nobotch

I'm one those guys who rarely buy anything for myself. My wife buys me two pairs of Levis and my sister-in-law buys me underwear for Christmas and I buy hotrod t-shirts whenever I see one that I like. Don't get me wrong, my wife buys a few clothes to dress me up in when we go out, but they're not necessary in my book. When I first saw the Byrnes saw I decided that I didn't really need it and I was right. One day I was looking for a hanger and went to my wife's closet when I didn't  find one in mine. By the way hers is a lot, and I mean a lot bigger than mine. Since the kids have all gone, she actually has her clothes in three of the four former bedrooms. The forth is only half filled with mine. Then it struck me - She didn't "need" that may dresses. The next day I ordered both the thickness sander and the table saw. I still don't "need" either but boy is it more fun with them. And now that other half of the closet is filled with equipment because I decided that I also didn't "need" a Sherline lathe and mill.

Okay Boyd, since you asked, you need one! And no, you can't live without one. There now, feel better?
 
Yes there are others that would possibly do the job, but the difference is, the Byrnes saw is an absolute joy to use. It will bring a smile to your face every time you use it. And after all, don't we do this hobby for enjoyment? It will certainly come into its own when you start scratch building, but even kit bashing will give it a serious workout. If you're looking for it to "pay for itself", it will do that if you mill your own lumber to size - eg buy sheet stock from Hobbymill and rip it down to size. BUT, you don't buy one of these works of engineering art to pay for itself. You buy one because you can! And for the sheer enjoyment of using it.
 
So, have you placed your order yet?
 
Oh, and don't forget to order the Byrnes Disc Sander at the same time. That brings almost as big a smile to my face, and probably gets used even more frequently than the saw.
 
Let us all know when you've pulled the trigger on this/these. :)

Shihawk,
 
Maybe it's best for you to take the "wait and see" approach?  You're on the fence, you don't know if you need or will even use a small table saw.  When the time is right, you will know it.

I am a scratch builder and bought a table saw that I thought I needed.  Now it sits in the garage of a friend because I never found a need for it after the first five cuts.  I’m still building models and I don’t miss the saw.  I could have used the money to buy other supplies and tools.
 
Bob

My usual indecision has prompted me to ask this question . I want a Brynes table saw ,but do i really need it and will i use it enough to justify buying it .I have read all about it and the reviews all agree it is a superb saw and a credit to jim,s enginnering skill ,but at present and for the forseeable future i,m quite happy buying my wood pre cut and am worried that if i buy one it will simply sit on the bench as an seldom used work of art . i have a cheap fret saw which i use to cut many one off pieces and with a little patience it is suprising what can be done with a good scalpel, and file . Is a table saw not mainly for repeditive cuts rather than one offs and shaping planks etc ? Scatch building is probably my ultimate goal but again unless for making my own planks will i use for much else or is it the case that if i had one i would use it for everything and wonder how i lived without it ?.By the time i buy all the bits and pieces it would work into the price of good ship kit or enough pre-cut timber for a couple of scratch builds ,but please tell me i need it ,cause i really want one !!!!
 
Boyd

I can feel with you Boyd.
Three weeks ago I asked myself the same question and my answer was "yes I can live without a Byrnes saw, but I don't want to".
The parcel tracking system says that it should arrive today - the door bell could ring at any moment now.
 
Of course there are other saws that can serve the same purpose, but in the end it comes down to what makes you feel good. My take on this issue is not so much if I probably would not use that saw so often that it would "pay off" but rather if my budget still will allow me to buy things that actually are more important but not so "sexy" like this nifty tool.
 
Cheers,
Markus
 
P.S.
Now, 57 minutes later: door bell rang, it's here!

I can feel with you Boyd.
Three weeks ago I asked myself the same question and my answer was "yes I can live without a Byrnes saw, but I don't want to".
The parcel tracking system says that it should arrive today - the door bell could ring at any moment now.
 
Of course there are other saws that can serve the same purpose, but in the end it comes down to what makes you feel good. My take on this issue is not so much if I probably would not use that saw so often that it would "pay off" but rather if my budget still will allow me to buy things that actually are more important but not so "sexy" like this nifty tool.
 
Cheers,
Markus
 
P.S.
Now, 57 minutes later: door bell rang, it's here!

I can feel with you Boyd.
Three weeks ago I asked myself the same question and my answer was "yes I can live without a Byrnes saw, but I don't want to".
The parcel tracking system says that it should arrive today - the door bell could ring at any moment now.
 
Of course there are other saws that can serve the same purpose, but in the end it comes down to what makes you feel good. My take on this issue is not so much if I probably would not use that saw so often that it would "pay off" but rather if my budget still will allow me to buy things that actually are more important but not so "sexy" like this nifty tool.
 
Cheers,
Markus
 
P.S.
Now, 57 minutes later: door bell rang, it's here!

Here is my final set-up of supporting the blade laterally. I made an oak block as shown in the drawing, drilled and tapped two #4-40 holes in the hold-down foot of the machine and used a couple screws to hold the guide in place.

 
I made four more to keep in reserve. The 1/8 inch wide slot is so I can make final adjustments fore and aft.

 
Again this worked like a charm and I believe it could be a nice add-on feature to any scroll saw.
 
 

Wouter, I hope you don't mind me adding one more suggestion for Robert.
 
Since I got this scroll-saw at a bargain price, I still had to do some experimenting. With the 'zero clearance' table mod I am able to get pretty close to no tear out on the back side. But I was curious if I could improve how steady the blade is while in motion. Bandsaws have guides for the blades and I thought this might work on a scroll-saw. The first picture below shows my experiment of using a piece of oak. I cut a groove part way and double back taped that behind the blade. It worked quite well and I was able to follow a line better than I had done before. I may make a better setup rather than using double back tape. But at least the idea worked.
 

Put it on and turn the wheels by hand. If it runs true just use it until it breaks the next time. Not dangerous at all!
 
I braze my bandsaw blades when they break. It is a bit tricky the get the joint well aligned, but if it is the blade does its job like before. If it is not the saw will run that noisy that you will stop using it just because of the noise and also because the cuts will be really awful.
But again, a blade that breaks or jumps off the wheels presents no danger at all to the saw operator  if all guards are in place and the fingers are in a reasonable distance to the running blade.

Meanwhile I have found a very useful hint about the power of kick back on small table saw  - by first conicidence a Byrnes saw, and be second coincidence posted on this forum, here:
 

So far so good. But there is more to kick back than just a piece of wood making its uncontrolled way through the shed. Kickback can even lead to make one's hand make contact with the blade.
 
I don't know if the following link to a "safety-video" already has been posted somewhere on modelshipworld.com, but as it may be an eye-opener to some I believe it would not hurt being posted more than once.
 
The guy who made the video missed a trip to the hospital only by a few millimeters, and admits unreservedly he was an idiot doing such an experiment:
 

 

 
All this makes me think that a riving knife is not only mandatory for full size table saws but also on small ones. Even if an custom addition carried out by a precision metal working shop will cost a grand it will still be cheaper than a chewed up or cut off digit. Hospital bills are expensive.

Sorry, Dee Dee, but in spite of your background I don't believe you have more than minimal hands-on experience with a band saw. If you had ever used one enough to experience a blade break you would know that when a band saw blade breaks all that happens is that it stops moving, nothing else, at all, ever. I have used both vertical and horizontal band saws extensively my entire working life, have experienced uncounted hundreds of band saw breakages and have never seen nor heard of a broken band saw blade doing anything except just stop moving instantly. The entire blade except for the portion between the two sets of guide rollers where the cut is made is inside a closed box and blade guards. Using even a poorly rewelded band saw blade (as long as it's reasonably straight and properly ground) poses no more danger than using a new one.
 
Removing the broken band saw blade from the machine is more dangerous than breaking the blade. But the most dangerous part of breaking a band saw blade is unpackaging the new replacement. They are turned back into themselves to make a smaller, triple coiled, package. Have you ever seen those little round sun screens (fabric stretched over a spring wire frame) for use in a parked car that pop open into a large circle or rounded rectangle and are almost impossible to turn back on themselves into the smaller unit until you learn the trick? Same thing. The only way I've found to open those band saw packages without shredding myself is to hold the blade firmly in one leather-gloved hand while cutting off the cardboard bands securing it then toss the blade across the room and take cover. Band saw blades do not fail in anything like the near explosive, shrapnel throwing way circular saw blades can.
 
I'm in no way saying to ignore safety concerns, but I don't believe in exaggerating dangers out of ignorance. I believe that the truth serves best. I'm assuming that everyone wears safety glasses and/or a face shield using power tools. My own prescription glasses, which I need to wear all the time, have had safety lenses since I was in my 20s. Take no chances with your vision. After working for more than 40 years in a potentially very dangerous industry I have gotten into the habit of always asking myself "What if........?" before proceeding with a planned operation and changing it when needed to minimize potential dangers. I haven't stabbed or cut myself with an edged tool in many years. I learned my lessons from the safety mistakes I made on the job - and the resulting injuries and near misses - and apply those lessons to my hobbies. The best safety device is the one we have built in between our ears, but it needs education, training and consistent practice to work at its best.

Just make sure you use a push stick so that fingers and blade have proper separation.
 
I would be glad to help in anyway I can. It is hard for me to relate to your uncertainty. I have been playing with table saws since I was in my teens.
 
I will suggest one thing. Stand slightly to the side when cutting. This way if you have something kick back it can fly across the room and not into you. When I first got my Jim saw. I was so excited I could not wait for the first cut. So I took it out to my workshop set it up. Yes I waxed the table top. And then I set about cutting a plank or 2. Out of reflex without thinking I stood to the side as I made my first cut. It was a good thing I did. Because my first plank got caught by the blade and flew across the room. It made contact with the widow and broke the inside pane of glass! Nice arrow! I am very glad that was not my chest.

I don't have a table saw but found this interesting:
 
"Whilst the risk of kickback is real, good sense and technique, as with any tool, is the key to safe usage. Just don’t read any American magazines or books on how to use them"
 
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/table-saw-safety-why-the-british-think-were-crazy
 
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

Put it on and turn the wheels by hand. If it runs true just use it until it breaks the next time. Not dangerous at all!
 
I braze my bandsaw blades when they break. It is a bit tricky the get the joint well aligned, but if it is the blade does its job like before. If it is not the saw will run that noisy that you will stop using it just because of the noise and also because the cuts will be really awful.
But again, a blade that breaks or jumps off the wheels presents no danger at all to the saw operator  if all guards are in place and the fingers are in a reasonable distance to the running blade.

So, I've finished Sander. The results are satisfying. Guess, car needs to ger a bir deeper. Will improve in future. 
 
      Results. Not bad, hm ?      Any ideas and comments are always welcome.   Cheers, Bugra.

I often use the featherboards from Micro mark on my Proxxon FET when ripping along the fence. Those small pieces of wood travel fast and far sometimes, and the first time one hit me in the stomach was the last time I stood behind the saw.
 
It also stops me pushing my luck holding the wood down with my fingers close to the blade.
 
the featherboard attached to the fence works well, the one that sits on the table holding the piece horizontally works ok but I hardly ever use it.
 
Cheers
Rob

Hi all.. this is my all homemade tools in one post.. maybe someone will need some idea

Here are some pictures of the thickness sander I built last year for my Triton cross section build. It is powered by a drill and takes a half sheet of standard size sandpaper. The metal shaft is fitted through two bearings recessed into the sides, then several wooden discs fixed to the shaft. There is a couple if holes drilled in the shaft and a small nail through each fixed to a couple of the wooden discs so they wouldnt spin. I then glued a sheet of sandpaper to a flat board and set this on the bed, turned on the drill and raised the bed to sand the surface flat to the table. The hole on top was put in later an is is to fit the vacuum hose and makes this unit virtually dust free. The drill is fixed in place but can be removed by a single screw at the handle end. I have a couple of drills so havent had to remove this yet. Being variable speed I can adjust for the fine sanding or for the first thicknessing.
 
Can open up to about 60mm deep and is 120mm wide. I have sanded down to 1mm succesfully and the thickness is set by the bolt at the rear of the table. Sandpaper is fixed a wooden shaft with a slot to fit the flat bar to hold the sheet in place. The only parts I paid for were the split pins that hold the shaft in place, the rest I had lying around the shed. It has now had a tidy up and a bit of paint on the top. 
 

 

 

 

 

That's what I use even on my drill press, and also on my router table.
 
When sometings starts to turn out differently than I imagined it is a huge relief to not have to take off one hando of the worlikng piece in order to turn off the machine!

This is what I always use.
 
A feather board and a push stick.
 

 
An on/off foot pedal.
 

 
Regards
 
 mij

Just following up on my post of 08 Jun and my solution to the problem of blade binding while ripping strips. I said that I had added an extra piece of fence to the front half of the high fence, extending from the front of the table to approximately the centre of the saw blade, with the theory being that this would allow extra clearance at the back of the blade to prevent the binding issue without having to try and offset the rear of the fence.  Well, I've since tested this and it works like a charm.  Here's a few pics of my setup - very simple, and quite crude, but effective. I've set the blade (a 0.04" kerf) at max height for the photos, but of course that is adjusted to a suitable height for the thickness of the material being cut.   
 

 

 

 

 
Being attached with only two screws, it is quite simple to remove when it's not needed, and very quick to install when it is.
 
I've also invested in a set of Ripping Gauges from Micromark.  These are inexpensive, work very well and make setting up for a "standard" size cut very simple and, more importantly, repeatable.
 

 
Hope this is of some help to those who may have experienced similar problems with ripping stock.

Having had the same issues and having tried all of the advice above, including an email discussion with Jeff Hayes, I decided to try adding an extra piece of fence to the front half of the high fence. I used some aluminium flat bar, drilled and tapped some holes in the existing high fence and screwed it on. The additional fence extends from the front of the table to approx the centre of the saw blade. The theory is that this will allow extra clearance on the back half of the blade, without the need to offset the rear of the fence, which should make setup a lot simpler. I discussed this with Jeff before leaping in, and he agreed with my theory. I've yet to have a chance to test the completed modified fence, but will post here when I do if that will help folks.

Hi Richard,
 
Causes:  The issue is that the wood is moving on you and touching the back portion of the blade.  This is caused by releasing the internal stresses in the sheet and you may even see the material moving towards the blade (gap created by the blade kerf is narrowing towards the back side of the cut).  Not so much with basswood, but there also can be changes in the direction of the grain that will cause the same issue.  Some blades that are too thin or dull will follow the grain and you can see that the piece that you are cutting is actually getting wider as you cut and consequently binding.  Seems as though the thicker the stock and the wider the piece that you are cutting, the more that you will see this issue.  Refer to the last page on my website regarding use of a Byrnes saw.
 
Solutions:
 
1)  Use your .040 kerf blade instead of your .030 kerf blade.  (thicker kerf tends to reduce binding and blade deflection)
 
2)  Add back taper on fence.  Start with adding .005, then add another .005, if necessary.  This will have a big impact on this problem
 
3)  Turn piece end over end.  This changes the direction of the grain of the wood and helps if the blade is following the grain instead of release of stress in the wood.  Usually not an issue with basswood, unless your blade is dull.
 
4)  Try cutting from the other side of the piece or go to a different sheet all together.
 
5)  Change saw blade to new sharp saw blade.  Probably not needed in this case unless you have been using it for really hard exotics like ebony or bloodwood.  Once I use a blade on those woods, I do not use it again on my regular stock such as cherry, box, pear, or holly.
 
Richard, I hope the above is helpful.  In the end #2 will help the most because with these slitting blades the teeth and the body of the blade are essentially the same kerf.  Using a carbide blade will also eliminate the problem because the teeth are a wider kerf than the body of the blade and that provides additional clearance..
 
This is a common issue, so you are not alone.  It all has to do with using the slitting blades instead of a carbide tipped blade.
 
Cheers,
 
Jeff
HobbyMill