leginseel

Hi Nigel, good to see you back in the shipyard. Those cannons look first rate...good work as usual
Cheers...........Fernando

It seems like ages since I last posted but I've been otherwise employed as my wife has had a back operation so whilst I've been working on the Bounty it's been some small jobs.  As I've said in a previous post I wasn't impressed by the chain links in the kit so I've fashioned some myself

They need tidying up but they look a little more realistic than the kit supplied brass strips.
The next job was the cannons.  The kit shows just a simple rope draped over the pomiglion which looked awful, so I decided to a little research.  As there is no pomiglion ring I found some pictures with a rope fashioned to fit around the button as follows.

I started by seizing a small rope and then splicing it onto the main rope.  The third photo shows the top one with both sides of the 'ring' seized.  This produced a fitting which was much too stiff so I only seized one side of the others and coloured the non seized rope black.  Then I looked at the tackle which is not mentioned at all in the kit.  Looking at the posts of others I needed double and single blocks to create the 8 sets for the four cannon.  I realized that I would have to make these as there was insufficient in the kit.  So I ventured into the world of block making.

After some sore fingers, lost parts and much swearing I managed it.  I have to take my hat off to all the scratch builders out there as making 100's of these must be a nightmare!!  I then rigged the blocks and the cannon.

On reflection it would have been better to not have waxed the pomiglion ropes as they don't sag in this forward position, but that's another lesson I've learnt for future builds.
My wife is now getting over her operation and mobile so I hope to have a little more time in the shipyard.
Thank you all for your comments and likes on my previous postings, it's much appreciated.
 

Thank you Zappto, yes, I've glued the cannon to the decks and I'm now in the process of sorting the rope coils out and then I'll start on the port side.

Just caught up with your log Nigel.  You're doing a lovely job.
 
All the best
Bob (rmc)

Good grief Nigel - go for your life. That's what this log business is all about.  I've borrowed (ie: stolen) ideas from all over the place. 
 
I must pass on to my family that I am to be  emulated (well deserved of course).  They'll get a good laugh.

It seems like ages since I last posted but I've been otherwise employed as my wife has had a back operation so whilst I've been working on the Bounty it's been some small jobs.  As I've said in a previous post I wasn't impressed by the chain links in the kit so I've fashioned some myself

They need tidying up but they look a little more realistic than the kit supplied brass strips.
The next job was the cannons.  The kit shows just a simple rope draped over the pomiglion which looked awful, so I decided to a little research.  As there is no pomiglion ring I found some pictures with a rope fashioned to fit around the button as follows.

I started by seizing a small rope and then splicing it onto the main rope.  The third photo shows the top one with both sides of the 'ring' seized.  This produced a fitting which was much too stiff so I only seized one side of the others and coloured the non seized rope black.  Then I looked at the tackle which is not mentioned at all in the kit.  Looking at the posts of others I needed double and single blocks to create the 8 sets for the four cannon.  I realized that I would have to make these as there was insufficient in the kit.  So I ventured into the world of block making.

After some sore fingers, lost parts and much swearing I managed it.  I have to take my hat off to all the scratch builders out there as making 100's of these must be a nightmare!!  I then rigged the blocks and the cannon.

On reflection it would have been better to not have waxed the pomiglion ropes as they don't sag in this forward position, but that's another lesson I've learnt for future builds.
My wife is now getting over her operation and mobile so I hope to have a little more time in the shipyard.
Thank you all for your comments and likes on my previous postings, it's much appreciated.
 

Thanks for the kind notes Martin, Nigel and Jim - much appreciated.
 
There are still a few things to do on Vanguard. The anchors are a work-in-progress. I found what I understand to be the correct knot for the anchor cable and in most of the photos of anchors I have come across seem to have the anchor ring (?) served in a manner shown on the photo below. So I decided to give it a try with the following results.
 

 

I have since touched up the copper wire showing here - though the close-up exaggerates all  its faults.   I have now done the remaining two which have turned out a little more neatly than the first.

 

 
 
 
 

Looking at Bertu's decking. The treenails really make the deck come alive so I think I will look at doing my Victory. Presume you used a pencil.
I will run mine across the deck to see what it looks like

Hi Robert, I personally thought that the comments re joggling were a bit harsh.  Model building is a hobby for enjoyment and such suggestions could be said a little more sympathetically as we are not all perfect.
 

Really sorry about this didn't explain myself properly (or carefully)
 
One thing that winds me up is when people make superb jobs of their build and get basic things wrong. In this case I was WRONG!!
 
Its often difficult to explain what you mean
 
I build a Panart 1:78 Victory about 40 years and a  San Felipe about 20 years ago (have enclosed some pictures) and was very impressed by the quality of the wood - in particular the solid wood fittings like the gun carriages. So did not paint either model

As you may know the fittings like the gun carriages are walnut ply on the Caldercraft so I decided to paint the model. Quite frankly its the worse thing I ever did as much of the detail is now hidden. (it also hides up a few errors which I am not happy with)
 
I have joggled my deck but not as well as Bertu's and have been advised by Caldercraft against treenails as the model is not big enough. (if you look at the actual Picture of the Victory the treenail are hardly visible as the are the same wood as the decking
 
Strictly speaking the treenails should run across the planking at every deck beam but that's a bit of over kill

Sorry for the misunderstanding But I did congratulate Bertu on his incredible work

Seriously thinking of starting the San Felipe as I am not happy with my Victory (Certainly need to clean it up a bit as Ive not worked on it in a year!!)
 
Obviously Victory is no where near as far built as my SFelipe

Hi Robert, I personally thought that the comments re joggling were a bit harsh.  Model building is a hobby for enjoyment and such suggestions could be said a little more sympathetically as we are not all perfect.
 

Hi Bob,
 
I have to say what a superb job you have made of your Vanguard . . . and I'm looking forward to your Granado build. 
 
Although I haven't commented on your log before now, I've been lurking around your 30 pages of progress over the last few months and have been referring to lots of your excellent pictures more than a few times. I'm at the rigging stage of my build and I've found your build log invaluable to me.
 
. . . and there's something else that I've read in your log that I've found helpful - - - I think that on a few occasions you've commented on your close-up photographs - well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds them (that's MY close-ups I'm talking about) very discouraging. What I see in my own build 'with my eyes'  isn't what I see when I look at these brutal close-ups!
 

Richardjjs
Thank you for your comments and thank you for your information, but to be honest I cannot understand what you mean when you are referring to the deck planking and say ‘BUT it should be joggled 4 apart NOT 2’.  The planks on my model are laid in a four butt system, the end edge of each neighbouring plank is offset by 1/5 of twice the length of the planks. Four planks separate the plank ends where they meet edge to edge.  Isn't that what you mean by ' 4 not 2'. Am I missing something?
 
Also you stated ‘Again if you are going to mark the tree nails at least make sure each plank end is accompanied with the corresponding  treenails next to each other’.  What is the difference from what I did on my model to what you are saying?  Again, am I missing something?
 
Richardjjs, I would appreciate if you clarify this for me, or maybe another member of the forum who has more knowledge and know how than me on this subject enlighten me if the four butt system is the correct one for the HMS Victory, and if so,  are my deck planks laid in the correct way?
 
This is an image of the HMS Victory deck planking.  On my model I only marked the treenails on the edge of each plank as I thought that if I mark the once in between as well it was going to be too much.

Rich (Archicar), I hope you don’t mind, I borrowed this image from your great set of photos you took and placed in your log. If you do mind I will remove it.   They are great pictures and found them very helpful. Thanks.
 
Robert

p

Hi Jeff, as a first time builder the best tool I've invested in is a Dremel with various bits and pieces together with a drill stand so I can drill accurate vertical holes.
 
 

Here are the flags supplied by Chris Watton with the kit. I have cut out the mercantile flag to see how it looks.  I presume the white ensign is the correct flag to use.
 
Mort; I have looked at the Model Boats' flags and they are, I think, superior to these.  If I end up putting a flag on the model, I'll go with them. There are two considerations regarding my flag dilemma: first, the real difficulty in mounting it; and second, that the flags I have seen on many models make them look rather toy-like.

This is an experiment to see if I can get the flag to hang naturally - this could certainly be better.

 

 
On another topic: looking at another project -  Amati's Victory Model bomb vessel 'Granado' appeals.  Has anyone some feedback/comments on this?
 
 

Tom ~ that does sound a bit normal for me . . . it's just that I don't always admit to it!
Bill, if you're thinking about building a 2 decker this is a good model to choose. It's a bit more involving than a frigate but a bit less than something like a 74 gun ship. The plans and drawings contained in 'The Fifty Gun Ship' (by Rif Winfield) are adequate for a P.o.B. model, although, as I've already said in previous posts, the rigging drawings are a little sparse but I'm able to find most of the info that I need here on the forum or in Petersson's book.
Frankie, I'm really pleased to read that. I have to say that I've never picked up on that anomaly in any other forum posts I've followed, nor have I noticed it on any of the few models I've actually seen "in the flesh".  - - - So, it's not just ME!
I'll also have to move the lift blocks a little further forward on the main cap for the same reason, but I might be able to save the foremast as I haven't yet milled the slots in that top yet, so I can modify the positions of these slots now that I'm aware of the pitfall.
 
Oh . . . and I've done another 4 ratlines tonight! (until my eyes started to go and my fingers started to cramp up.)

Thanks for the comment, Popeye, and to the others for the likes.
 
It has been a week or so of forward steps, backward steps and discoveries.
 
First, since I fitted the fore stay and preventer I've been unhappy with the size of the mouses on these stays. (It doesn't feel right to say 'mouses' instead of 'mice'!)
It just annoyed me immensely every time I looked at them >>>

So  ~ a sharp pair of scissors, and . . . . .

New stays with smaller mouses . . . even if they aren't perfect they're a bit more in scale and less annoying.
and 're-snaked' >>>

Several months ago I made what is so far the only yard -- the mizzen crossjack >>>

I wanted to get it on the mast and that is when I made a discovery. When rigging the lifts it became obvious that after the topmast shrouds will be fitted, the lift lines will foul the foremost of these shrouds and will have to "bend around" the shrouds instead of having a 'straight run'. This is because the slot in the mizzen top that accommodates the foremost topmast lower deadeye is slightly further forward than the position of the upper crossjack lift block. As the entire assembly is now firmly and permanently glued and rigged I had no intention of carrying out a major demolition job on the mizzen top in order to correct this problem, so I have moved the position of the upper lift blocks from the middle of the masthead cap to the front of the cap. I know this isn't strictly correct, but in the circumstances it was the best solution that I could come up with.
 

Another discovery ~ although not entirely unexpected -- was that the crossjack braces have a tendency to pull the aftmost of the main shrouds out of line, even with just the small clamps that are weighing down the end of the brace lines. The 'out-of-line' shrouds can be seen in the above as well as the following photo >>>

None of the lines attached to the crossjack have been made off yet.  The bitter ends of the braces, the lifts, the sling and the truss pendant are all just being held by these clamps/pegs. Because of the deflection in the aftmost main shrouds I want to get the ratlines and futtock staves fitted to the main shrouds before I tension the crossjack braces. So, I have made the heroic jump into the world of never-ending ratline tying! >>>


I will soon be off to bed now, dreaming of ratlines and clove hitches . . . . ZZzzz . . .
 
 

Hi Tom,
" There is no such thing as cheating.  I like to think of it as using the available resources to fit your needs and accomplish the goal." ~ I don't really have a guilt complex about the bought items!  - - - it's just my way of saying these items weren't scratch made!
 
Jason,
The anchor is a Caldercraft item.  I don't know if you can source Caldercraft products in the U.S.? 
Here's the one from my previous post >>>

I bought 4 anchors at the same time. Two at that size, and two smaller ones.  The smaller ones appeared like this on the website >>>

BUT ~  when they arrived they looked like this >>>

The website photo had shown the anchor with flukes, but what I received had no flukes -  and neither were there any flukes in the pack that could be fitted.  I'll have to make and fit the flukes for these smaller anchors.  I DID email the supplier and pointed this out to them and they replied that is how they receive them from Caldercraft.  I see that the photo on their website has now been changed to equate to what is actually in the packet.  (The larger anchors were exactly as shown on their website.)
[Can't help thinking that would be something like buying a model ship kit and finding that you have to make something major like your own bulkheads ! ]
 
Since I'm here, here's a quick update.
Forestay, preventer and snaking now done >>>

Shroud lanyards still to be tensioned and trimmed.
This is a general view of the ship as she is at present >>>


Oh ~ and I'm well familiar with St Stephen's Street!
 

Hmm it didn't seem to remove that last pic when I edited the post.
 
Oh well!
 
Forgot to ask you guy's opinion about hull planking.
 
I noticed that the supplied wood is about double the width of the actual hull planks shown in the book. My question is, should I use the supplied wood, or get new hull planks that more accuratly replicate the plank size?  I know it would be more work, but what would look better for the end result? It's not a matter of time, I just want it to look nice.
 
Especially since I am using deck planks that much more closely match the actual width, would it look strange to use wider planks on the hull with the thinner deck planks? I do not intend on painting the hull since I really like the natural wood look.  If I do decide to get new hull strips, what type of wood would work well?
 
Thanks a LOT for the help!
 
Jeff

Thats a good idea! I tried that out on some scrap wood with very nice results.  I will use that technique!  
 
I haven't put the tree nails in yet, but I have been making slow progress on the deck
I've been leaning along the way how to make it flat since the strips are 1.5mm thick.  I really like working with this wood! It's a lot nicer than the kit supplied wood.  It's not sanded yet so it does look a little rough.
 
Since I am getting closer to the edges of the ship, I am starting to think about making the frames that I removed.  I have the correct shapes, thanks to the book and the ply sheet that I saved that held the pre-cut frames.  The frames need to go from the middle deck to the quarterdeck.  I need to make these very precise so the hull planking will be correct.  I need some help with that because I am not sure of the best way to make it, nor what wood I should use for it.  I'm thinking ply would be fine since it won't be seen.  I don't have any power tools to help create them.  This is all the tools I have right now:

I might (?) need some other tools to help make those frames but not sure what would be best.  Also, I think I will need some tools to help make the athwarthship carlings, knees, shaped half beams, etc. Any advice would be great as to what tools really help make these custom pieces that I will add to the upper deck.  Like I said before, I'm not going to plank the upper deck so you can see into the middle deck.
 
I'm thinking of using swiss pearl for the beams, carlings, knees, etc.  I've seen that wood used on other projects here and it looks like it might contrast well with the costello boxwood I am using for the deck planks.
 
Jeff
 

Dan, thanks for the insight onto the curvature of the gratings. I will take that into consideration on the upper deck and above. 
 
I finally have a little to show. I got the new deck plank strips and I am VERY happy with the quality of the wood! I just hope I can do it justice with my deck planking.
 
Here is where I am so far. The width of the planks is about half of that of the kit supplied plank strips.  This is much more inline with the correct width of the planks according to the book.  They are still about 0.5mm too wide, but I don't think many people would notice at this scale.... I hope hahaha!

It sure takes a long while, but I hope the results are better.
 
I haven't been able to work on the ship as much as I would like.  Life with a 2.5 year old is never dull.  We just enrolled him in hia first soccor camp.  He just ran around the indoor facility for most of the 50 minutes, occasionally kicking the ball. Haha! I think the next session this Saturday, he will understand more of what he is suppose to do.
 
Anyway, I am going to continue hacking away at this deck. I usually can get 1 row done per day, but sometimes I'm too tired from chasing my son around to work on it, but I'm not in any rush.
 
Thanks!
Jeff

Shipyard Update:
Shroud Ratlings:
Time has come to delve into the Ratlings.
I have read a lot of members posts to gain as much information and instructions of how to do the Ratlings.
Many great systems have been described, shared.
Many thanks to all for those posts, it has made my life ahead much easier.
 
Ratlings:
I made a Jig to pre-loop one end of each ratline for a mast.
2 pcs of 19mm pine with small brad nails set at 6mm apart(on the vertical right side).
The head of each nail cut and filed.

 
Next stage was to wind the ratline rope(at my model scale = 0.2mm) from side to side.
Then on the inner side of each nail, 2 x half hitches were tied, then onto the next and next till the end nail.

Same for other side. 

Then the twine between each ratline/mail was removed, carefully. Both sides.


Last stage was to cut one side of the loop on the nail. All one side on 1 set of mails, then the opposite on the other set of nails.
Hope that makes sense. 
Basically you want to end up with 2 sets of Ratlines(with a loop one end) like below.
1 set each for the Starboard and Port Shrouds of a Mast.

You only need to make the set you need for the number of Ratlines for a Shroud Set, and the length is the tricky one to work out.
I'll leave that for you to ponder on.
I ran a test one for the longest to work out the length.
 
Next >> fitting them.
 

Shipyard Update:
Ratlings:
 
Nothing new here for those who have done ratlines.
Below applies to the Fore and Mizzen mast shrouds.
 
Main Shroud Ratlines:
I used a sheet of plain white A4 paper to mark out lines for the shroud locations(they are behind the shrouds), with the fore edge vertical to the waterline.
The ratlines will be tied to the shrouds, level with the waterline.
The horizontal lines are 6mm apart(equates to near enough to 15" rungs) are:
- Blue every 6th -> tie these first.
- Red min-way between the blue lines -> tie these second.
- Pencil, 2 between the reds and blues -> tie these third.
I used lengths of left over planking behind and in front(can slide up/down) of the shrouds to hold them firmly near the ratline being added.
I used the Stave, as the start and a 6mm drop to the first ratline. 

 
The first Ratline added just above the dead eyes to hold them in line.
I used the 1st one from the Jig.
Loops both ends.

 
The next Ratline 6th one up, so I use the 6th Ratline from the same side of the Jig.

And so it has started, Ratline and more Ratline to go > how many hours ahead. !
 
 
 

Sorry about that I clicked the wrong button too soon.
 So this how the last posting goes: First picture is showing where to trim sail, second picture is showing the tape I used for the hems, third picture is showing after being trimmed and the forth is showing the wire that was inserted into the outside edges.
Ok, now that I got my mind together:
 
Sail hemmed with the iron on tape

 
Marking holes to sew on bolt rope

 
Kringles made from serving some wire then shaping on a dowel

Completed sail, still needs the little ropes at the top ironed, what is the name for these ropes?


 
And up next is to make a couple parrels

Have a Good Day everyone and Thanks for all the likes and comments