Roger Pellett

Hi all,
 
I've been gone getting my ticker re-plumbed. Had a bad ekg, then a heart catheterization for a stent, found out a stent wouldn't work. I had a triple bypass at the Gainesville/Shands V.A. Hospital within 4 days. Had a bleed, they stopped that. I went home for  3 weeks and passed out. Ambulance to Tallahassee this time as they could only get me back to the V.A. hospital by chopper for $40.000. I spent 5 more days with them trying to figure out where my blood went. Anyways, the V.A. was terrific [Tallahassee too] and I'm all patched up and am shortly to finish Lightning. Below are some pictures of me adding rigging that I forgot to put on earlier. It is a terrible job getting in behind what was there. Also Lightning has that recessed deck with the flying bridges making it very hard to get to the belaying pins.

Hi johnhoward
 
So this all brings me to the conclusion: i will build the doctor close to the boilers as you did show in the Paddlewheel attachment. The auxiliary engine is not to locate, but will be built in too, I will search for the location of this engine, maybe I will make it as you did show earlier, with a connection to the capstan. This WAS steam driven, when I read, what the Vicksburg museum page tells:  https://www.nps.gov/vick/learn/historyculture/capstan.htm
So a lot of open questins are answered in the last few days, Thank YOU Sir!
Even the 12 pounder is now good to locate and to build as a model, so a lot of "extra" work will be made
 
Best Regards
Gerhard

Gerhard & Others,
There are several questions in the previous few responses which are very helpful in arriving at the most plausible configuration for the USS Cairo and the other "City Class Ironclads'.
We have been researching this for about 3 years while meanwhile constructing our 1:24 scale model for the Missouri Civil War Museum and I agree we still don't have all the answers.  All of the existing drawings are based on a mixture of actual recovered fragments of the original ironclad, the original written specifications, and reconstructions of the most probable technically plausible configuration. The building of our large scale model has given us better insight for verifying or determining the most likely reconstruction.
Question 1: Are you sure the capstan was steam driven?
Answer: The best proof comes from the NPS Historical Structural Report (HSR) for the USS Cairo under the section on "Auxiliary Equipment" which lists; Steam driven capstan, Steam driven pumps, Hand pumps, and Feedwater steam engine ("Doctor"). The recovered capstan does include release pins to permit manual powering and gearing for two speeds(or mechanical advantage). However, I think steam power would prove most useful for dislodging a 500+ ton ironclad from a sandbar or snag in the shallow US Western Rivers. 
Question 2: ... can we find out the location for this second auxiliary engine?
Answer: Since this engine apparently was not recovered,  I doubt that we will ever find any absolute proof, however as I outlined in a previous response,  our model was used to reconstruct the simplest method of moving the scaled down (Ashley) engine out of the coal bin via a PTO shaft and this is offered for consideration.
Question 3: ... so, the Doctor should be built in but turned 90-degrees,...?
Answer: Yes, however  Gene Bodar actually also located the "Doctor" a little too far aft on top of the paddlewheel feedwater chute which he made flat rather than curving up in front of the wheel. (You may also notice he installed his nicely made boilers backwards) [See: Paddlewheel Inlet attachment]
 
johnhoward

Are you sure that the capstan was steam driven?  With large navy crews could the capstan have been manned by hand.  We're steam driven Capstans used on the rivers in the 1860's?
 
The Smaller caliber Dhalgren boat howitzers were designed to arm boats (especially launches) in support of amphibious operations, a requirement stemming from the earlier Mexican War where the navy was required to land troops and lacked an effective light weight artillery piece.  The idea was to mount the gun in the bow to be able to fire it while approaching the shore and to then quickly dismount it and to remount it on the field carriage that had been carried separately in the boat's stern sheets.  The field carriage was to be wheeled ashore over a ramp formed by extending timbers from the boat's bow.  The "sledge" that you refer to is the mounting for use in arming the boat. Most photos show these boat howitzers on iron field carriages when aboard ship.  My Dixie Gun Works materials which are copies of the original drawings apply to the light 12 pound howitzer and depict a "hybred" field carriage- iron and bronze except the two main wheels which are wooden.  The small tail wheel is iron.
 
The best reference that I can recommend that covers Civil War naval artillery is "Arming the Fleet" by Spencer Tucker.  You can also download a copy of a Civil War US Navy Ordinance Manual    on line from google books.
 
Roger

Are you sure that the capstan was steam driven?  With large navy crews could the capstan have been manned by hand.  We're steam driven Capstans used on the rivers in the 1860's?
 
The Smaller caliber Dhalgren boat howitzers were designed to arm boats (especially launches) in support of amphibious operations, a requirement stemming from the earlier Mexican War where the navy was required to land troops and lacked an effective light weight artillery piece.  The idea was to mount the gun in the bow to be able to fire it while approaching the shore and to then quickly dismount it and to remount it on the field carriage that had been carried separately in the boat's stern sheets.  The field carriage was to be wheeled ashore over a ramp formed by extending timbers from the boat's bow.  The "sledge" that you refer to is the mounting for use in arming the boat. Most photos show these boat howitzers on iron field carriages when aboard ship.  My Dixie Gun Works materials which are copies of the original drawings apply to the light 12 pound howitzer and depict a "hybred" field carriage- iron and bronze except the two main wheels which are wooden.  The small tail wheel is iron.
 
The best reference that I can recommend that covers Civil War naval artillery is "Arming the Fleet" by Spencer Tucker.  You can also download a copy of a Civil War US Navy Ordinance Manual    on line from google books.
 
Roger

Are you sure that the capstan was steam driven?  With large navy crews could the capstan have been manned by hand.  We're steam driven Capstans used on the rivers in the 1860's?
 
The Smaller caliber Dhalgren boat howitzers were designed to arm boats (especially launches) in support of amphibious operations, a requirement stemming from the earlier Mexican War where the navy was required to land troops and lacked an effective light weight artillery piece.  The idea was to mount the gun in the bow to be able to fire it while approaching the shore and to then quickly dismount it and to remount it on the field carriage that had been carried separately in the boat's stern sheets.  The field carriage was to be wheeled ashore over a ramp formed by extending timbers from the boat's bow.  The "sledge" that you refer to is the mounting for use in arming the boat. Most photos show these boat howitzers on iron field carriages when aboard ship.  My Dixie Gun Works materials which are copies of the original drawings apply to the light 12 pound howitzer and depict a "hybred" field carriage- iron and bronze except the two main wheels which are wooden.  The small tail wheel is iron.
 
The best reference that I can recommend that covers Civil War naval artillery is "Arming the Fleet" by Spencer Tucker.  You can also download a copy of a Civil War US Navy Ordinance Manual    on line from google books.
 
Roger

Dixie Gun Works, in Union City, Tennessee sells monographs of US Civil War artillery.  They have one on the Dhalgren light 12 pounder boat howitzer and its field carriage.  You could literally build one from this monograph.  Look them up on the web.
 
Roger

I know that many on here do not like modern warships much less submarines, and that is okay. However if I may, please pause a moment and look at my USS THRESHER. Look at it not because I built it, or it is some fantastic model but of what and who is reminds us of.
 
Following a yard period USS THRESHER conducted sea trials of the New England coast. One of the test was a deep dive. During the deep dive a silver braised seawater fitting burst in the engine room. At this depth a leak the size of a pencil lead had enough pressure to slice a man into. The stream of water caused damage to nearby electrical panels that control parts of the reactor, it also caused blinding mist.
 
The Captain ordered the Emergency blow system activated. 3000 psi air raced to the tanks. However a diffuser cage at the end of the pipe caused a block of ice to form in the pipe stopping the blow. It was then the reactor scrammed eliminating propulsion. Again an emergency blow was attempted and again ice blocked the air flow. The flooding in the engine room became worse and with nor power to the drain pump the water could not be pumped out.
 
THRESHER sank stern first until the sea crushed her. I as a retired submariner can imagine what was going on during those last moments.
 
They were not Sailors who manned cannons, or climbed the rigging, or fought the storms off Cape Horn, however they were heroes who stood at their stations till the end. Like Sailors from the days of canoes to sail to steam to nuclear power they have no tombstone.
 
So shipmates stop just a second and remember them.
 
Chief         

Dixie Gun Works, in Union City, Tennessee sells monographs of US Civil War artillery.  They have one on the Dhalgren light 12 pounder boat howitzer and its field carriage.  You could literally build one from this monograph.  Look them up on the web.
 
Roger

Dixie Gun Works, in Union City, Tennessee sells monographs of US Civil War artillery.  They have one on the Dhalgren light 12 pounder boat howitzer and its field carriage.  You could literally build one from this monograph.  Look them up on the web.
 
Roger

Two other great books on the subject are American Battleships 1886-1923 by John Reilly and Robert Scheina and US Armored Cruisers by Ivan Musicant.
 
Roger

Two other great books on the subject are American Battleships 1886-1923 by John Reilly and Robert Scheina and US Armored Cruisers by Ivan Musicant.
 
Roger

Two other great books on the subject are American Battleships 1886-1923 by John Reilly and Robert Scheina and US Armored Cruisers by Ivan Musicant.
 
Roger

I have one book that I really enjoyed "The American Steel Navy" by John Alden.  Try Amazon - it's pricey, but read the reviews! https://www.amazon.com/American-Steel-Navy-Photographic-Introduction/dp/0870212486  I would also recommend using the search term "great white fleet" on the different book websites. Steve
 
 

Back in the good old days, plywood was made with "resorcinol glues."  These were synthetic plastic resin glues.  The glues came in two parts, a resin and a powder that were mixed together.  My father and I used a lot of the stuff in 1960 in the construction  of a sailboat.  It was easy to use, worked every time ind did not involve water.  
 
According to the internet resorcinol glues are still available.  DAP apparently makes one but it is sold as a powder to be mixed with water.  Titebond III is apparently another and is sold premixed (with water?). The two part resorcinol glues like I used appear to be available but I didn't see any small quantities. In the boatbuilding world resorcinol glues have supposedly been superseded by epoxies.  I have personally had excellent experience using WEST SYSTEM epoxies and these would work well for your purpose.  In recent years these have been produced in small disposable units so you might research this option.
 
Roger

We, the St. Louis Gateway Model Shipcrafters are currently scratch building a 1:24 scale plank-on-frame model of the USS Cairo's City Class, sister ship USS St. Louis for the Missouri Civil War Museum (MCWM). We started this project in September 2014 using the Vicksburg 1981, 28 sheet set of plans by Ashley and their Historic Structural Report(HSR) which seemed to be the standard source for the  modeling community at that time and appeared to cover everything we needed to build an authentic model worthy of display at the MCWM. The attached photo represents our progress as of March 2017. The starboard side of this 7.5-foot long model will represent the ironclad's finished exterior while the port side will have substantial openings to reveal substructure and internal equipment.
Unfortunately, we immediately began to detect obvious errors in these plans such as a lack of deck camber and deck house roof camber which would be particularly noticeable at our large scale. Correspondence with NPS Vicksburg led us to NPS Denver, who actually managed the USS Cairo reconstruction project, confirmed these errors and our fears that others probably existed partly because of the poor condition of the USS Cairo's remains in 1981. We therefore began our own concurrent intensive research activity to verify everything we could before we fabricated it. This included referring to an earlier 1968 NPS Philadelphia survey drawing of the USS Cairo hull and a later 2005 Vicksburg subcontractor reconstruction of the gun carriages which were very useful. We also found drafting errors and inconsistencies in Ashley's 1981 drawings, some of which have been superseded by Vicksburg 2015 PDF drawings. Some other sets of plans, such as those by Meagher and Geoghegan(1970), appear to contain reconstructions which make sense.  Unfortunately other plans such as Bob Hill's simply relied solely on the accuracy of Ashley's drawings or introduced figments of their own imagination such as C. A. Raven's NRG Journal Article(Summer 2012) which is counterproductive. All existing plans appear to be flawed and the many USS Cairo models currently on public display reflect these errors.
Obviously some of the issues we are discovering would not necessarily apply to smaller scale or less detailed models. We are compiling a list of our findings and intend to submit it to the NRG Journal for use as a cautionary "heads up" to future City Class model makers.

Back in the good old days, plywood was made with "resorcinol glues."  These were synthetic plastic resin glues.  The glues came in two parts, a resin and a powder that were mixed together.  My father and I used a lot of the stuff in 1960 in the construction  of a sailboat.  It was easy to use, worked every time ind did not involve water.  
 
According to the internet resorcinol glues are still available.  DAP apparently makes one but it is sold as a powder to be mixed with water.  Titebond III is apparently another and is sold premixed (with water?). The two part resorcinol glues like I used appear to be available but I didn't see any small quantities. In the boatbuilding world resorcinol glues have supposedly been superseded by epoxies.  I have personally had excellent experience using WEST SYSTEM epoxies and these would work well for your purpose.  In recent years these have been produced in small disposable units so you might research this option.
 
Roger

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 204 – Tops and Futtock Shroud Wrap-up
 
I am happy to be finished with the dust case and to resume the model work.  The completion of the three mast assemblies with their pre-erection detailing, including their futtock shrouds, required just a bit more work and is now complete.  The first two pictures show the mizzen top with its futtock shrouds installed.
 

 
As mentioned earlier, these shrouds are served, fitted with brass thimbles at both ends, hooked to the deadeye straps at the top and secured to eyes on the mast band with lashings.  The futtocks are 4 1/2" rope (5 ¼" on the main and fore), spun from three strands of linen thread, right-handed.  The rope was dyed black with diluted India ink.  Making these was described earlier in Part 196.
 

 
The last task on the lower mizzen mast was fitting of the mast coat at the base.  This is shown in the next picture.
 

 
The next picture shows the model with the three completed lower masts fitted – still temporarily.
 

 
The next step will be to make the lower shrouds.  The next picture shows numbers 1 and 2 on the fore mast, port side, looped temporarily over the mast head.
 

 
These two will actually go over the corresponding starboard pair.  In each case the #1 shroud is served over its full length.  The serving on #2 extends down to the futtocks as it will do on all the other shrouds.  Parcelling has been wrapped over the serving around the mast head down to the top of the seizing, but has not yet been "tarred."  More on all this in the next post.
 
 
Ed

Les,
 
This is a nicely made piece of equipment.  Mine works fine. The locking mechanism is intended to fit the 1/2 in wide miter slot of US made table saws and bandsaws.
 
Roger

I did a little more internet research on glues.  Apparently the family of glues known as Urea Formaldehydes are preferred for laminated structures such as plywood.  These were used way back in WWII to build the famous RAF Mosquito bombers. These were built with balsa cores and birch veneer laminated inside and outside to produce a very stiff structure.  The same principal as a foam or balsa cored fiberglass boat.  These glues which are readily available and cheap will stand up to the high clamping forces required.
 
Roger

Back in the good old days, plywood was made with "resorcinol glues."  These were synthetic plastic resin glues.  The glues came in two parts, a resin and a powder that were mixed together.  My father and I used a lot of the stuff in 1960 in the construction  of a sailboat.  It was easy to use, worked every time ind did not involve water.  
 
According to the internet resorcinol glues are still available.  DAP apparently makes one but it is sold as a powder to be mixed with water.  Titebond III is apparently another and is sold premixed (with water?). The two part resorcinol glues like I used appear to be available but I didn't see any small quantities. In the boatbuilding world resorcinol glues have supposedly been superseded by epoxies.  I have personally had excellent experience using WEST SYSTEM epoxies and these would work well for your purpose.  In recent years these have been produced in small disposable units so you might research this option.
 
Roger

Six or seven years ago, my wife and I were visiting Stockholm, and I saw this ship along the pier with steam up.  I walked up the gangway and told them that I volunteered for an organization in the US working to preserve an historic steamship (the SS Meteor) and that I would like to see their engine room.  They said OK.
 
The power plant is a thing from the past- coal burning boiler hand fired, reciprocating engine with auxiliaries driven from the crosshead.  I don't remember which it was, a compound or a triple.
 
Unfortunately, she was booked for a private party so we could not take a cruise.  She is very elegant with lots of polished brass and varnished brightwork and should make a handsome model.
 
There is a whole fleet of these but almost all have been converted to diesel.
Roger
 
P.S.  I believe that she has an iron or steel hull.o

Back in the good old days, plywood was made with "resorcinol glues."  These were synthetic plastic resin glues.  The glues came in two parts, a resin and a powder that were mixed together.  My father and I used a lot of the stuff in 1960 in the construction  of a sailboat.  It was easy to use, worked every time ind did not involve water.  
 
According to the internet resorcinol glues are still available.  DAP apparently makes one but it is sold as a powder to be mixed with water.  Titebond III is apparently another and is sold premixed (with water?). The two part resorcinol glues like I used appear to be available but I didn't see any small quantities. In the boatbuilding world resorcinol glues have supposedly been superseded by epoxies.  I have personally had excellent experience using WEST SYSTEM epoxies and these would work well for your purpose.  In recent years these have been produced in small disposable units so you might research this option.
 
Roger

I did a little more internet research on glues.  Apparently the family of glues known as Urea Formaldehydes are preferred for laminated structures such as plywood.  These were used way back in WWII to build the famous RAF Mosquito bombers. These were built with balsa cores and birch veneer laminated inside and outside to produce a very stiff structure.  The same principal as a foam or balsa cored fiberglass boat.  These glues which are readily available and cheap will stand up to the high clamping forces required.
 
Roger

Back in the good old days, plywood was made with "resorcinol glues."  These were synthetic plastic resin glues.  The glues came in two parts, a resin and a powder that were mixed together.  My father and I used a lot of the stuff in 1960 in the construction  of a sailboat.  It was easy to use, worked every time ind did not involve water.  
 
According to the internet resorcinol glues are still available.  DAP apparently makes one but it is sold as a powder to be mixed with water.  Titebond III is apparently another and is sold premixed (with water?). The two part resorcinol glues like I used appear to be available but I didn't see any small quantities. In the boatbuilding world resorcinol glues have supposedly been superseded by epoxies.  I have personally had excellent experience using WEST SYSTEM epoxies and these would work well for your purpose.  In recent years these have been produced in small disposable units so you might research this option.
 
Roger