EJ_L

I've built this model and the easiest thing about it was opening the box. If all you use is glue and a hobby knife, you will end up with a pile of wood sticks and metal decorations stuck together in a vague shape of a ship after it was tossed ashore by a hurricane.
 
As someone who has never been traditional in building easier ships and gradually working up to the big ones, I will not say a beginner cannot do this ship, but you will need more than a knife and glue and chances are high that one will become extremely frustrated with the instructions and time involved and never complete it. I forget the exact count, it is on my build log, but I know I worked on this model for over 2,000 hours.

Unfortunately for beginning ship model builders, many of the available kits have instructions that are more like reading blueprints than traditional instructions. I think that the plastic kits by Revel and Heller etc., do a better job of providing more step-by-step instructions than wooden kits. Finding those easier kits is good as they will give you the basics needed to make the harder ones easier to understand. Most kits at their base levels are the same. A plank on bulkhead goes together in much the same way regardless of scale or size. The main differences come in the amount of details, guns carvings and rigging.
 
Use the community as well. Most of the common models available have logs, lots of pictures and people that can offer advice and guidance when something is unclear.

I highly encourage people to start small and work up and fully support messages like this cautionary tale however I say that as a "do what I say not as I do" message. The only beginner ship I built was Constructo's 1:150 scale Bounty and it was my seventh build. It was more of a filler ship build that I had picked up while waiting on La Couronne to arrive. I've always been one to dive into the the deep end from the start and while I will never say that all those experiences turned out good, it is just the way I am. I have a few bad models as a result of doing things this way that while I am proud of myself for pushing through them, they could have turned out many times better had I started slow. Burnout, frustration and a lack of knowledge and skills limited what I was able to do and as a result I would unknowingly skip critical steps or just settle for what it is as I had no way of knowing any different. Those models are now on the rebuild wish list.
 
Still, I do not discourage a person from tackling that larger, more difficult build from the start if they have their mind set on it. Being passionate about a project is just as important as that drive can help carry you through those tough times when it is easy to quit. Also, with great communities like this one where helpful knowledge and a friendly conversation with people who know your struggle it is much easier to attempt those harder builds early on. We are no longer isolated to build by ourselves and having to figure things out on our own. More than likely that question you have has been asked and is answered on here and probably in multiple threads. I can testify to how well this community works. My current build is my first one on here and just what I have learned from MSW has made this build a hundred times better than the last and myself a much better modeler than what I was a year ago.
 
Know yourself when choosing your model. Know your strengths and weaknesses and be honest about them. Build where you feel comfortable, don't be afraid to ask for help and above all be sure to enjoy it. If you can manage that then you can build any ship you want.   

There is also the fact that often the average person doesn't know what they are looking at to know if it is right or wrong. When I go visit my dad at his Mustang restoration shop, I can see a car in there and go wow!, that is a great looking car. He can then point out the different items that make it not so great. 
 
My first wooden ship model was also the Rattlesnake. I'm proud of it because I built it without having any idea of how to build wooden ships. Prior to that they had all been plastic. Although I proudly display it in a case in my bedroom, it has so many problems from horrible planking, paint, badly built masts and yards to rigging that is far from accurate. My friends and family are of course both polite to not criticize but they are still truly amazed at the work that I did. Most of them are craft hobbyist of one sort or another and so they appreciate the work but none of them have the interest in ships to know what is wrong.
 
Don;t worry about work being perfect. Especially first builds since unless you are unnaturally talented and a good deal lucky, they won't be. Instead give it your best effort knowing there will be bad spots. Then grow on the next one and the next one. Challenge yourself more and learn more on each ship. As long as they continue to improve and most importantly you are having fun, then you are doing good.

I apologize Chris as I am probably one of those members who misunderstood what you were trying to do with the thread.
 
I think another big issue that causes the new builder to get in over there heads is how they are introduced to the hobby or ships in general. They see the Constitution, Victory, Cutty Sark etc. and want to build them because those are the ones in abundance and available to see in person. The inspiration is set to that level of wow! and it is hard from that point to want to build a much simpler ship. Many of the simpler starter kits are of less famous ships and as such they get fewer people who even know about them much less want to build. Then as I have seen others say, "canons are cool!" As a kid inspiration is going to come from that 100 gun man of war and not a small 0-4 gun vessel.
 
I think that to help encourage first time builders to choose a simpler ship to start from is that we need to find ways to promote those smaller, simpler vessels. Just in the 6 month I have been apart of this community my knowledge and exposure to other ships as expanded immensely. I'm not completely sure the best ways of doing this but perhaps one idea would be to somehow find ways of featuring beginner kits and make them appealing. Possibly by listing their history or significance to a particular country by talking them up much like we see on the more popular ships. Even perhaps create a section on here that is specifically for beginner ships so that new comers to the hobby can see other first time builder's work so that they feel more comfortable sharing their work and not feel like their skills are sub par when all they see are some of the great works that are on here.

I am guilty of not finishing some of my kits. In fact there are a few of them listed in my signature as unfinished. One of them I do not feel bad about as it is a joint projects with a friend while I was still in the Navy and is now awaiting his retirement. The others either had issues with the kit, the instructions or I just lost interest in finishing them. The fact that they are plastic kits also has something to do with it as I have grown to love wooden ships more. I still may sit down and finish them one day. 

This has always been a tough decision whit model building in general. My first ship build was the Constitution. It was Revell's plastic 1:96 scale kit. Granted I had been modeling for about 15 years at that point so I was not new to model building, nor complicated builds. I do admit though that there were times when I thought I had bit off more than I could chew with that kit. Even with the kits two piece hull and very good instructions, it is still a very daunting kit to someone who had never built a ship before and maybe more than I should have undertaken. That being said, it came out beautiful two years later and sits proudly in my dad's house as it was him I built it for.
 
Now that being said, I was not interested in building other ships at the time. That one was undertaken as a gift for my dad as he was not able to finish his model of the Constitution and it had become too badly damaged to salvage. Had I started building a simpler ship but without the motivation to build it other than "this looks fun" I may not have wanted to push through to completion when I hit those hard places. I learned a lot on that first build and every time I managed to struggle my way through to completion of a part I would (and still do) sit back and admire it for a long time. This is where my love of ship building was born. Seeing that majestic ship come together and knowing that I made that happen created a love of this hobby and filled that void that other models were not able to do.
 
I know my story is in the minority of first time ship builders. I also know that models are put on hold for many reasons other than burnout. My dad's had to stop because he had me, was going to college, working 2 jobs and then my mom died. He has built models since but never had the time to complete his Constitution before the ship got ruined. A friend of mine from the Navy has a great model railroad layout that never got completed since he was constantly getting deployed and now is getting ready to retire and move so he has to disassemble it. Just recently my own build has stopped as I found out last week my dog of 11 years has cancer, no way to fix it and we had to put him down yesterday. My wife and I are still devastated over this loss.
 
I think it is wise of us as a community of experienced builders to encourage first timers to choose easier kits as it is a shame to see so many unfinished builds out there. However, I do not think we should discourage them if they choose to take on a harder one to start. Instead, be sure to constantly follow their builds and try to offer help and suggestions on how to get through those tough areas when they are reached. We do not always know what outside circumstances may cause a build to stop.

Great video Mark, Thank you for sharing that. I will be checking out his other videos as well.

Welcome! Looks like you have made an impressive models so far! I think I too will stick around and see how she goes. Would like to see some more pictures of her as well as you post them.

Cardinal sin?... no. Black or dark brown rigging was not the actual color of the rope but was caused by the tar that was applied to the standing rigging to protect it from salt, sun and wear. The running rigging was left in it natural state as it was in constant use and the tar would have fouled the blocks and sails not to mention the mess it would have created on the sailors themselves. Seizing would have been either coated in tar or left bare in relation to the use of the rope it was bound to. 
 
As for models, black thread is common on seizing, not so much for historically accuracy, but for making details pop out more on the model. At the end of the day, what matters is if you like it as it will be on display in your home. I have done it both ways myself.

From my own experiences, especially those on S.R., there is a certain satisfaction that comes with carving your own pieces despite the end result. I know I am nowhere near the best carver and many of my pieces are rough, especially faces, but regardless of artistic quality, I am immensely proud that I took the time to do it. Being able to say that all those pieces are hand carved is something that in my opinion, raises a model a step above the rest.
 
I also think that, at least for myself, the bigger challenge is not always the actual carving, but having a clear picture of what it is that is supposed to be carved. Too often the molded kit carvings are muddled and unclear and finding paintings that clearly show what was depicted is rare. There are some books that do a good job of providing drawings or close ups of other models, yet as luck would have it, rarely are they of the vessel needed.
 
Well done thus far and I wish you continuing success as you go along!
 

This has always been a tough decision whit model building in general. My first ship build was the Constitution. It was Revell's plastic 1:96 scale kit. Granted I had been modeling for about 15 years at that point so I was not new to model building, nor complicated builds. I do admit though that there were times when I thought I had bit off more than I could chew with that kit. Even with the kits two piece hull and very good instructions, it is still a very daunting kit to someone who had never built a ship before and maybe more than I should have undertaken. That being said, it came out beautiful two years later and sits proudly in my dad's house as it was him I built it for.
 
Now that being said, I was not interested in building other ships at the time. That one was undertaken as a gift for my dad as he was not able to finish his model of the Constitution and it had become too badly damaged to salvage. Had I started building a simpler ship but without the motivation to build it other than "this looks fun" I may not have wanted to push through to completion when I hit those hard places. I learned a lot on that first build and every time I managed to struggle my way through to completion of a part I would (and still do) sit back and admire it for a long time. This is where my love of ship building was born. Seeing that majestic ship come together and knowing that I made that happen created a love of this hobby and filled that void that other models were not able to do.
 
I know my story is in the minority of first time ship builders. I also know that models are put on hold for many reasons other than burnout. My dad's had to stop because he had me, was going to college, working 2 jobs and then my mom died. He has built models since but never had the time to complete his Constitution before the ship got ruined. A friend of mine from the Navy has a great model railroad layout that never got completed since he was constantly getting deployed and now is getting ready to retire and move so he has to disassemble it. Just recently my own build has stopped as I found out last week my dog of 11 years has cancer, no way to fix it and we had to put him down yesterday. My wife and I are still devastated over this loss.
 
I think it is wise of us as a community of experienced builders to encourage first timers to choose easier kits as it is a shame to see so many unfinished builds out there. However, I do not think we should discourage them if they choose to take on a harder one to start. Instead, be sure to constantly follow their builds and try to offer help and suggestions on how to get through those tough areas when they are reached. We do not always know what outside circumstances may cause a build to stop.

First two anchors are in place. Rotating the ship around to install the others next. 

So I have found these pictures of the various cabin layouts on SR. I am hoping that someone may know where a clearer scan of these plans may be at as the writing is blurred to where I cannot read what it is saying. I am going to post this in a couple of places and hopefully someone will be able to help. This isn't something that is critical to construction but is more for knowledge. Thanks!

Great videos and good advice. I will give the dry bending a try on my next build. I'm always up for learning new techniques and anything that helps to speed up the process of planking while still providing a nice finish I am all for trying.

Thank you all very much!
 
I am using Chuck's rope rocket from Syren and his recipe for a polyester rope made of Gutterman Mara thread. I have attached the pdf from his log to share. I bought the thread from Wawak.com. I did have to change the color for the lighter rope as I could not find the one he recommended of 2899, so I went with 696 which I can post a picture of later. The dark brown in the pics above is the same 868 in Chuck's recipe.
 
It really is an easy skill to learn. Watch Chuck's youtube videos about it. It really is that simple. The hardest parts are determining the amount of twists applied and that is only learned through doing. I over-twisted both ropes initially, indicated by the ropes wanting to curl up on themselves. This was easy to undo by simply pinching the rope between my fingers and running them down the length of it allowing it to unwind until it laid naturally. Honestly, I struggle the most with tying the individual strands to the eyebolts as the lighting in my basement where I have the most room is horrible right now. The entire process takes me about 15 minutes to lay up the ropes and that is with a lot of start/stop time double checking things and just being slow as I learn. Then there is another 4-5 minutes of bake time to set the rope at the end after it has been cut free of the ropewalk. 
 
I have only made the two ropes so far though I will be making more likely this upcoming weekend as I need to get some in the running rigging color for the gun tackle. I am curious to see how the larger ropes lay up. These were only 3 and 4 strand ropes with 1 thread per strand. The larger ropes use multiple threads per strand and require a little more work on the initial twisting but I do not think it will be much harder of a process just more time consuming set up.
 
I will be glad to keep sharing what I have learned, and highly encourage you all to try it. While rigging is far from simple, making the ropes themselves actually is. 
Chuck Passaro Rope Recipe.pdf

I will be tying ratlines in the next few days on my main mast shrouds. I will be giving this a try for sure as it has been already stated, anything to make them easier is a gift. Thanks for sharing!!!

More cabin progress has been made. Wall paneling is well underway and the LED's for two of the lamps have been installed. I finished designing the floor pattern and have begun building it. Very time consuming, but fun! A different sort of challenge than those normally faced with model ships.
 
I also took some time and milled down a pile of lumber for the outer planking. When I finish the cabin flooring I will switch back to planking to put the finish planks on.
 
To help with all of this, I got a new band saw for Christmas. Been needing one for a long time so when my tool store announced a sale, I quickly hopped in the truck and drove down to get one.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome to MSW Keith! Good to have you with us. I know you are looking at keeping both sand dust and costs down so you can always hand sand things. Working with wood will mean that you will have sanding and sawdust unfortunately. I would recommend getting a small vacuum to help keep the dust under control. If you get one with a long enough hose you can always rig it, (use tape to hold it to the table) so that it acts as a dust collector when sanding.
 
If you think this may be something you really want to get into, I would recommend spending the money on a Dremmel. No need to buy the expensive sets with hundreds of bits, just get the basic drill with a couple of sanding drums to start off.
 
If money is tight even for that, there is nothing wrong with hand sanding. The paper is cheap and you can easily make sanding blocks out of scrap wood or buy cheap ones if you prefer that. Honestly, even with al the power tools I have, the majority of my sanding on a model ship is still done by hand either with a block or free form.
 
Both of the models you are looking at are great starters. There are many logs for both and they will give you a good fundamental of the basics.
 
Good luck to you on your maiden voyage into this great hobby! I look forward to seeing what you decide to start with and sharing this adventure with you!

Welcome to MSW Keith! Good to have you with us. I know you are looking at keeping both sand dust and costs down so you can always hand sand things. Working with wood will mean that you will have sanding and sawdust unfortunately. I would recommend getting a small vacuum to help keep the dust under control. If you get one with a long enough hose you can always rig it, (use tape to hold it to the table) so that it acts as a dust collector when sanding.
 
If you think this may be something you really want to get into, I would recommend spending the money on a Dremmel. No need to buy the expensive sets with hundreds of bits, just get the basic drill with a couple of sanding drums to start off.
 
If money is tight even for that, there is nothing wrong with hand sanding. The paper is cheap and you can easily make sanding blocks out of scrap wood or buy cheap ones if you prefer that. Honestly, even with al the power tools I have, the majority of my sanding on a model ship is still done by hand either with a block or free form.
 
Both of the models you are looking at are great starters. There are many logs for both and they will give you a good fundamental of the basics.
 
Good luck to you on your maiden voyage into this great hobby! I look forward to seeing what you decide to start with and sharing this adventure with you!

Finally getting back into the shipyard. Should be much more regular with updates again and I am ready to build! 
 
While I have been busy over the past few months, I have managed to get in small bits of build time and have been particularly active this week resulting in all three lower masts and tops built. Neither masts nor tops are glued yet, just rough fitted. I will build all the masts, caps, crosstrees, etc. then switch to rigging. After all this time it will be nice to start going vertical. 

Lower foremast shrouds are in place. Ratlines are up next. 
 

All three masts are topped out and Royal Louis has reached her full size at 33 inches tall and 43 inches long. This is another massive model. 
 
I will be working on attaching more blocks to the masts, tops, and crosstrees then will begin installing stays and shrouds. 
 

Lower foremast shrouds are in place. Ratlines are up next. 
 

All three masts are topped out and Royal Louis has reached her full size at 33 inches tall and 43 inches long. This is another massive model. 
 
I will be working on attaching more blocks to the masts, tops, and crosstrees then will begin installing stays and shrouds.