shiloh

Davey, that is quality planking and the color variation does not detract from that, it seems to enhance the planking, be a shame to paint over that hull below the waterline.
jud

That twisting has been happening since ropes were first put to use in blocks. Pre stretching, using a load only heavy enough to take the stretch out and re-train the memory gained from being in a tight coil has often been used. There are reasons that a block should be free to turn under load so fixing the blocks, so there can be no turning, will cause the line to chafe at the block it self. Thread the tackle with the lay of the rope, using the side view, ‘right lay, thread clockwise’. Sometimes tumbling the bottom block through the tackle will reduce the tendency to twist, might need to undo and tumble the other way if you have the wrong result. Stoppers are recommended to be on hand in case there is a problem, seamen have been known to descend the hanging rig with a fid in an hand to use in opening up a twisted fall so the tackle can run, not a safe thing to do. Blocks and Tackle will want to twist if it can until the rig is well worked in to it’s job, works the best just before it needs replacing. Modelers have other options, but using the methods learned the hard way could cut down on some rigging problems. Can remember the old cowboys saying that to prepare your catch rope properly was to drag it behind your horse for half a day, never did that but did pull 300 foot surveyors chains many miles, puts a nice polish on a lightly rusted steel chain.
jud

Just remembered that there was an old Scroll Saw floating around the shop, don't know where it came from. Knocked the crud off and took some photos, thought someone might be interested. Uses coping saw blades and has a two speed pulley setup. Hooking it up to a power supply and a new table should be all that is needed to put her back to work.

Davey, that is quality planking and the color variation does not detract from that, it seems to enhance the planking, be a shame to paint over that hull below the waterline.
jud

Think I would use a flat surface and secure the hull to it with the deck perpendicular to the flat surface. At the stem and stern post measure up from the flat surface to the C/L at each end, adjust until equal and secure the hull at that point, making sure that the angle from the flat surface to the athwart ship deck line near amidships was still at a 90° angle.
Then use a sliding marker set at the measured C/L at the bow and run her around the hull marking as you go, until reaching the starting point. That will show any adjustments needed to obtain a uniform C/L mark around the hull and revealing any adjustments needed before permanently marking the hull Center line.
jud

Just remembered that there was an old Scroll Saw floating around the shop, don't know where it came from. Knocked the crud off and took some photos, thought someone might be interested. Uses coping saw blades and has a two speed pulley setup. Hooking it up to a power supply and a new table should be all that is needed to put her back to work.

Sometimes, even out in the wide open spaces tools in your pocket are not safe from critters. Wife had a horse that liked to steal the hoof file while I was using a hoof knife on his hoof. Kept the hoof file in my rear pocket so I could grab it and not need to put the hoof down and go git it. He would grab it and hold it up, way above my head and grin while I was hoping and pleading with him to give it back without dropping it on me, the tone of my voice seemed to change when I got the file back in my hands, but he kept on grinning, those who have been around horses know what I mean by grinning.  He was named Shiloh which is my wife's user name here.
jud

You are so kind, Denis. Thx for nice words and the like
 
So, I enlarged whole structure a bit to be able to do anything, and here it is ... In 100% scale, pillars in their largest diameter are thinner than toothpick, and horizontal molding has to be less than a 1mm thick, and pins thinner than 0,5 mm. All this can be seen on a little drawing on a paper below, at a photo No#1. I am not sure, even I eventualy succed to make it so small, that structure aven made of bamboo can hold any force of a one single attached rope line. So, my decision was to overscale a bit just to get some additional strenght, and to make it possible to be made for my fat fingers and bad eyes.
 
All is made from bamboo (except base of pillars)...
 
So, last attempt or first of two ... ... We'll see ...Something to think about over night
 

 

 

 
Temporary on place with bollard. Pins are brass wire 0,75mm dia, painted with acrylic. It seems to be pointless on such a scale to thin diameter of lower part of pins.
 
Considering I have seen CS kits where pinrails on aft deck are doubled size, I think it all will be just fine
 

 

 

 
Only left to drill and mount brass wire as future connection to deck

BBQ strips have exactly same diameter as my "Einhell" rotary tools, so ... at slow speed, short pieces, sandpaper and "exacto", playing until I catch line of moves, and that is it. Not bad for this scale. Basement is made from two glued square 4x2mm strips, drilled through to dia of toothpick,Ca glue, veneer down, so here it is. When I start making final, I'll show whole process. I found BBQ stuff more stronger than another wooden pieces I have. They can not be fine fine fine sanded without putty, because of their longitudinal "bamboo" structure, but in this scale, it just can not been seen
 
Bollards have bigger dia, and I made them without rotary tool. They are small and will be hidden under ropes etc, and it just does not matter. Thx for following and support, Mark
 
BTW, yes, spice is all around, and it flows ! My social life comes back, little moves forward in job also, kids are well and I enjoy in their success and moving forward in life, and almost everything seems to be ok. (OK, as every attorney, I am good in lies ... Admiral still miss me very much, but it seems I started to learn to live with it)

Thx friend for nice words. Unfortunately, I don't like field of crime law attorney practice, in the way it works in my country. Far away from real defense job, judge and prosecutor both at same side against your client and you ... and thin evidences and logic just mean - nothing. But "trade" and fear mean - everything. There is no place for you there if you are honest, ethic, and full professional type of attorney. I do not like to work in this field, so I turned myself to corporate, labour, sport and civil law field 32 years ago

1.  Hide glue does not penetrate deep into the surfaces of wood, but I find that it is still necessary to remove excesses glue by light chipping or sanding.  That said, it's far better than any synthetic glue.
 
2.  Hide glue should not have a strong odor.  If it does, that may indicate fungal/bacterial contamination and it should be thrown away.
 
When I prepare I hide glue, usually Behlen's or a glue from a luthier supply, I make it in 50ml batches in polypropylene orange-top tissue culture tubes.  After initial preparation according to the instructions, I heat it for 4-8hrs at 140F and then tightly screw down the caps.  In these tubes the glue will keep for months on the shelf.  Other luthiers put their mixed glue in ice cube trays and keep them frozen until needed.
 
And finally, here's information on hide glue (esp Old Brown glue), including methods of a Smithsonian Conservator:  
 
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/hide-glue-in-liquid-form

I took a look at the tables in The Art of Rigging and for a ship rigged vessel of about 300 tons the Main Shrouds would be 7 inch rope (circumference) and the ratlines would be 1 inch.  If you go down to a 200 hundred ton ship the shrouds are 6 inch.  Not sure what the tonnage of Bounty was.
 
So, 7 inch rope is 2.2 inch diameter, at your model scale is 0.02 inch (0.5mm)
and 1 inch rope is 0.3 inch diameter, at your scale is 0.003 inch(0.07mm)
 
So you see what I mean about the ratlines on the pre-formed stuff being way too thick.
 
The laniards for the deadeyes are half the diameter of the shrouds.
 
Not sure if anyone supplies iron stropped deadeyes, or the chains and backing links.
 
All that being said, since this is your first foray into shrouds and ratlines, don't let all this minutiae intimidate you and cause you to stop your build.  I am one of those crazy people who love the rigging of these ships and I tend to go a little nuts with the detail on my build.
Do whatever is comfortable for you, and enjoy your build.
 
Regards,

I've built several guitars with traditional hot hide glue (HHG) from ground granules/flakes.  I believe that it is superior for building stringed instruments, because it dries very stiff and tight (there is no creeping under mechanical loading), it is reversible and repairable (there is no need to completely scrape/sand off the previously applied HHG), and it is compatible with clear finishes (Hallelujah! no glue stains such as from synthetic glues).  However, these qualities are not necessarily useful for modeling.
 
The parts to be joined must be fitted carefully because HHG will not fill gaps.  HHG must be applied at ~140F, and it does not bind when it cools to ~100-120F unless additives such as urea or salt are added. I use no additives to extend the open time (about 20-30sec), and so when it comes time to glue up, I practice every step and have every clamp at hand and preset.  I sometimes pre-warm parts to be joined.
 
I would >never ever< use Franklin Liquid Hide glue for a musical instrument, but it may be okay for modeling.  It takes days for it cure, and if it's after it expiration date (stamped on the bottle), it may never cure completely.  Old Brown Glue is similar to the Franklin glue, but I have not used it, and I would not use it for a musical instrument.  Both of these glues are engineered to provide extended open time, and so that might be useful for complex furniture assemblies.
 
I hope that's useful info for you.

very pleased to see that there's a happy ending ..........the queen lives!

I am also surprised how good she looks ! Ok, some trifle here and there, some color correction on standing, but it is really OK

Thanks Jud.  The marking tool was a bit of a challenge as I figured I may need something similar in the future, and a block of wood with a pencil taped to it just wasn't my style. Lol
 
Hal

Using metal requires heat, how much depends on the material, also you need to determine what the material used shrink rates are and compensate for it in the pattern. Think that most modelers use resin and soft molds. Molding tin would not be difficult to get set up for, might look at some data on the Lost Wax Method, the molds are simpler than sand molds and fit small scale more efficiently. Using sand molds you can pour Iron and brass in large quantities. Someone will be here that casts resin with soft molds that will have some experience to share.
 
Something else you might consider is using Key Stock, I keep it around to cut small parts from, soft and easy to work. With the right size piece of key stock, a file and maybe a fine tooth hack saw, something to hang on to ( leave a handle in the stock you are making your piece from, cut it off as a last step ), and a vice. you can shape something fairly easily.
jud

Well I managed to re-arrange the pics and text properly.  Sometimes I simply amaze myself.  I hope this helps future shipwright/modelers.
 
I thank all the input from other members as I worked on this 'how to' project.
 
Cheers to all. Hal

Hello everyone.  I had earlier posed the question as how to find the center line on a pre carved machined wooden hull.  I used the comments from several members and came up with a plan as to how to do this.  As promised, here are some pics and text as to how I confronted this question.
 
  
 
This is the working platform, a smooth plastic coated 12" x 24" shelf board.
 
 
   
Here is the carved hull with the hold down tabs.  Made from 3/4" x 1/8" aluminum bar stock,  with a slight "S" bend and screw hole centered.  Here you can see the two pins, centered 'by eye' at the bow and stern.  Also note the two thin wood wedges which I used to 'jam' under the hull from the back side to hold it in place, as seen in the next pic.
 
 
  
 
The hull is attached to the work board using the tabs and screws.  I placed a pin at the bow and stern at a visual center point.  The hull is then 'balanced' on its resting point, keeping the two pins equal distance above the board .
 
   
 
Here is the marking tool I fabricated using a pencil compass (modified), wood block, tall machine bolt with nuts, brass tube with inside diameter matching the bolt, and several small screws to hold it together.  A wrap around strip of brass was soldered to the tube, and this was then bolted to the cut-off pointer section of the compass.  This allowed the assembly to be adjusted vertically in the bolt and also providing an angle range to aid in reaching over-under areas.
 
  
 
The hull now has a "center line" marked; bow to stern along the keel-son, and bow to stern on the deck.
 
  
 
The hull is shown here with the marking tool and the 90 degree triangle amidships.
 
   
 
Detail close-up of the hold down tabs with the hull securely held in place.

She looks mighty fine on her throne Nenad, mighty fine.
We are all awaiting further construction on her majesty.
 
Cheers,

Oh what a day ... 15°C outside, first gardening works this season, cooking, visiting Old Lady, going to swiming pool to swim my weekly 1km, helping Hothead to wash and start preparing his bike for season, at evening kids went to downtown, and after a few hours, Her Majesty is at Her working throne, at last






The best colateral thing is, that throne can enter into Her dust protecting wall shelf



And I am happy to go forward to finish aft deck one of this days

Using metal requires heat, how much depends on the material, also you need to determine what the material used shrink rates are and compensate for it in the pattern. Think that most modelers use resin and soft molds. Molding tin would not be difficult to get set up for, might look at some data on the Lost Wax Method, the molds are simpler than sand molds and fit small scale more efficiently. Using sand molds you can pour Iron and brass in large quantities. Someone will be here that casts resin with soft molds that will have some experience to share.
 
Something else you might consider is using Key Stock, I keep it around to cut small parts from, soft and easy to work. With the right size piece of key stock, a file and maybe a fine tooth hack saw, something to hang on to ( leave a handle in the stock you are making your piece from, cut it off as a last step ), and a vice. you can shape something fairly easily.
jud

Hide glue is used in hand made saddles, by older saddle makers, in the seat and forks, slow drying so stretching and fitting can be done, drys hard but water soluble. Think it was the main stay in cabinet and furniture making in the past. Usually purchased in a powder form and mixed with water as needed. Being water soluble it works well in saddle making because if the saddle gets wet, so will the glue which allows the leather to expand and then move back into place as it dries.
jud

Hi Michael,
 
For metal casting, I like the 10 to 1 RTV silicone rubber that Micromark sells. It can take up to 600˚ F or about 450˚ sustained.I tried using stuff from TAP Plastics, which works, but it's thicker and harder to work with I think.
 
I started casting Britannia Pewter, but the melt temperatures are high and so I started using a Tin/Bismuth alloy. I recommend staying away from lead.
 
Rotometals.com has a whole range of low melt alloys and their prices are much better than buying them from Micromark. 
 
Personally, I enjoyed learning the new skill.
 
Clare

As he said, his 14 year old plans leave something to be desire in the details. He would probably appreciate some input in that department especially since he has no ship building experience to draw on or even provide him with a heads up to trigger a question in advance.
jud