rwiederrich

Yes..that is a very famous image...kinda weird that her beginning image and her end are not that different in perspective. You can clearly see the fullness of her hull compared to more extreme versions of the clipper design.

Happy Thanksgiving Ed. Excellent progress.

A bit more history of the Glory of the Seas: She was built in 1869 and had a successful and varied career..which extended over 53 years..far beyond many of her contemporaries. She did not end up wrecked, or set afire by accident , or lost do to foundering. She lived to an old age and as many old sailing ships, was passed from one profit making toiling job to the next...and each less honorable and dignified then the previous. Nope...an old salty girl who ran her life's course to where she had no more profit to give. Once nearly saved from the wreckers hand by a preservation society that turned out to be nothing more then a sham. Parts of her found themselves in private collections...a ship model was even fashioned from her state room door. Her Figurehead was saved by a wealthy passerby and is now saved and on display in the India House club in NY. She was driven ashore on a marbley beach at Endolyne, South of Seattle...and in 1923 was burned for the metal in her hull. As of 4 years ago at low tide you could still see remains of her if you have a keen eye(I personally plan a trip there soon to attempt to recover a souvenir, if at all possible to be honorably displayed next to her model. I have found(in my collection) another quite rare image of her on that beach south of Seattle.....taken the day before she was burned...as you can see her beautiful figurehead has already been removed and saved for posterity. Rob.

OH my.......I checked the website you gave and it is unreadable for me........Your model is awesome. Rob

Outstanding Ed Skillfully executed. Rob

Foremast yards finished.

Thanks Ed for the polite redirection. It is my nature to question...I build and machine precision refractor telescopes so I tend to be overly observant and when I haven't gotten my head around something entirely......I can become a pest. I'll defer to your wise move to head-er back on course. Forgive my incessant.skylarking. Rob

Outstanding...Ed..No I never assumed you were not clear....on the contrary..you were. I had originally intended to show these images during the original conversation. I recently found them. I do have Crothers book..and that drawing was a perfect example of McKay's application. The deck plan gives it away as the Lightning...with the gang ways. Again..as was discussed...you were working out the exact(Or close to it) lateral cross members for YA...and without adequate drawings...trying to determine if iron external lattice or internal was applied to the Webb build. You also earlier noted that Webb was fond(Or simply did), of using less wood then McKay(Not sure of your source for this). If that notion is accurate, then iron straps would/could be your logical choice. With that, then do you have accurate information to permit you to make the correct alterations to your framing to accommodate them? Or are you gonna make your best educated guess? I ask, only to settle my opinion, because up to this point..you have been acutely attentive to every detail that accompanied such a hull construction.......down to the last detail. But if inadequate information allows for artistic license.....then purity of representation takes a back seat to license. What will you be using for the strapping/banding. Copper,brass? Soldered or riveted? I apologize if I seem critical..I worked with Navy model makers and if every aspect of a model was not represented as authentic as the original...it did not fly. Personally from what I have seen here on these pages, I think your skill and attention to detail is second to none. Feel free to blow me off. I'm not that good of a modeler anyway. Rob

I Located another rare image of the between decks of the Glory of the Seas 1869. Image was taken in 1911 during preparations for a *captains* ball. Note the cross diagonal bracing....this was done internally and from wood. Image is of poor quality. Photographic evidence the practice of internal wood bracing was practiced by the very famous Clipper builder Donald McKay. Now if Webb...repeated the practice on his clippers...no one may truly know..however since both builders learned under Webb's father...the idea that they did is not unreasonable. Factually..who knows really? Enjoy

Not to beat a dead horse...but in further research I found some more very rare images that might be of aid. As you well know both Webb and McKay learned under the skilled hand of Webb the elder....and it isn't too much of a stretch to imagine similar techniques may have developed for both builders. My own research has produced un-contestable evidence that McKay used internal wood diagonal cross bracing. This evidence may only suggest he did so on all of his clippers...but is not quantitative. Here is several images...one of a copy of a drawing my the builder of the cross section of the Glory of the Seas...note to the left the diagonal truss additions......and in the second image of between decks on the Glory when she was being refitted as a fish packing ship...the clear diagonal wooden braces between ribs and knees. He also used iron banding to reinforce knees, overheads and central support knees. I thought it might add some more evidence that wooden internal diagonal structures were in use up to the close of the clipper era in American vessels.

I rigged the jackstays on the foremast yards and today I will rig them with their flemish horses, stirrups and foot ropes and blocks. Rob

Really good question.......However, Most ships that were varnished then ended up gettingpainted anyway...it protected better and was typically the product on hand when refinish was necessary. So I paint...since exposed wood was rarely seen on open water vessels.. Your example is very nice and a good modeling answer would be good. Good luck and good model. Rob

FANTASTIC..what is the scale? Rob

Great recovery Nenad......super job making the corrections. Rob

Just a picture showing her at pier.......

Thanks guys....I'm not as attentive as most and surely not as skilled........I tend to build ships that have spent time in the weather..and at the hand of working men. As soon as my Ferreira build is finished...I'll surely get back to the Glory. Rob

Some closeup of the gunnel and deadeyes...

Right..thanks. I need to get to work on this ship and really try to finish it....so I can get back to the Glory of the Seas and the Donald McKay. I just had my daughters wedding so things are getting back to normal around here. Rob

I know right..Elia. McKay built gang ways.....and his ship Donald McKay has only one gangway.....that is my next build. Great work........ Rob

Thanks Wayne...further study revealed that Carl Cutler's book *Greyhounds of the Sea* contains that very information...not to mention the building/final outcome data on hundreds of clippers. Again..thanks. Rob

Ed do you know who build the Golden State..was that Webb or a California builder? There wasn't too many of them if I'm not mistaken(which it appears I am frequently) Rob

I see. Yes many clippers were altered by their new owners...sometimes quite quickly upon receipt. I 'm in awe of your acute detail and goal of perfection. I do not retain such a burden. My humble builds are modeled upon my perceptions (through photographic evidence) of a more weathered *Used* modeled representation. My build of the Glory of the Seas lent itself to ample license.....since she had undergone an extensive remodel around 1872. Enough babble. I understand your position....and am duly impressed. I'll not inflict myself upon you any further. Rob

Beautiful rigging..one question, why do you use a jig to set and seize your shrouds? They are never perfectly aligned..not intended to be so...especially when you needed to tighten a loose shroud...after extremely high winds. Also..I never understood builders who use tan running rigging for deadeye seizing.....natural rope tuned dark grey and almost black due to extreme weather exposure. I naturally weather all my models.....no sucha thing as a non weathered (REAL) ship. IMV Thanks..... Rob

Fantastic.....just fantastic. I love rigging.

Ed....I posted the CS image to demonstrate it too had lattice cross members....comparing it to wooden American clippers was not my goal....Thanks for the clarification. I'll stop throwing out bones......It appears I don't know what the h3ll I'm talking about. I'll quietly watch. Rob