liteflight

Kris,  
Glad it tickled you.  Mind you none of this, as Louie-da-Fly sez is supposed to be fun!
No doubt that is why he rigorously stamps out and eliminates redundancy:  and any hint of levity!
 
Progress with Osberg!
 
 
 

This is how bent the prow was when I removed the prow and stern doublers.  I WILL get it straight!
 
And after a few sessions of hot (boiling) water and clamping with progressively smaller spacers it is now reasonably acceptable.  The part is made of 5-ply but only the outer layers are the finish wood - the rest appear to be a very soft and porous wood.
The prow now has just a small twist, so that the dragon is looking a few degrees to the side - no doubt looking where the ship is turning to.  I may (or may not) try and eliminate this last twist
 
I have pared the inner layer off the laser-engraved scrollwork, sanded it all smooth and glued all 4 of the main bits of dragon scrollwork to the keel.
Also made a little jig and marked all the frames so that I can add a floor support which will land 1.8mm below the horizontal part of each frame
This is a rather strange view of the marking going on - I am caggy-fisted (left handed for English speakers) 

the spacer used in the jig is , naturally a length of the 1.8mm obechi which will (probably) be used for the flooring. 
I am hoping that the regrettably open grain of the obechi will resemble the look of old riven (cleft) oak.
Hoping is free!

 
So after a second round of careful fitting of the notches on keel and Frames (the stain proved to have made several of the parts expand enough to prevent assembly)  Unexpected! but lesson learned
 
The kit supplies some parts to make an inverted jig for planking - laser cut ply parts to elevate the frame and locate the prow and stern.
 
But by installing the scrollwork at this stage I need to modify the supplied jig to raise the whole support assembly by another 30mm so that the rather fragile dragons head scrolls do not contact the build board.  Also by lowering the long stringers by the floor thickness I have "raised" them as far as the jig is concerned, but this is negligible compared with the 30mm for the scrolls.

This is the inverted (planking) support structure .  The ply plates are supplied, and they have a pair of 4 x 8 stringers which are clipped to the ship stringers with the yellow clamps shown (the "instructions" show clothespegs to hold them together.
 

The stringers on the ship are showing some loss of stain - this is because the stain caused them to expand too much to fit the laser-cut slots in the frames.  Rectified by sanding the sides of the stringers till they fitted correctly.  I'm not too upset at the uneven look as I expected to do a considerable amount of making the staining look even, anyway.
 
So now I believe that I am close to being able to start the planking.  Trial fit of the garboard strake shows that it conforms well to the keel and rebate shape and the twist of near 90 degrees is no problem with mm ply.  I will probably hot set the strakes so that the glue is not holding any large bending or twisting.
 
I still have to fair the frames so that the planking can lie flat against all frames.  This did not seem too severe when I tried the Garboard strake,  even with the end frames.  I expect to use a batten to establish a fair curve, and I have just taken dozens of tongues off Tongue and groove floorboards, so I think I have ready-made battens!
 
I think that I read somewhere that the actual Qseberg strakes were approx 25 to 30mm thick.  At 25:1 scale this translates to 1mm, so scale planking!
 

Tung oil application on the decks. Process is like this; I apply tung oil by a paintbrush to the deck surface, to help for penetration of the oil, i sand the surface by No:1000 sandpaper and finally, i clean residue of oil by a piece of cotton fabric. I repeated this process 3 times after oil dried. Result was very nice, i got a quite smooth surface and a natural look. Tung oil is a good wood protector also.
 
 

And after the diversion the castles are better and stronger, toooo.
 
I have some faint recollection of an historic ship that you were building and contemplating the rigging of ( please excuse me for using a preposition to end a sentence with)
 
I would apologise for inadvertently triggering the diversion, but I enjoyed it and hope that it was a valid therapy for “carvers thumb of the brain” and/or xylokastra blues.
 
You followed effectively the aeromodellers mantra which is that following re-kitting (aka a tentpeg landing) you place the bits in a bag and do not look at them on that day.
The next day, magically, they are not as badly comminuted and you can see the way to repair it.

Interesting weird eclectic knowledge that the denizens of this forum posess!  
 
not only on the detail of dromonry, but the far edges of linguistics as well.  I feel in serious danger of learning several new things each day,!
 
And at my age learning new stuff, even about boatbuilding, is a GOOD THING

And after the diversion the castles are better and stronger, toooo.
 
I have some faint recollection of an historic ship that you were building and contemplating the rigging of ( please excuse me for using a preposition to end a sentence with)
 
I would apologise for inadvertently triggering the diversion, but I enjoyed it and hope that it was a valid therapy for “carvers thumb of the brain” and/or xylokastra blues.
 
You followed effectively the aeromodellers mantra which is that following re-kitting (aka a tentpeg landing) you place the bits in a bag and do not look at them on that day.
The next day, magically, they are not as badly comminuted and you can see the way to repair it.

I note the tidy nature of the workbench; and after all that carving.  
I note also, with intense curiosity, the Vegemite jar.
A natural stain for a homespun rowers tunic?  Lubrication for a thole pin? 
I also love the scale clothes peg and will have to go and create a venerable text On its use as a pseudoparrell.

Progress, and a few learning experiences on the ship ( wish I had a name, everything needs a name)
Dark now, so no new photos
 
good news - I have tried fitting the garboard strake, and it seems to want to belong, and the near 90 degree twist is easy in the 1mm ply good news - a quick inspection shows that the end frames will not need much fairing, but maybe more as I get up towards the gunwales Good news- the prow is near enough straight after some brutally honest discussion involving boiling water and clamps Less good news, - the ply snapped we discussed the required degree of straightness, but has been fully repaired less good news- the stain I had commenced using is the mixture of mahogany and walnut, not the walnut alone.   AND it causes both the Billing’s ply and obechi to expand considerably!  Unexpected,  as it is spirit-based, but rectifiable  
 
Photos follow of the frames finally fitted, marking height on each frame for the deck support batten, the longitudinal stiffeners ( which I managed to break as a result of notching them to half their depth so that they clear the final floor

Can’t find a way to drag images into text on the iPad, so I won’t 
photos in better order tomorrow
 

Well I have learned qch de nouveau today, and it isn’t finished yet!

Well I have learned qch de nouveau today, and it isn’t finished yet!

Thanks, Steven
I also found the various paintings, and some of them are very “atmospheric” and would be inspiring
I’m unsure about the policy on reproducing assorted pictures on this Forum
Apart from the Maltese models for sale, most of the models seem to be the same one from, I think, Model Boats.  
The second and third references are similar rigs, and powerfully evocative to me.  There is also an interesting wee triangular sail apparently flying from the sprits, or praps the captain’s bikini being dried after a refreshing swim?

 
No, you wouldn’t.
I learned this from my Father, who was a French teacher after the war.  It’s not poetic and is far too simple to be thought about.
Poetry? I don’t know any! Much
In actual fact I don’t know how to forget any poetry, including all the hymns and songs ever heard!  

I note the tidy nature of the workbench; and after all that carving.  
I note also, with intense curiosity, the Vegemite jar.
A natural stain for a homespun rowers tunic?  Lubrication for a thole pin? 
I also love the scale clothes peg and will have to go and create a venerable text On its use as a pseudoparrell.

Steven
Love the lateen pics.
 In my future lies a a sailing Luzzu.  There was a plan published in one of the comics, but the sailing rig was a bit conjectural with two lateen sails and a headsail set on a bowsprit
 
The picture of the unfurled (unbrailed) sail 
 
Would be hazardous in the extreme if the wind was coming abeam and rising.  I can see that on the narrow beam if a dromon it would get snargled round Tholes, oars, coffee cup holders etc, as well as dipping in the water and becoming unmanageable.  The captains (nautarchs?) would be well advised to douse the sails early and break out the sweeps.
 
with your carving skills, the enterprising chap on a rope would be, I hope, fun and a relief from rows and rows of rowers!

 As to him swinging round; You could
a)Cheat and wire the rope to stiffen it (I often use copper wire repurposed from transformers, etc) Or have him with an artifact slung over his shoulder which acts as a steady, or perhaps a long-stemmed rose held in the teeeeth to serve as a steady
b) let him swing.  How flukey are the winds indoors in Ballarat, eh? 
c) pose him like stout Cortez well up the yard gazing at something with a wild surmise ( I used to wonder if this was some sort of telescope, and why would it be so wild?)
 

Steven
Love the lateen pics.
 In my future lies a a sailing Luzzu.  There was a plan published in one of the comics, but the sailing rig was a bit conjectural with two lateen sails and a headsail set on a bowsprit
 
The picture of the unfurled (unbrailed) sail 
 
Would be hazardous in the extreme if the wind was coming abeam and rising.  I can see that on the narrow beam if a dromon it would get snargled round Tholes, oars, coffee cup holders etc, as well as dipping in the water and becoming unmanageable.  The captains (nautarchs?) would be well advised to douse the sails early and break out the sweeps.
 
with your carving skills, the enterprising chap on a rope would be, I hope, fun and a relief from rows and rows of rowers!

 As to him swinging round; You could
a)Cheat and wire the rope to stiffen it (I often use copper wire repurposed from transformers, etc) Or have him with an artifact slung over his shoulder which acts as a steady, or perhaps a long-stemmed rose held in the teeeeth to serve as a steady
b) let him swing.  How flukey are the winds indoors in Ballarat, eh? 
c) pose him like stout Cortez well up the yard gazing at something with a wild surmise ( I used to wonder if this was some sort of telescope, and why would it be so wild?)
 

Progress, and a few learning experiences on the ship ( wish I had a name, everything needs a name)
Dark now, so no new photos
 
good news - I have tried fitting the garboard strake, and it seems to want to belong, and the near 90 degree twist is easy in the 1mm ply good news - a quick inspection shows that the end frames will not need much fairing, but maybe more as I get up towards the gunwales Good news- the prow is near enough straight after some brutally honest discussion involving boiling water and clamps Less good news, - the ply snapped we discussed the required degree of straightness, but has been fully repaired less good news- the stain I had commenced using is the mixture of mahogany and walnut, not the walnut alone.   AND it causes both the Billing’s ply and obechi to expand considerably!  Unexpected,  as it is spirit-based, but rectifiable  
 
Photos follow of the frames finally fitted, marking height on each frame for the deck support batten, the longitudinal stiffeners ( which I managed to break as a result of notching them to half their depth so that they clear the final floor

Can’t find a way to drag images into text on the iPad, so I won’t 
photos in better order tomorrow
 

A little progress!
 
Slow but deliberate, I like to think.
 
I have also decided that The Oseberg ship (needs a name) IS the personal ceremonial conveyance of Queen Asa and that the aforesaid lady is a Good Thing, and appreciates her Ship.   
I am aware about the debates, and I have decided that academics are doing what they do - arguing: and I will do what I do  - imagining, building and learning!
 
And one step backwards!  The prow bend has returned!  It will not be tolerated and will be heated/counterbent out of existence.  In normal circumstance I would proceed smartly to Float-a-Boat (this is a wonderful name, especially when pronounced if rich Geordie - the dialect of Newcastle-upon-Tyne) and buy some 4mm birch ply and remake the offending part.  
After a lot of thought I am fairly certain that the distortion of this bit of ply is the cause of the "non-laser-cutting " of the end of the sheet where it resided.  Probably this end of the sheet was jacked away from the platen by the bend.
I will sort the bend, and NOW is the best time to do so, as the ply is now stripped of doublers and available for massage.
 
Staining
A bottle of stain in the hand is worth 64 theoretical stains on a shade chart, so I have proceeded to stain the faces of the frames.  I have also covered the exposed ply edges of the end frames with pine veneer using my hot-melt technique.

 
because some of the radii are small  - in both directions - I have wetted the veneer, draped it into place and tacked it down with the "barrel" of the soldering iron - set to 200 degC.
Then the veneer was applied over the whole area by mostly rolling the iron along so that the veneer followed the curves
In the photo the rear frame was veneered with unstained veneer, and the front frame with pre-stained veneer.  This may account for the colour difference where the veneer is fixed to the cedar insert.  I have not tried to even the colour out yet, but I would not be too upset if it remained like that.
 
Frame stringers
I have decided to follow (faint but pursuing) the examples of Jack P and Von Kossa.  They insinuated a frame between each of the kit frames and thus made the hull structure above the floor look a lot more scale.
This is also essential if the floor is to look anything like the actual ship.
The kit provides long Obechi planks 1.8mm x 12 for decking, and they are supposed to run the full length of the deck.  They  are supposed to rest on the tops of the frames, and be cut out to fit around the frames.
Easy decision - NO! 
How would we bale when the Queen's picnic party was hit by a squall and shipped a lot of 'oggin which is then sloshing round in the bilges and making the ship terribly mushy? 
Have YOU ever carried a full baby bath after bathing your little darling on the floor in front of the fire? 
You have?   
Then you know EXACTLY how the ship feels when she needs baling, and your feet were warmer and better-smelling than the crew's!
 
So we will have scale (ish) floorboards fitted between the frames.
SO
Floorboards level with the top of the frames means that the floorboard thwartships bearers have to be 1.8mm below the frame horizontal parts
So
The longitudinal 4 x 8 battens which stiffen the frame assembly before planking will have to be lowered by 1.8mm.  I considered deepening the cutouts in each frame - but instead have marked and cut out the battens.  I am now searching for my diamond needle files to tidy up the cutouts.
Tonight I will read my Guru's build logs (again)  to find out what they did to sort the floor levels.  I suspect that JackP used thick enough oak veneer on the ply frame to raise the frame level, and I KNOW that he made the floor from thin white oak planks.
 
During the "notching" process (razor saw and no 11 scalpel ) I discovered again why Obechi is off my Christmas list

Huge and wavy grain - nearly impossible to make any sort of exact shape
However these obechi parts are used in compression , and only functional in the early parts of planking to stiffen the backbone. 
 

Apologies for the messy picture.  This is where and how they go.  You can almost see (if you stand on tiptoe and squint) that the stringers are recessed below the horizontal parts of the frames.
Nothing is fitted yet or glued, so the stringers are being retained in the frames by faith and friction.
 
Scrollworks!
I have commenced thinning the supplied 3-ply laser etched scrollworks.  As supplied (3-ply) is 2.1mm thick.
I have winkled chibbled  gnawed  delicately chiseled the rear ply off and sanded the back.  Fairly successful once I discovered that
A) the best weapon is a narrow chisel
and b) sometimes I can find the joint line of weakness, and a lot of the ply comes off with zero force
C) Not easy to hold the increasingly weak part while keeping all the fingers behind the chisel
 

This is the favourite tool for this process
I broke off one head by being hamfisted, and have therefore glued it back on - hence the greaseproof paper and weight!
 
Australia and solvents, eh?
 
Louie da Fly has a LOT to answer for!  He sent me hi-res images of the actual scrollwork - which is actually beautiful intertwined supporting beasts and a dragon's head - and now I NEED to do something about this!
The carvings are now a goal.  Maybe not for this build, but perhaps the next!  

Well I have learned qch de nouveau today, and it isn’t finished yet!

I note the tidy nature of the workbench; and after all that carving.  
I note also, with intense curiosity, the Vegemite jar.
A natural stain for a homespun rowers tunic?  Lubrication for a thole pin? 
I also love the scale clothes peg and will have to go and create a venerable text On its use as a pseudoparrell.

Steven
Love the lateen pics.
 In my future lies a a sailing Luzzu.  There was a plan published in one of the comics, but the sailing rig was a bit conjectural with two lateen sails and a headsail set on a bowsprit
 
The picture of the unfurled (unbrailed) sail 
 
Would be hazardous in the extreme if the wind was coming abeam and rising.  I can see that on the narrow beam if a dromon it would get snargled round Tholes, oars, coffee cup holders etc, as well as dipping in the water and becoming unmanageable.  The captains (nautarchs?) would be well advised to douse the sails early and break out the sweeps.
 
with your carving skills, the enterprising chap on a rope would be, I hope, fun and a relief from rows and rows of rowers!

 As to him swinging round; You could
a)Cheat and wire the rope to stiffen it (I often use copper wire repurposed from transformers, etc) Or have him with an artifact slung over his shoulder which acts as a steady, or perhaps a long-stemmed rose held in the teeeeth to serve as a steady
b) let him swing.  How flukey are the winds indoors in Ballarat, eh? 
c) pose him like stout Cortez well up the yard gazing at something with a wild surmise ( I used to wonder if this was some sort of telescope, and why would it be so wild?)
 

What a relief!  Now I understand all the baffled looks when I sang.
 
If the sails would only be used for running with the wind astern or very close to that; there would be little need for tacking, or handing the sail round the mast.  So the running rigging would be simpler as the decision would be “sail or not sail”.  So I’m not sure about the rope you label as “vang” and it’s usefulness.  I have sailed Thames Barges with a big sprit rig, and the vangs would only be used for close-hauled work.  ( I have still not become quite reconciled to transatlantic use of the word to mean a kicking-strap, nor it’s pronunciation as spelled).  
 
But, especially in the Med, brailing would be important to kill the sail if the wind got into a sub-optimal direction. Dropping the halliard would be faster? But more messy and hazardous to keep the sail under control with the wind, say, on the beam.
 
Do sail handlers  really shin up lateen rigs to furl the sail (or release jammed brails ). Must do I suppose, and it would be a colourful addition to your dromon.

Thinking a bit further, It would be a good place for a lookout, if not very comfortable, but it would not be impossible to have a semi-permanent canvas sling seat for a lookout.  Kinder anyway than a bight of rope on bare feet.
but this would only work if the yard was raised in the sailing position.  And even a fully braided sail would present a severe windage to an unkind wind.
 

I note the tidy nature of the workbench; and after all that carving.  
I note also, with intense curiosity, the Vegemite jar.
A natural stain for a homespun rowers tunic?  Lubrication for a thole pin? 
I also love the scale clothes peg and will have to go and create a venerable text On its use as a pseudoparrell.

I note the tidy nature of the workbench; and after all that carving.  
I note also, with intense curiosity, the Vegemite jar.
A natural stain for a homespun rowers tunic?  Lubrication for a thole pin? 
I also love the scale clothes peg and will have to go and create a venerable text On its use as a pseudoparrell.

Thanks Steven!
 

Before lining off I had to mark the shear. I clamped a wide plank to get the line as straight as I could.
 

I have seen people use this kind of template for lining off and made my own to get the different strake widths correct.
 

All frames lined off.
 

I made templates for the planks using masking  tape.
 

Planks held in place with lots of clamps
 

Treenails made from bamboo toothpicks corrected in size using my home made drawing plate (fancy name for a hole drilled in a steel plate). They are functioning and sticks out on the other side.
 

The inside will look like an inverted hedgehog when the planking is finished.
 

Gardboards are done! I try to mimic the placement of the joints of the planks in the strakes with the original's. They were sometimes placed between frames, but I will have them all on top of frames to make it easier.

For my 2 denarii worth, she would look awesome with a pair of goose winged lateens.  ( and no glue globs)
Who knows if sail was used at the same time as oars (sweeps), but I would take a fair bet that it was done, because it could be done.
 
So when you have completed the research and rig- could you fancy a quinquireme (port of registry Nineveh, last port of call: Ophir) with full and weary crew and peacock sound effects?
 
I see you have a neat French bon mot as your signature.  I am always puzzled by the French canadien song about “ Alumette, gentil Alumette ,  je te plumerai.....”. 
Or do I have something grabled?

Yes, that would be rather confusing to all concerned (if they understood French!)
 
I'd agree with you about tacking - I don't think it would happen, they'd only be wearing, but as Mark points out, that means the danger of gybing (even with what is the equivalent of a loose-footed sail) which could capsize the vessel rather too easily.
 
Vangs appear on many, but not all pictures (both contemporary, and modern photos) of lateeners I've been able to find. I expect it's intended to keep the upper end of the yard from swinging too far to one side or the other.
 
Dropping the halyard may well be faster, and it seems to be a fairly common practice on dhows, from the photos I've got. In fact it looks in this photo like the sail may be hauled up unfurled, fbut it's a bit hard to be sure whether the unfurled sail is attached to the yard they're hauling up or behind it. But the second photo seems to indicate the sail is down near the deck but unfurled.
 
  
 
Yep. 
 
  
 
So it can be done (no rope ladders on my model). And yes, I've thought of adding a figure doing that, but it would be difficult to keep him from spinning around with only a single rope keeping him in place.
 
There's no sign of "crows nests" until about the middle of the 13th century, much too late for my dromon. So any lookout would have to perch at the top of the mast any way he could . . . or maybe he could sit on the yard;
 

 
 
 
 

What a relief!  Now I understand all the baffled looks when I sang.
 
If the sails would only be used for running with the wind astern or very close to that; there would be little need for tacking, or handing the sail round the mast.  So the running rigging would be simpler as the decision would be “sail or not sail”.  So I’m not sure about the rope you label as “vang” and it’s usefulness.  I have sailed Thames Barges with a big sprit rig, and the vangs would only be used for close-hauled work.  ( I have still not become quite reconciled to transatlantic use of the word to mean a kicking-strap, nor it’s pronunciation as spelled).  
 
But, especially in the Med, brailing would be important to kill the sail if the wind got into a sub-optimal direction. Dropping the halliard would be faster? But more messy and hazardous to keep the sail under control with the wind, say, on the beam.
 
Do sail handlers  really shin up lateen rigs to furl the sail (or release jammed brails ). Must do I suppose, and it would be a colourful addition to your dromon.

Thinking a bit further, It would be a good place for a lookout, if not very comfortable, but it would not be impossible to have a semi-permanent canvas sling seat for a lookout.  Kinder anyway than a bight of rope on bare feet.
but this would only work if the yard was raised in the sailing position.  And even a fully braided sail would present a severe windage to an unkind wind.