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rwiederrich
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Everything posted by rwiederrich
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Well see Michael...you have already accomplished the purist form of violation according to some. You had already sawn a piece off. In someone's eyes, the most heinous crime against an artifact that one could imagine. I on the other hand hold to no such unrealistic standard. The piece is what it is and without factual verifiable means to identify it as described.(It's possible you have some evidence), you are left with your own interpretation of display of the artifact. Personally, I'm jealous you even have it...knowing that the master shipbuilder had imagined that timber to be what it has become. A living piece of one of his creations. And now...Apart from all imaginations and emotion associated with such a relic, it sits in your possession......waiting for whatever fait you deem appropriate. I have rambled on long enough....now back to our previously scheduled programing. Rob
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Well since the piece has already been sawed along it’s width , making it into 2 objects of appreciation could not diminish its significance in any way. Plus cutting along her inserted treenails axis would provide a clear view of the intricate process of the tree nail and diminish the artifact to a more manageable size. Plus you’ll have 2 of them. However, if sensibilities are to be served, then keep it as is and just provide larger accommodations, and disregard any further lunacies coming from my mouth. Rob
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I’m so glad you enjoy it. I knew you’d love the history of the library first addition. Notice the front leaf page sticker identifying the author. My other copies do not have this sticker. Unique . Rob
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Wish I had a better image....I was taking a photography class in school at the time so this is the best I could come up at 16 Rob
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Wonderful job Nic...lovely. Did you order the case of built it yourself? Glass or plexi? Rob
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43 years ago I built a scratch build of the Cutty Sark and I used coffee stir stick exclusively for not only planking and decking but the houses. Here is a old picture or two of the model as I was building it. I was 16 at the time. You gotta look through the Revell models of the Alabama and the Spanish Galleon to see the wooden Cutty Sark. Rob
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A little bit of white paint and a nice green cushion cover and you lightened her up considerably. Nice job. Rob
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Michael...you had better hold tight to that artifact of Lightning....I might just slip in one night and relieve you of it.....of course while I'm sleep walking..... of course. Since I won't be responsible for my actions.......HeeHeeHee I wonder if you could possibly double your value, by using your band saw and cutting it in half down through the treenail....making two manageable displayable parts? Possibly with a nice weathered brass placard describing the artifact? You really wouldn't be destroying it...but rather proclaiming it.......twice! I appreciate your viewing of the thread....it gladdens my heart to know an artist of your caliber finds interest in these pages. Rob(Humble purveyor of Glory history and artifacts)
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From those extremely clear images of Glory's figurehead and hood...I see now that her bowsprit is not parallel to the hood at all. The root of the sprit sits down deep and the hood is much fuller then in both of our drawings. You can clearly see she is protruding beyond the hood...probably just below her shoulder blades. I knew my representation of those elements were not as accurate as I had pleased...but as all things...they too will be refined. From my drawings imposed on Dan's originals...you can clearly see the rake of her photographed prow, that you have been attempting to point out. One thing I did notice is that from all the images you posted of her on the ways...by looking at the close up of her figurehead it dawned on me that the hood was being masked by the angle of the photograph. It too takes on the impression that it is shorter then it actually is...so all the computations we have been applying to other elements, must surely apply to it. Just a thought. Still....we are far closer to her actuality then when we first began with what we had to start with....I'm sure. It's fascinating to me to wonder that all of the years (65 or more) that Michael has dedicated to this study, coupled with the efforts we two and others(from Australia) have contributed....have brought us here to this place were we are on the cusp of reimagining Glory of the Seas true dimensions and beauty. How wonderful it is. Rob
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Look at the growth rings in that sample. That was an old tree when that log was cut for that timber. Love it Michael. Rob
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Arina...you're doing a wonderful job. Should we begin now by using the new email address to communicate with Mike? Since I'm assuming all that communication will be Glory or nautical centered? Rob
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This pic is of the redrawn bow from the 1/8" drawing from Ron I have corrected some issues with the stem leading to the figurehead and the naval hood. Also raked back the overly vertical cutwater from the curve of the stem to the keel foot. Included are the original and my mods. Rob
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The hood is still too long...her head, neck and partial shoulders should extend past the tip of the hood. Making her the most forward structure to the prow. The hood appears to be flat on its top...just under the flat surface of the bowsprit. Rob
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Oh....I already did on my new drawing I'll post this afternoon. You gave that post it to me several years ago I believe. Rob
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I might note that your original drawing of the figurehead, was pretty close to what I gathered...though with a slightly elongated hood and stem Photographic Images show the top of the hood is fairly flat under the bowsprit . Rob
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I've done that already. Ron's depiction shows the waterline 3ft higher then the 22' recorded and his curve of the stem is all off because he does not take into consideration the Naval hood above the figurehead. So his stem curve become the top of the Hood. I've done some redraws over the 1/8" example Mike gave me and I left the original lines drawn by Ron so one can see the difference. I'll post this when I get home. Rob
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The key to a firm conclusion was to eliminate the usual incline of the ways...which I determined was roughly 3deg established from plumb derived from her port anchor shank and martingale. Establishing that, I could determine the horizontal..by which I was able to work out the true plumb/vertical of the hull. From there, easily determine that the inclination of the bow below the radios of the stem(57%) was -7deg. All of this combined with your own assessments and observations/impressions...places the truth of her bow within our grasp. This...being evidenced by Mike's own admission that he wants Ron to readdress his own drawings. Success favors the prepared mind...and we have several minds working in concert. I will again apply my measurements to a 1/8" enlargement of the bow Ron drew to see the corrections necessary. Rob
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I think that might be a great idea. I did ask Mike what images he was referencing that he said he gave Ron. Are they from his extensive collection, or are they some that we have been drawing? I hope the latter. Rob
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Robert....Mike is sending Ron images via snail-mail...and he informs me that he just sent some to him and he doesn't expect to hear from him for several weeks. He communicates via email and snail-mail. Mike is requesting that Ron revisit his drawings and use some of these new images to aid him. Rob
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This image shows the bow clearly and almost to the keel foot... Rob
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Dang Michael....you've spoiled us with your perfect example of woodworking.....and metal working. Rob
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Richard...remember the Donald McKay's lines are pretty close to Glory's...apart from the more vertical stem below the waterline. So close but not full enough.
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Just for giggles....here are some more images of her bow...photos and paintings Though in the painting, her cheek ornamentation (beneath/behind her figurehead) did not extend onto her hull.
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I wish to share an edited email I received from Michael. It sheds some light on our discussion. The main reason why I want to be patient. "We have to remember that both Patterson and Walters were both professionals but that they were not infallible (Other artists such as Charles Waldron, George Ekren---who commanded Glory in 1902, William Coulter, and several others also made paiintings of her. Whereas, the actual photos do not lie and the launching image which distinctly shows her stem as straight below the waterline can be discerned when you put a straight edge next to the photo image. That is one of the images Ron Haug worked from when he did his drawing and he has the skills developed from being a shipwright for all of his working life (he is 83 years old). I will be writing him a letter this coming week and I will send him copies of photos (I don;t recall what ones I sent to him ten years ago) and ask him to see whether he sees anything different than what he did. Please note that I have close to 80 drawings which Ron has done over the years and this includes his preparing drawings of many of McKay's clippers. He not only worked from builder's models but also worked from offsets preserved in U. S. Customs records held by National Archives. These offsets, derived from Custom House admeasurements are the actual dimensions derrived by government employes to establish gross and net tonnages by actually measuring the interior of a hull according to Custom House regulations. Unfortunately, the original admeasurement for Glory was burned in a filre at the Boston Custom House in the year 1893 so we have to 'guess' what she looked like other than photo analysis. My 'challenge' is indexing all of my existing photographs and catagorizing them by period. When you figure, I first started gathering information on Glory of the Seas back in the year 1957 and thereafter have accomulated photos of her besides getting copies of plans drawn by a number of people My goal is to incorporate this into a revised set of plans similar in format to those I drew in 1979" Rob
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