Louie da fly

I wasn't satisfied with the larboard martnets so I started to try fixing them up. Bad mistake. I ended up stuffing them up and having to pull them off and re-do them completely. Sigh. You live and learn, and sometimes you just live without learning . . .
 
Larboard martnets from in front. You can see the little dabs of white glue at the joins. All seemingly going well. Little did I know . . .*


 

One thing, though. My bright idea of continuing the after martnets through the edge of the sail and using the same cotton to do the aft and fore martnets (I thought it would save work) was a bad idea. It just made everything more complicated and harder to adjust. So I've gone back to basics and just doing the after martnets as one set, and then I'll do the fore ones separately. Once the martnets are all done, I'll be free to do the braces.
 
In the meantime I've added the halyards and tyes to the mizzen and bonaventure mizzen masts. I had to fake it - there's no way I could drill a hole through those masts for a sheave, even a fake one, without breaking the masts - they're far too thin. So I looped the cotton around the mast and glued it in place where the sheave would otherwise have been. Yes, it's not correct, but only I will know (and you of course). Here you can see the knights and blocks for the halyards, each in front of its appropriate mast. Unfortunately in fitting the mizzen knight I broke the railing for the stairs down from the upper deck. So now I have to fix that!

And here she is in a longer view. Starting to look pretty good.

 
Steven
 
* Or as Neddy Seagoon said in "Tales of Old Dartmoor" "Little do they know of the little that I know of the little that they know. If I knew a little of the little that they know, I'd know a little. I'll have to keep my little ears open, you know!"

All the pieces for the keel and the curved parts of the framing are now laid out ready for cutting out with my new scroll saw. Wish me luck!

Steven

Vasco da Gama - first round the Cape of Good hope to India in 1497-1499. So yes, these spices came the traditional way - over land and through several middle men.
 
Gribshunden was a royal carrack, as far as they've been able to make out. She was the king's flagship. But nomenclature varies - as far as I'm aware, what we call a carrack was referred to in Scandinavia as a Kravell (from caravel). Here's her dragon (griffin-hound, actually) figurehead being retrieved from the Baltic:
 

 
Steven

Craig, Woodrat and I had a discussion on these and he convinced me that despite a learned article discussing these "through-hull" side rudders, they really aren't a feasible possibility, but more likely to be artist error. That they may be sweeps is an interesting idea, but given their position, I'm pretty sure they're rudders.
 
Dick, I checked with the guy who put the post up, and yes, the vessel is Portuguese. But I did a google image search for "Portuguese fishing boats" and it looks like it's not typical.
 
Steven
 
PS: Craig, where in Melbourne are you? Nice to have another Victorian resident here on the forum.

Vasco da Gama - first round the Cape of Good hope to India in 1497-1499. So yes, these spices came the traditional way - over land and through several middle men.
 
Gribshunden was a royal carrack, as far as they've been able to make out. She was the king's flagship. But nomenclature varies - as far as I'm aware, what we call a carrack was referred to in Scandinavia as a Kravell (from caravel). Here's her dragon (griffin-hound, actually) figurehead being retrieved from the Baltic:
 

 
Steven

Despite my having found this photo on a site relating to Maltese vessels, this is flying what looks like a Portuguese flag. But that bow looks very like the one I propose for my San Marco ship.
 

Steven

I thought you might like to have some contemporary pictures of carracks to refer to in your build. I've divided them into vessels with a single mast (which I like to call "proto-carracks"), and those with at least two. The hulls seem identical: https://www.pinterest.com.au/lowe1847/proto-carracks/ and   https://www.pinterest.com.au/lowe1847/carracks/
 
Steven

I personally feel the artist is still too much in the 18th-19th century mindset - somehow the proportions seem wrong. The same problem applies to the early (and to some degree the current) theoretical reconstructions of the Newport ship. Just somehow look wrong. For a better look, check out Carpaccio's carracks

Or better yet, as your ship is Spanish, these ones from the votive table of the parish of San Pedro de Zumaia in Spain https://zumaia.eus/es/noticias/la-tabla-botiva-de-la-parroquia-de-san-pedro-se-muestra-en-la-exposicion-sobre-elcano probably celebrating the victory of ships led by Juan Martínez de Mendaro, in 1475 in the Strait of Gibraltar, against the Portuguese and Genoese armies."The ship on the left bears the arms of Portugal, and the one on the right those of Castile."

and here's a somewhat better detailed version (for some reason it's been mirror imaged - it's actually the ship on the right in the picture above)

There's also the retable of St Ursula by Joan Riexach of Catalonia (now part of Spain, but then a separate kingdom) of 1468

Regarding the forecastle sheer, I believe many painters exaggerated it - I wouldn't make it any more than on the Mataro model.
'Blush'
 
Steven

There's quite a bit of info in the post of 27 Jan 2014 of his build log, but you should probably PM him direct. 
 
Steven

Despite my having found this photo on a site relating to Maltese vessels, this is flying what looks like a Portuguese flag. But that bow looks very like the one I propose for my San Marco ship.
 

Steven

Thanks.

Yes. You can see some projecting planks on the after part of the hull over which the stern sleeve slides. The sewn ropes are just to hold the stern on and allow disassembly (see Khufu royal barge).
The longitudinal internal stringers are for holding in the caulking .
Dick

That's a very interesting idea, Dick. I take it there's a fair bit of overlap between the stern module and the hull so the load at the joint isn't just on the sewing. Otherwise the stern section would be likely to flap around as the ship flexed in the sea.
 
Am I correct in thinking that those stringers between the planks are both for longitudinal strength and for caulking?
 
Steven

That's covered in Woodrat's build - first page or two as I recall.
 
Steven

I personally feel the artist is still too much in the 18th-19th century mindset - somehow the proportions seem wrong. The same problem applies to the early (and to some degree the current) theoretical reconstructions of the Newport ship. Just somehow look wrong. For a better look, check out Carpaccio's carracks

Or better yet, as your ship is Spanish, these ones from the votive table of the parish of San Pedro de Zumaia in Spain https://zumaia.eus/es/noticias/la-tabla-botiva-de-la-parroquia-de-san-pedro-se-muestra-en-la-exposicion-sobre-elcano probably celebrating the victory of ships led by Juan Martínez de Mendaro, in 1475 in the Strait of Gibraltar, against the Portuguese and Genoese armies."The ship on the left bears the arms of Portugal, and the one on the right those of Castile."

and here's a somewhat better detailed version (for some reason it's been mirror imaged - it's actually the ship on the right in the picture above)

There's also the retable of St Ursula by Joan Riexach of Catalonia (now part of Spain, but then a separate kingdom) of 1468

Regarding the forecastle sheer, I believe many painters exaggerated it - I wouldn't make it any more than on the Mataro model.
'Blush'
 
Steven

I personally feel the artist is still too much in the 18th-19th century mindset - somehow the proportions seem wrong. The same problem applies to the early (and to some degree the current) theoretical reconstructions of the Newport ship. Just somehow look wrong. For a better look, check out Carpaccio's carracks

Or better yet, as your ship is Spanish, these ones from the votive table of the parish of San Pedro de Zumaia in Spain https://zumaia.eus/es/noticias/la-tabla-botiva-de-la-parroquia-de-san-pedro-se-muestra-en-la-exposicion-sobre-elcano probably celebrating the victory of ships led by Juan Martínez de Mendaro, in 1475 in the Strait of Gibraltar, against the Portuguese and Genoese armies."The ship on the left bears the arms of Portugal, and the one on the right those of Castile."

and here's a somewhat better detailed version (for some reason it's been mirror imaged - it's actually the ship on the right in the picture above)

There's also the retable of St Ursula by Joan Riexach of Catalonia (now part of Spain, but then a separate kingdom) of 1468

Regarding the forecastle sheer, I believe many painters exaggerated it - I wouldn't make it any more than on the Mataro model.
'Blush'
 
Steven

Unfortunately, you're right. Dunno what I was thinking.
 
Anyhow, more on the main martnets. I'm getting up to the make-break point of getting these to look right. There are so many variables - three blocks interacting each side of the sail, all of which have to have their tackle exactly right, plus the martnets themselves have to be the right length - all of them - or some will be loose and some will be tight.
 
Ideally, the martnets (and perhaps some of the other ropes in this assembly) should have a nice smooth catenary curve under the influence of gravity, but the cotton thread has too much "bounce" to be able to do that, so instead I have to make them all taut.
 
So, here we go. All the martnets are now in place, and just (just???) need to be adjusted so they look right.
 
Starboard martnets - front of sail

Port martnets - front of sail

Port martnets - rear of sail

I've worked out that, against my inclinations, I'll have to glue the ropes coming down from the sister block (or fiddle block - same thing) to the yard, to hold everything in place so I can get it all looking right. It won't be obvious, and I've come to the conclusion that it's the only way to make it happen. The shiny gold peg in the picture above is holding the rope in place as the glue dries.
 
And I've pulled the sheets of the topsail tight and led them down to the bitts before the mainmast. This photo shows it before gluing in place. The loose ends will be cut off when the glue's dry.
 

 
And listening to Scott Joplin's only surviving opera - Treemonisha - 
 
 
Steven 

Unfortunately, you're right. Dunno what I was thinking.
 
Anyhow, more on the main martnets. I'm getting up to the make-break point of getting these to look right. There are so many variables - three blocks interacting each side of the sail, all of which have to have their tackle exactly right, plus the martnets themselves have to be the right length - all of them - or some will be loose and some will be tight.
 
Ideally, the martnets (and perhaps some of the other ropes in this assembly) should have a nice smooth catenary curve under the influence of gravity, but the cotton thread has too much "bounce" to be able to do that, so instead I have to make them all taut.
 
So, here we go. All the martnets are now in place, and just (just???) need to be adjusted so they look right.
 
Starboard martnets - front of sail

Port martnets - front of sail

Port martnets - rear of sail

I've worked out that, against my inclinations, I'll have to glue the ropes coming down from the sister block (or fiddle block - same thing) to the yard, to hold everything in place so I can get it all looking right. It won't be obvious, and I've come to the conclusion that it's the only way to make it happen. The shiny gold peg in the picture above is holding the rope in place as the glue dries.
 
And I've pulled the sheets of the topsail tight and led them down to the bitts before the mainmast. This photo shows it before gluing in place. The loose ends will be cut off when the glue's dry.
 

 
And listening to Scott Joplin's only surviving opera - Treemonisha - 
 
 
Steven 

Unfortunately, you're right. Dunno what I was thinking.
 
Anyhow, more on the main martnets. I'm getting up to the make-break point of getting these to look right. There are so many variables - three blocks interacting each side of the sail, all of which have to have their tackle exactly right, plus the martnets themselves have to be the right length - all of them - or some will be loose and some will be tight.
 
Ideally, the martnets (and perhaps some of the other ropes in this assembly) should have a nice smooth catenary curve under the influence of gravity, but the cotton thread has too much "bounce" to be able to do that, so instead I have to make them all taut.
 
So, here we go. All the martnets are now in place, and just (just???) need to be adjusted so they look right.
 
Starboard martnets - front of sail

Port martnets - front of sail

Port martnets - rear of sail

I've worked out that, against my inclinations, I'll have to glue the ropes coming down from the sister block (or fiddle block - same thing) to the yard, to hold everything in place so I can get it all looking right. It won't be obvious, and I've come to the conclusion that it's the only way to make it happen. The shiny gold peg in the picture above is holding the rope in place as the glue dries.
 
And I've pulled the sheets of the topsail tight and led them down to the bitts before the mainmast. This photo shows it before gluing in place. The loose ends will be cut off when the glue's dry.
 

 
And listening to Scott Joplin's only surviving opera - Treemonisha - 
 
 
Steven 

Unfortunately, you're right. Dunno what I was thinking.
 
Anyhow, more on the main martnets. I'm getting up to the make-break point of getting these to look right. There are so many variables - three blocks interacting each side of the sail, all of which have to have their tackle exactly right, plus the martnets themselves have to be the right length - all of them - or some will be loose and some will be tight.
 
Ideally, the martnets (and perhaps some of the other ropes in this assembly) should have a nice smooth catenary curve under the influence of gravity, but the cotton thread has too much "bounce" to be able to do that, so instead I have to make them all taut.
 
So, here we go. All the martnets are now in place, and just (just???) need to be adjusted so they look right.
 
Starboard martnets - front of sail

Port martnets - front of sail

Port martnets - rear of sail

I've worked out that, against my inclinations, I'll have to glue the ropes coming down from the sister block (or fiddle block - same thing) to the yard, to hold everything in place so I can get it all looking right. It won't be obvious, and I've come to the conclusion that it's the only way to make it happen. The shiny gold peg in the picture above is holding the rope in place as the glue dries.
 
And I've pulled the sheets of the topsail tight and led them down to the bitts before the mainmast. This photo shows it before gluing in place. The loose ends will be cut off when the glue's dry.
 

 
And listening to Scott Joplin's only surviving opera - Treemonisha - 
 
 
Steven 

I have a theory about the sheer on the Mataro Carrack: I believe the shipwright used the Mezza Lune incorrectly. The Master Shipwright is supposed to have the bottom of the sheer at the master frame, and work outwards to the tail frames using the Mezza Lune. I believe the shipwright in charge of the Mataro erroneously put the bottom of the sheer at a tail frame, due to the fact that it's about 2/3 down the line of the ship's hull. I think i might just calculate the sheer by using the Mezza Lune in relation to the bow and stern posts. This would mean a perfectly geometric sheer, without the need for unnecessary ribbands. 

I did explain that the proportions in the first modern artwork seemed wrong, as the ship would have been shorter and a sheer would be present. The artist makes the error of assuming carracks have the same general proportions of small ships in the 18th century. Note the small forecastle and ridiculously elongated midships/sterncastle half-deck. 

I know for a fact that the "classic" age of sail mindset invades and permeates modern research and discussions on medieval ships. I do believe Carpaccio is one of, if not the best source for mediterranean carracks c. 1450-1475-ish. 

I personally feel the artist is still too much in the 18th-19th century mindset - somehow the proportions seem wrong. The same problem applies to the early (and to some degree the current) theoretical reconstructions of the Newport ship. Just somehow look wrong. For a better look, check out Carpaccio's carracks

Or better yet, as your ship is Spanish, these ones from the votive table of the parish of San Pedro de Zumaia in Spain https://zumaia.eus/es/noticias/la-tabla-botiva-de-la-parroquia-de-san-pedro-se-muestra-en-la-exposicion-sobre-elcano probably celebrating the victory of ships led by Juan Martínez de Mendaro, in 1475 in the Strait of Gibraltar, against the Portuguese and Genoese armies."The ship on the left bears the arms of Portugal, and the one on the right those of Castile."

and here's a somewhat better detailed version (for some reason it's been mirror imaged - it's actually the ship on the right in the picture above)

There's also the retable of St Ursula by Joan Riexach of Catalonia (now part of Spain, but then a separate kingdom) of 1468

Regarding the forecastle sheer, I believe many painters exaggerated it - I wouldn't make it any more than on the Mataro model.
'Blush'
 
Steven

I personally feel the artist is still too much in the 18th-19th century mindset - somehow the proportions seem wrong. The same problem applies to the early (and to some degree the current) theoretical reconstructions of the Newport ship. Just somehow look wrong. For a better look, check out Carpaccio's carracks

Or better yet, as your ship is Spanish, these ones from the votive table of the parish of San Pedro de Zumaia in Spain https://zumaia.eus/es/noticias/la-tabla-botiva-de-la-parroquia-de-san-pedro-se-muestra-en-la-exposicion-sobre-elcano probably celebrating the victory of ships led by Juan Martínez de Mendaro, in 1475 in the Strait of Gibraltar, against the Portuguese and Genoese armies."The ship on the left bears the arms of Portugal, and the one on the right those of Castile."

and here's a somewhat better detailed version (for some reason it's been mirror imaged - it's actually the ship on the right in the picture above)

There's also the retable of St Ursula by Joan Riexach of Catalonia (now part of Spain, but then a separate kingdom) of 1468

Regarding the forecastle sheer, I believe many painters exaggerated it - I wouldn't make it any more than on the Mataro model.
'Blush'
 
Steven