Manila hemp or line used in marine cordage, but also Manila plus sisal, Manila plus jute, dyed Manila, bleached manila, Manila plus polyester, synthetic Manila, decorative manila, etc.  The color of Manila rope and hemp rope appear very similar.
 
The following photos show the variation of colors beginning with Manila hemp sold for rigging.
 

 
Additional photos of Manila line.
 

 
Storage of Abaca fiber for rope making
 

 
My attempts to simulate the color of Manila line were, I believe, a bit too dark. ( Number 5)  Adding a very light white-gray seems to have improved the appearance and added a bit of life to the rope. ( Number 6)  Equal parts, Brown Oak Wash (Model Master/Testors), Dust (Polyscale) and Universal Acrylic Thinner (Model Master/Testors).
 

 
Cheers, Gil
 
 
 
 

That's Right Chris! Go SEAHAWKS!!! Sorry Augie. but I think it would be best that you spend this afternoon on planking. You will be much happier.
 
PS Will someone (not me) please tell my wife the 49ers are not playing.

That's Right Chris! Go SEAHAWKS!!! Sorry Augie. but I think it would be best that you spend this afternoon on planking. You will be much happier.
 
PS Will someone (not me) please tell my wife the 49ers are not playing.

Hello Augie. Go Go Go Seahawks,time to get the workshop Kleenex at the ready(sob,sob) Oh the planking is truly brilliant.Ex seamate,Edwin.

That's Right Chris! Go SEAHAWKS!!! Sorry Augie. but I think it would be best that you spend this afternoon on planking. You will be much happier.
 
PS Will someone (not me) please tell my wife the 49ers are not playing.

At 350 hours into the build, it's time for an update.
 
The second belt of planking (of 3) has been completed from the garboard on up, P/S.
 

 

 

 
Since the next belt will close her up, I took the opportunity to give the inside 2 coats of diluted PVA.  I like the way that seals the inside and stiffens her up prior to sanding.  With the false deck in place I will obviously not be able to glue the center section but 'two outta three aint bad'.
 
Though most of the planking is 1/8 x 1/16 basswood, I've snuck in some tapered 3/16 x 1/16 in the stern to try and minimize the need for stealers.  Will definitely need about 2 drop planks up in the stem.
 
Next will be the 'Super Bowl of Planking'......the 3rd belt.  But not before the real game today.  My team is in it -- GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!
 
I'm hoping to leave this lower hull planking a natural, lighter color then that above the wales.  All depends on how this next step comes out  .  Should be there before Spring ---- at least according to today's Groundhog forecast.
 

I have had a very frustrating day of ship building. I am trying to make the eye collars for the bowsprit and top masts but the mill bits I have are no use in this application so I decided to turn the collars to size then slit them using the fine cutting blade for the dremel in the mill as a slot cutter.
 

 
The idea being that I could cut oversized eye pieces and stand them all up located in the slots and solder with a gas torch but even the light touch of the melting solder proved to destabilise the whole thing so it was a write off.
 
I ended up turning the collar first and centre drilling it to the size to fit the timber, the external diameter is approx an extra 2mm to give a 1mm wall to the collar then machining the eyes in a way that is too hard to understand from text so when I do the next ones I will take pics to show how I did it. I need to get a larger diameter brass first though.
 

 

Well, I've either finished the dories or gotten tired of them.  I'm finished with all the painting I plan on doing and started making the oars.  Apparently, the oars were stored in the top boat of the nested stack- at two sets per boat, and four boats per stack, that's 2X2X4=16 oars per stack or 32 oars I've got to carve!
 
I've already decided that since this was the early part of the 20th century, it is unrealistic to assume that the oars (or sweeps, if you prefer) were identical.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
I need some ideas on painting the oars.  Any ideas?  I'm thinking the "handles" black and the "blades natural" or perhaps white.  I'd appreciate input.
 
My first oar.  I'm a proud papa.

 
My first set setting by a stack of boats.

 
Woody the sailor looking things over.  The handles are thick for his hands.  If I get brave, I'll try and sand them down a bit further.

 
 
Oh, one more small point.  I followed the practicum on the benches in the dory, but the placement is incorrect.  They should have cutouts that capture the bracing on the sides to keep them from moving.  They were removable after all and it would have been foolish to mount them any other way.  Not a big thing, but one of those things I wish I had noticed earlier.

Hello all,
 
Here are some progress pictures.
Thank you.

...

Thanks guys for the helpful comments.
Popeye, As the TV add says: "You've got it."  From here on I'll pre-treat the lines.  It will be interesting being a paint, but as a wash and very dilute, it may not effect the flexibility as much.  I'll tell you later if I discover problems, flaking, etc.
Mark,  I rarely allow flash because it changes the entire color spectrum. I think it is likely as Daniel suggests, that the camera brightens the line compensating for the darker background.  Perhaps our cameras are getting too smart (Is it time for a professional photography course?)
Daniel, The effect on hanging ropes will become more apparent as I get further along.  This is all new ground for me.  I haven't noticed the wash making the fibers stand up.  In fact my early observation is the reverse.  The line looks better than the untreated line. (The third photo)
 
The following photos show the major color changes with different light.
1.   Taken with incandescent light
2.   Overcast daylight
 
The third photo to judge the effect of the paint wash on the line.
 

OK, so I made a boo-boo.    The sternpost is 2mm narrower than the thickness of the false keel. I made a note to taper the stern end of the false keel so it would be 2mm narrower than the sternpost. This way the first planking would terminate slightly below the surface of the sternpost with a little shaving of the plank ends.
I got side tracked thinking of so many other things to do that I forgot to do it before securing the sternpost.
I fixed it by tapering the false keel to the thickness of the sternpost and then cutting a rabbett 1mm deep along the edge of the false keel. The first planking will now terminate just below the surface of the sternpost as it is supposed to. The second layer of planking will form a smooth joint with the sternpost with a little tapering.
Thanks to Peter from Euromodel for pointing out the issue before I got too far along.
That makes 2 mistakes so far that I had to dig my way out of.  I hope there will be no more.
 
Vince P.

OK Robbyn, and Jim Lad. I have got off my design chair and done a little work today, just for you
The first pic is a bit out of focus but you can see well enough the pins I have installed to locate the top masts in the raised position.
 

 
Then I made the dolphin striker in the lathe, this is a very delicate operation because the thin piece of timber is so easy to break. First I gently turned the end down to 2mm diameter to accept the rigging hardware that I will make soon. Then using the Dremel and a bur bit while turning the piece I made the taper roughly. Then I used sandpaper wrapped around a piece of flat timber to smooth out and complete the taper. This whole process was done using my finger against the opposite side of the work as a sort of travelling steady to stop it from breaking. Then I used a triangular file to work the grooves into it.
 

 
Dolphin striker fitted and first coat of paint.
 

Few more photos.. few more mistakes
I am actually thinking I should get my next kit out and get up to the decking and fix all the mistakes I made on the siren that way I shouldn't forget.
 
The waterways are too close to the gun ports - I THOUGHT I made enough allowances when I added the deck - I didn't use the kit supplied timber - but I didn't make enough allowance. I am going to have to notch out the waterway under each port so they little supports that are strewn around the deck can be attached at sill level.
 
The deck - I tried a few things but ended up staining the edge strip as it was basswood and the deck boxwood. Instead of trying to make them match and not getting it - I went the other way and did the contrast thing. The alternative was waiting ages and ages for some boxwood wide enough to cut to shape. I was impatient
 
The black paint... way too glossy - and its called "dull black" - I actually went to the site and re-read the description - and it says its satin to match Victory (Admiralty Paints) - I am STILL waiting on my flat black paint - ordered in on 12th December... I might have to go the flat/mat varnish and order it from another supplier.  So all the black will be FLAT.. not this gloss....
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The nine pound carriage guns were made up in the same way as were the eighteen pounders. The caronades were made up in stages as shown in the photos, I first looked for the tackle arrangement and used the one that seems most common, the issue was the fixing of the front carriage pin it shows it pinned through the bulwark on the bottom of the gun port, the problem with this would be, in lowering the bottom of the port to keep the cartridge level, it would be to low and look wrong, so I looked at every photo of caronades I could find, on models, and as mounted on H M S Victory, and most had the front swivel pin going through a block mounted on the deck in front of the port, so that is how I built mine.I am just starting to rig them in place.
 
Carriage parts

 
assembling carriages


Carriages built up minus barrels and some rigging eyes

Extra rigging brackets from spruce and 3mm rings

Made up and painted

On deck working out how the rigging will run

Placing the stem and the real keel. The stem is solid walnut and 7mm thick. It is heavy and I didn't trust just a glue joint to hold it on, since much will be hanging off this piece including very large metal figures. I drilled 1.6mm holes from the outside into this and the false keel about 30mm deep. I inserted 1.5mm brass rods at the top, middle and bottom and drove them in below the surface with thick CA glue. If you look at the last photo, you can see one of these pins just below the surface. I did not worry about glue stains or the holes for the pins because the whole thing will be planked with walnut strips later on.  A very small amount of adjusting using a sanding wheel was necessary to match the curves of the false keel and the stem.
I also placed the 1.5mm pins in the keel piece as well. Since there was nothing to hold clamps to, I used some planking clamps I had bought which I could never get to work correctly. They did work for this however, so I got my money's worth afterall.  It is important to note that the plans call for making the keel from 3 pieces of lumber, but the kit comes with a single 6x7mm walnut board instead, that must be shaped into the keel. The last thing to do here is to attach the sternpost, but some shaping of the keel is necessary first.
 
Vince P.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I'll try not to be too technical then, you see the hypotenuse of the clew on the fore top stays'l is exponetially influenced by the amout of rum that is gone, why's the rum always gone?
 
Seriously though, while the maritime engineers ague between himself as to which is the best way to effect certain applications of force and leverage and the procurement officer is frantically trying to fullfil the engineers requests the shipwrights have been stood down. There are some things that lie where they left them like the almost finished grates, they just need to be cut to size when the helm is in place.
 

 
The stairs which are waiting to be cut to size to provide safe access and egress to the quarter deck and fo'csle.
 

 
A bunch of blocks......
 

 
A whole lot of plumbing, the running rigging will run in pipes below decks so I have a handful of 5/32 round brass tube which suits the K&S bender and one length of 3/16 tube which is a lovely fit over the 5/32 and will be cut into short lengths and used as couplings where needed and soldered into place.
 

 
The sails have also arrived, in kit form! This will test my feminine side, I have mums old sewing machine and a head full of half knowledge I gathered while married, my ex made some very nice quilts etc.
 

 
After a lot of web searching I think I have the sail winch servos on their way to me, they are all 6 turn servos but can be set to exactly how far I want each one to turn so I won't have to turn bespoke drums for each of them, I will still need to turn the complex drum for the stays'ls though. I will however need to redesign my aft deckhouse layout a bit but no biggie.
 
On an unrelated note, this was a little close to home as they say, glad they got on top of it very quickly.
 

As I said, this kit is closer to a scratch build than a kit build. Most kits come with provisions in the precut parts of the false keel and bulkheads for installing the bowsprit later on. This one does not. There is a certain point while constructing the hull that this must be addressed before things get covered up. Now is the time, even before placing the solid bow section, any planking at all, and before working on any of the decks above the lowest gun deck. With the bottom gun deck secured in place and the hull stringers secured, it is time to deal with the bowsprit. The plans show about a 40 degree angle running on top of the stem and down to a quasi bulkhead just behind bulkhead "E". This bulkhead must be fabricated and secured to the lower gun deck just behind bulkhead "E". A line is drawn on the stem where the bowsprit will rest and then a big piece of the stem has to be removed above this line. In addition, parts of bulkheads "F" and "E" have to be cut away to allow the bowsprit to pass through. Some supports have to be added to shore up the bulkheads that were cut. The bowsprit can now be dry fitted and beveled at the end to butt up against the added bulkhead and then removed and put away. Next up is to fit and secure the real stem, keel, and sternpost. They don't address these until way later, but they must be in place before the first planking, as the planks have to terminate on them at the bow, stern, and bottom of the hull.
 
Vince P.