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rwiederrich

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Everything posted by rwiederrich

  1. rwiederrich
    Rich...I believe we are on the same page. Each image showing her low in the water exacerbates a low fast, sleek, sharp entry.....however...images showing her high or nearly out of the water, exacerbates a tall(war ship like), boxy posture. This, I believe is the crux of the observational perceptions we have been struggling through. If you were to include the prow of her hood and curvey figurehead into the entirety of her silhouette...they become lost(such as in the full boxy views of her) .....where as, if you exclude the entirety of her boxy hull from her sleek, fast sharp entry.....it becomes a conclusion in of itself. Perception, perception, perception....is EVERYTHING. Here is an image of my 1/8" redraw just showing her prow at the waterline. Rob
  2. rwiederrich
    One item we can't overlook...and it appears we have. Is perception. All the images you provided only permit perception to be made from a limited aspect of the hulls entirety. This can give the false perspective that the rake of the bow is swifter then she may otherwise be. but if you place the entire hull, above and below the waterline, to include the entire length of the hull. Just a snippet of the bow cannot place it into the entire perspective. The example I created was taken from the corrections I made on the 1/8" drawing. I corrected the 7degree incline of the stem and I induced greater forward ark above the cutwater of the stem...lengthening the naval hood and *beak*. Taking just a small piece of the picture, doesn't place it correctly within the entirety of the hull....which can cause us to see it in a different light...and even make it appear larger or smaller dependent on our perspective. I cut out a waterline portion of my 1/8" redraw to demonstrate how singling out just a small portion of the hull can overaccentuate it dimensions. The beached image that Mike gave us demonstrates how powerful perception is and it makes the bow look nearly flat/vertical at the stem, which caused us to think the image was somehow distorted...because the other images at San Pedro make it look far more raked or sweeping. Something to think about. Rob
  3. rwiederrich
    I redrew the small scale plans and made the corrections to her bow and stem and cut out a template that will be used to begin the cut out on a block of soft wood. I will also cut out templates in card stock to make sectional hull templates that I can place along the hull to use as I carve the hull. I'll mimic my small scale brothers and glue the top view onto a piece of wood and then glue the profile on the side and then begin the carving. Kinda like carving in 3D. Top....side....and profile. I hope to have something begun before the weekend. Rob
  4. rwiederrich
    Further study reveals that the root of both the bowsprit and the jibboom were squared off as they entered the hull. the clear images of her bow and figurehead reveals this. I'm sure some *spring* was evident in both bowsprit and jibboom. Masts could become *sprung* when they became loose in the seats...caused by excessive force applied by extreme weather. Rob
  5. rwiederrich
    And that is the hood on its upper edge..under the bowsprit? Interesting...and images show her bowsprit at a slightly greater angle from that of the hood. Rob
  6. rwiederrich
    That would probably not be a bad idea. The process of elimination...no matter how minor can yield valuable information. Rob
  7. rwiederrich
    Oh Rich, in that silhouette of Glory....it appears odd....Why is her forward left leg missing and appearing absent and why is there light coming in from behind her back? I've actually never seen this image before. Another note....the steeve can be determined from the angle of the bowsprit and either the waterline or the keel. Now if the waterline...one has to hopefully assume the hull is trim. However, that method can be wrought with error. I would tend to use the solid keel line for sucha measurement. When I made my measurements...it was based upon the assumption that the amidships waterline was true parallel to the keel. But distortions induced by the vanishing point made the attempt more an endeavor of hope then sound mathematics. The truth is somewhere in the middle. I was under the impression her entire back and toga were affixed to the hood? Rob
  8. rwiederrich
    Oh, I assumed as much. I only posted not to be critical, but to show exactly what you just pointed out. Many measurements we do know can aid us in figuring out the measurements we don’t know. This entire exercise has been just that. I’m hoping our Australian friend can incorporate some of what we discovered into more accurate drawings. Or possibly we will . I think if we couple Mikes overall body plan ,with our corrected bow details, we might have an extremely close representation. The best one could hope for.
  9. rwiederrich
    Wonderful images...I took the liberty to make an observation of the figureheads curved dimensions.....and how she's a bit under sized. Great drawing by the way. Rob
  10. rwiederrich
    I agree. A computer aided design of her would yield useful info. I had the idea of building a small model of her and comparing it to actual photos of her from similar angles as you suggested. I have a pretty good eye...so I always use imagery of her when measurements are not available. It all is close estimations anyway....until someone unearths her actual drawing made by McKay himself from some lost attic or cellar. Rob
  11. rwiederrich
    You can easily see the add on additional 2 backstays. Wonderful clear example. Thanks Rich and Mike
  12. rwiederrich
    Several things Rich, You can’t use any of the buildings as references for plumb. Because in both images you cannot be sure of the hulls trim, nor it’s relationship to the buildings or pier. Next , I established the amidship waterline by extending the copper water line forward. It will not be parallel to the keel line because of vanishing horizon line. When viewing any object from any vantage point it always has a distant vanishing point. The visual deception is made when the curve of the ships hull bends the copper waterline in to the curve or round bow. But if you were viewing the hull at a waterline profile the waterline and keel lines would be parallel . By doing this math, I created an internal horizontal plane to establish the inclination of the bowsprit . If you look at the image you will see that the hull grows smaller as it travels down the ways to the stern. Every line you draw down the hull, though they maybe parallel , they always appear getting closer as they reach the stern. This is the horizontal vanishing point. See how I figured it out?
  13. rwiederrich
    I forgot to post an image of this wonderful book I have...about figureheads. You might want to get a copy for your own library. Rob
  14. rwiederrich
    One last note of importance....I was able to determine from the amidships waterline that the bowsprit's angle is 23 degrees. Nearly the 22.5 degrees what Mike claims. We can't be that far off...really! Rob
  15. rwiederrich
    Interesting...what are you using for your vertical plumb to establish the 20 degrees? You could be using the buildings..but that doesn't guarantee the ship is trim in the water. I'm revisiting my original drawings and measurements and I'm finding that through refinements I have come to the determination that her stem is not my original estimation of 7 degrees but 8.5 degrees. I redrew with better accuracy the keel horizontal...which will induce error in all other measurements. They too have been corrected now with the new data. I've determined that her inner bobstay plate is the same distance from the original copper line as is the length of her figurehead....90". Depending on what image you are looking at, her naval hood is roughly twice the length of her figurehead....180". It appears her copper line had been raised 45" by the time her picture was taken when she was fitting out in 1911 for her Alaska sailing. This is noted by the over coppering of her outer bobstay plate, which is not how she was originally coppered. I'm having so much fun researching all the changes to the Glory..when they were instituted and the like. It wasn't till Mike came over that I even learned that Glory had a mod that added 2 backstays to her fore and main masts...that didn't go through the existing channels, but were simply bolted to her side like a British clipper....Fun info. Here is a new image with some new lines on it. Keep up the good work.
  16. rwiederrich
    I have friends who build in this scale...it actually makes for very fine models. I was planning on using my vacuum former to make copies from a *Master* model. In this way I can make several hulls exactly the same and then work the deck as need be. the models would be small enough to occupy the same base...but show the distinct differences as she evolved. The entire project would be in of itself one single display by itself. I utilized this method when I was commissioned to build a model of the steam skiff *Puffin* for the Seattle Wooden Boats Maritime Museum. I calculated around 6".....maybe it is 1/600. 1" = 50' 5.3" I'm a simple man.... Rob
  17. rwiederrich
    Yes...that is a famous painting. I've read that since the Confederates traded with England....they would capture clippers even in their ports and destroy them. Not to mention any that tried to make it past their blockade to the south around the horn. It is a true sadness that the war decimated, not only the clippers but our dominance in world trade.
  18. rwiederrich
    Yes...and we can thank the American Civil war for that as well. Hundreds of clippers were taken or burned as victims of war by the South. Mike tells me that he is getting a grip on his collection and that he will, in some time, be able to track down some more images. He thinks we are coming along nicely and that the corrections I've made make sense and are bringing us closer to Glory's true design. I hope to make several small models(Possibly 1:700) of her as she was originally built and as her final configuration....to provide a true comparison of her evolution. Rob
  19. rwiederrich
    This figurehead is from the clipper America. She was totally white and is now at a resort called Rosario in the PNW. Beautiful
  20. rwiederrich
    That deck house measurement wasn't for clippers...just an example of how designers used symmetry in constructing their vessels. I was referencing the WIDTH of the cabin not length. It was easy to use body parts as measuring tools....and ship parts were utilized in the same way. Pretty cool huh? Rob
  21. rwiederrich
    Interesting note to ponder. It was not uncommon for captains to paint the figurehead prior to entering port. This detail was left up to the privy of the captain. I tend to think....from painting evidence and those of first hand recollections, that she was originally all white....similarly like the Cutty Sark. She too was repainted when she fell to Portuguese ownership as the Ferreira....dark hair and a blue dress. This might be taken into account... the dark hair and gold trim of her flowing gowns fringe. Regardless....white paint would have been easiest......though I think I recall reading somewhere, her being repainted with bright red lips and cheeks once. Rob
  22. rwiederrich
    My calculations place it roughly at 24' as well. 3' before the first band and 3' past the 7th band. 8, 3' spaces equal 24" Rob
  23. rwiederrich
    Rich... that is actually 9' from the inner bobstay eyelet, 12' from the outer. Those eyelets were probably bolted through the iron bands for strength. Rob
  24. rwiederrich
    Good information. That 3' band distance is good to know when calculating head gear and hood dimensions. I emailed Mike about what I've been up to and hope he jumps in here to see. I didn't post any of my images directly to him via email. He and Arina check these pages often I think. I can't post too many images from work to his email. Thanks for all your work and communications with Mike...it helps a lot. Rob
  25. rwiederrich
    Beautiful Michael.....can't wait to see what you do with her. Rob

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