Blackie

I started this AL kit Harvey some 12 years after 2 other kit builds - Mercury and Panart Saint Lucia, a tartan. The build progressed very slowly and I abandoned it about 8 years ago due to work and other interests. Finally in mid last year I was able to get back to it and I finished the hull planking just before Christmas. However, about then I began a lot of research into Baltimore clippers and I realised that the Harvey kit is "not true to form". My version of the kit materials-wise does seem to be quite good compared to those that I have read about so perhaps the kit has deteriorated over the past decade. Anyway, I now see that the deck layout could not be as shown in the kit and I have decided to scratch build my deck fittings to a new layout and I have almost completed a scratch build of the jolly boat for the stern davits.
 
The deck fittings are made but not attached and I am also building new cannon carriages about half the size of the kit parts - this is the correct size as far as I can determine using the same brass cannon in the kit which seem to be 4 pounders. I must admit that I have been a bit distracted by other things and doing some research on the rigging but hope to get going again now on the build.
 
I welcome any comments.

Jan-Willem
 
Here are the photos you requested.  Hope it helps.  That solid block you see runs all the way to the stem where it wraps around the bowsprit.
 

 
I think the stanchion count is accurate.   I suspect that not every frame is continued above the deck so the number of stanchions is less than the number of frames.
 
Enjoy, and let me know if I can share anything else with you.
 
Bob

Gentleman,
 
I have deleted Igor's hijack of this log.  And all of his posts which seem to be reflecting a pirated kit.  I'll continue to monitor just in case.  
 
Thanks for your forbearance.

It's been some time since I posted something but I have moved on a little with the main mast and most of its rigging now fitted.

I started this AL kit Harvey some 12 years after 2 other kit builds - Mercury and Panart Saint Lucia, a tartan. The build progressed very slowly and I abandoned it about 8 years ago due to work and other interests. Finally in mid last year I was able to get back to it and I finished the hull planking just before Christmas. However, about then I began a lot of research into Baltimore clippers and I realised that the Harvey kit is "not true to form". My version of the kit materials-wise does seem to be quite good compared to those that I have read about so perhaps the kit has deteriorated over the past decade. Anyway, I now see that the deck layout could not be as shown in the kit and I have decided to scratch build my deck fittings to a new layout and I have almost completed a scratch build of the jolly boat for the stern davits.
 
The deck fittings are made but not attached and I am also building new cannon carriages about half the size of the kit parts - this is the correct size as far as I can determine using the same brass cannon in the kit which seem to be 4 pounders. I must admit that I have been a bit distracted by other things and doing some research on the rigging but hope to get going again now on the build.
 
I welcome any comments.

Hi Floyd and Russ Thanks for comments.
 
Floyd, now to try and answer your queries.
The planking was a long time in the making. I divided the hull into 4 and then used a flexible tape and proportional dividers to determine each plank width at each bulkhead/frame.
 
I agree with you about the pump location. It must be as far aft as possible to get into the lowest depth of the bilge and just behind the main mast seems the correct location for the Harvey model. I have attached shots of the binnacle, cabin, pump and galley stove pipe. The binnacle is from Karl Heinz Marquardt's book The Global Schooner p201. It is 3 compartments, each with vertical sliding panels; the centre section is for a light and so the ring on top is the "chimney", the outer sections had compasses in them. Charles Davis in The Built-Up Ship Model also shows a box-type binnacle.
 
The cabin is my version as I did not like the clumsy kit one. I believe that the companionway covering/hatch would be better integrated with the companion light.
 
I do not have any gratings though I did make them from the kit and have retired them to the "extras" box. I don't believe that a single deck vessel such as the Baltimore clipper with low freeboard would be fitted with gratings over the hatches even if they could be covered and battened - why not just fit solid hatch covers to keep the hold reasonably dry, which can be removed relatively easily at anytime for ventilation compared to canvas covers and battens?
 
Yes, it is a stove pipe and a small hatch ahead of it to get some air in over the stove.
 
Cannon shot will be fitted into racks alongside the main hatch. I have bought some smaller shot (2mm balls) to fit better with my idea that the cannon are 4 pounders. I agree with your comment about moving the aftmost cannon forward. Its a pity that when I built the bulwarks a few years ago, I did not know as much about Baltimore clippers as I think I do now. I am thinking about cutting in cannon port up forward about inline with the foremast or perhaps just forward of the foremast channels.
 
Finally, my date of 1820 was a bit of guesswork based on Howard Chapelle's The Baltimore Clipper Its Origin and Development in which he talks about the design being used by slavers after the 1812 war as it was very fast and could sometimes outrun the Royal Navy cruisers. On reflection my deck layout might be a bit influenced by Chapelle's comments on slavers which went for unencumbered decks with smaller and fewer openings. That said Chapelle's book has a number of drawings of clippers and similar vessels which all show few deck fittings and dates of 1811, 1815, 1816, 1817, or so.
 
Hmmm. these fittings look OK in real-life but a bit rough under the macro lens.

I don't know where the time goes though some travelling has slowed me down a bit. Progress shots are attached and I have now almost finished the main mast, main topmast, boom and gaff. I have also made the yards for the foremast but will not fit them until I have finished the ratlines. The rigging is not tightened until I rig the main mast as I have seen changes in rigging already set when I add other lines.The deck houses etc are completed but will be fitted after the masts and rigging.

Hi Floyd and Russ Thanks for comments.
 
Floyd, now to try and answer your queries.
The planking was a long time in the making. I divided the hull into 4 and then used a flexible tape and proportional dividers to determine each plank width at each bulkhead/frame.
 
I agree with you about the pump location. It must be as far aft as possible to get into the lowest depth of the bilge and just behind the main mast seems the correct location for the Harvey model. I have attached shots of the binnacle, cabin, pump and galley stove pipe. The binnacle is from Karl Heinz Marquardt's book The Global Schooner p201. It is 3 compartments, each with vertical sliding panels; the centre section is for a light and so the ring on top is the "chimney", the outer sections had compasses in them. Charles Davis in The Built-Up Ship Model also shows a box-type binnacle.
 
The cabin is my version as I did not like the clumsy kit one. I believe that the companionway covering/hatch would be better integrated with the companion light.
 
I do not have any gratings though I did make them from the kit and have retired them to the "extras" box. I don't believe that a single deck vessel such as the Baltimore clipper with low freeboard would be fitted with gratings over the hatches even if they could be covered and battened - why not just fit solid hatch covers to keep the hold reasonably dry, which can be removed relatively easily at anytime for ventilation compared to canvas covers and battens?
 
Yes, it is a stove pipe and a small hatch ahead of it to get some air in over the stove.
 
Cannon shot will be fitted into racks alongside the main hatch. I have bought some smaller shot (2mm balls) to fit better with my idea that the cannon are 4 pounders. I agree with your comment about moving the aftmost cannon forward. Its a pity that when I built the bulwarks a few years ago, I did not know as much about Baltimore clippers as I think I do now. I am thinking about cutting in cannon port up forward about inline with the foremast or perhaps just forward of the foremast channels.
 
Finally, my date of 1820 was a bit of guesswork based on Howard Chapelle's The Baltimore Clipper Its Origin and Development in which he talks about the design being used by slavers after the 1812 war as it was very fast and could sometimes outrun the Royal Navy cruisers. On reflection my deck layout might be a bit influenced by Chapelle's comments on slavers which went for unencumbered decks with smaller and fewer openings. That said Chapelle's book has a number of drawings of clippers and similar vessels which all show few deck fittings and dates of 1811, 1815, 1816, 1817, or so.
 
Hmmm. these fittings look OK in real-life but a bit rough under the macro lens.

I started this AL kit Harvey some 12 years after 2 other kit builds - Mercury and Panart Saint Lucia, a tartan. The build progressed very slowly and I abandoned it about 8 years ago due to work and other interests. Finally in mid last year I was able to get back to it and I finished the hull planking just before Christmas. However, about then I began a lot of research into Baltimore clippers and I realised that the Harvey kit is "not true to form". My version of the kit materials-wise does seem to be quite good compared to those that I have read about so perhaps the kit has deteriorated over the past decade. Anyway, I now see that the deck layout could not be as shown in the kit and I have decided to scratch build my deck fittings to a new layout and I have almost completed a scratch build of the jolly boat for the stern davits.
 
The deck fittings are made but not attached and I am also building new cannon carriages about half the size of the kit parts - this is the correct size as far as I can determine using the same brass cannon in the kit which seem to be 4 pounders. I must admit that I have been a bit distracted by other things and doing some research on the rigging but hope to get going again now on the build.
 
I welcome any comments.

It's been some time since I posted something but I have moved on a little with the main mast and most of its rigging now fitted.

I'm off onto the road for a few weeks so before I go, I thought I would post some shots of the main mast and its spars. I will finish coating the mast, top mast, boom and gaff before I go and then fit them when I return. 
When researching the mast dimensions and shape I found two versions of the shape at the mast head. I went with what is shown but now believe that I should have done it the other way. That was to extend the square section down to the base of the cheeks - I think that would look better and it certainly would have been easier to make.

I don't know where the time goes though some travelling has slowed me down a bit. Progress shots are attached and I have now almost finished the main mast, main topmast, boom and gaff. I have also made the yards for the foremast but will not fit them until I have finished the ratlines. The rigging is not tightened until I rig the main mast as I have seen changes in rigging already set when I add other lines.The deck houses etc are completed but will be fitted after the masts and rigging.

It's been some time since I posted something but I have moved on a little with the main mast and most of its rigging now fitted.

I'm off onto the road for a few weeks so before I go, I thought I would post some shots of the main mast and its spars. I will finish coating the mast, top mast, boom and gaff before I go and then fit them when I return. 
When researching the mast dimensions and shape I found two versions of the shape at the mast head. I went with what is shown but now believe that I should have done it the other way. That was to extend the square section down to the base of the cheeks - I think that would look better and it certainly would have been easier to make.

It's been some time since I posted something but I have moved on a little with the main mast and most of its rigging now fitted.

I seem to have some trouble uploading drawing files using PM so here they are. These sketches are what's shown on my log or will be used for the rigging.
I should say that when I rigged the bowsprit and jib boom, I changed the stays, etc slightly from the layouts shown in my sketches included in the early log. This was to allow the anchor stock to swing clear - 3D reality always trumps 2D planning.
Foremast Dims.pdf
Top Foremast Dims.pdf
Foremast Head.pdf
Foremast Yard.pdf
Lower Topsail Yard.pdf
Lower Topsail Yard Halyard.pdf

Wow Floyd, where will you keep it? That's such a beautiful looking hull shape. I'm looking forward to seeing it rigged.
Keep at it (then back to your Harvey).
Blackie

Thank you! OK...nearly at the end of the rigging now. WHEW! All of the sails ( at least all it's getting...) are up now. There's a bit of fettling left and the main mast shrouds need rattling down... I think a couple of days off and then start on her boat and anchors. Now, before anyone says anything, I know that there are undoubtedly errors and omissions in my rigging. It's been a bit of a struggle finding out what where and when. Since this is my first scratchbuilt sailing ship, I'm reasonably pleased with how it's going.

I'm off onto the road for a few weeks so before I go, I thought I would post some shots of the main mast and its spars. I will finish coating the mast, top mast, boom and gaff before I go and then fit them when I return. 
When researching the mast dimensions and shape I found two versions of the shape at the mast head. I went with what is shown but now believe that I should have done it the other way. That was to extend the square section down to the base of the cheeks - I think that would look better and it certainly would have been easier to make.

Looks like I started something....... I just don't know what!!
 
First, the title of this was changed by the administrators. and, in the process, they changed the entire meaning... I wonder about that...
 
It was never intended to address "poorly designed" kits.  Poorly designed kits would be those which don't go together well as a result of poor engineering, or poor material selection.  That was never a part of my post..... until the admin staff changed the title from "Is it real or is it memor........."
 
The concern was about how to determine if a particular kit was a model of a real ship (i.e. was there a "real" ship which had the same name, and bore a reasonable resemblence to the model).  I really do not care if the kit is a model of a particular ship ON A PARTICULAR DAY, or if it is a model of a reconstruction of a full sized ship on display somewhere.  That ship on display in a museum is still a "real" ship.. It may not, exactly, duplicate the historical ship it is supposed to represent, but it is still a REAL ship.  The Mayflower 2 is a perfect example.... it may not be the original Mayflower, but it is still a real ship.  It crossed the Atlantic. (I know, as I was lucky enough to have seen it under full sail when my dad flew us out over it a day, or two before it arrived)
 
As to accuracy of a kit..... That is an argument which could rage on for longer than any of us have to live!   I have no problem when a manufacturer bases his kit on the best information he had when the kit was designed.  The individual modeler can research, and detail the model to whatever accuracy he is willing, and capable of doing.
 
My problem is when a manufacturer outright LIES about the fact that the model doesn't really depict ANY real ship and misleads the purchaser into thinking it is a "scale" model by spinning a long, detailed, story about the exploits of the real ship the kit is modeled after when the reality is that no real ship ever existed!
 
Dave

As I am waiting for the last game of the Olympic Ice hockey I have been working of on my Harvey for a while..... and long before,   ( updates has been asked for)
Planking is complete and all is with 1.5mm walnut first layer..... and only layer.
However, I do like the finish even without any finish. There is several more steps before any painting will happen.
I tried to use minimal wood filler and where it is filled, a combo of wood-filler and dust from wood has been combined for the matching.
Additional sanding is needed but I am ready to for the next step of planking.... yeah! finally!

I don't know where the time goes though some travelling has slowed me down a bit. Progress shots are attached and I have now almost finished the main mast, main topmast, boom and gaff. I have also made the yards for the foremast but will not fit them until I have finished the ratlines. The rigging is not tightened until I rig the main mast as I have seen changes in rigging already set when I add other lines.The deck houses etc are completed but will be fitted after the masts and rigging.

Moving slowly but have finished the gaff for the foremast as per the attached.

Hi Floyd and Russ Thanks for comments.
 
Floyd, now to try and answer your queries.
The planking was a long time in the making. I divided the hull into 4 and then used a flexible tape and proportional dividers to determine each plank width at each bulkhead/frame.
 
I agree with you about the pump location. It must be as far aft as possible to get into the lowest depth of the bilge and just behind the main mast seems the correct location for the Harvey model. I have attached shots of the binnacle, cabin, pump and galley stove pipe. The binnacle is from Karl Heinz Marquardt's book The Global Schooner p201. It is 3 compartments, each with vertical sliding panels; the centre section is for a light and so the ring on top is the "chimney", the outer sections had compasses in them. Charles Davis in The Built-Up Ship Model also shows a box-type binnacle.
 
The cabin is my version as I did not like the clumsy kit one. I believe that the companionway covering/hatch would be better integrated with the companion light.
 
I do not have any gratings though I did make them from the kit and have retired them to the "extras" box. I don't believe that a single deck vessel such as the Baltimore clipper with low freeboard would be fitted with gratings over the hatches even if they could be covered and battened - why not just fit solid hatch covers to keep the hold reasonably dry, which can be removed relatively easily at anytime for ventilation compared to canvas covers and battens?
 
Yes, it is a stove pipe and a small hatch ahead of it to get some air in over the stove.
 
Cannon shot will be fitted into racks alongside the main hatch. I have bought some smaller shot (2mm balls) to fit better with my idea that the cannon are 4 pounders. I agree with your comment about moving the aftmost cannon forward. Its a pity that when I built the bulwarks a few years ago, I did not know as much about Baltimore clippers as I think I do now. I am thinking about cutting in cannon port up forward about inline with the foremast or perhaps just forward of the foremast channels.
 
Finally, my date of 1820 was a bit of guesswork based on Howard Chapelle's The Baltimore Clipper Its Origin and Development in which he talks about the design being used by slavers after the 1812 war as it was very fast and could sometimes outrun the Royal Navy cruisers. On reflection my deck layout might be a bit influenced by Chapelle's comments on slavers which went for unencumbered decks with smaller and fewer openings. That said Chapelle's book has a number of drawings of clippers and similar vessels which all show few deck fittings and dates of 1811, 1815, 1816, 1817, or so.
 
Hmmm. these fittings look OK in real-life but a bit rough under the macro lens.

I started this AL kit Harvey some 12 years after 2 other kit builds - Mercury and Panart Saint Lucia, a tartan. The build progressed very slowly and I abandoned it about 8 years ago due to work and other interests. Finally in mid last year I was able to get back to it and I finished the hull planking just before Christmas. However, about then I began a lot of research into Baltimore clippers and I realised that the Harvey kit is "not true to form". My version of the kit materials-wise does seem to be quite good compared to those that I have read about so perhaps the kit has deteriorated over the past decade. Anyway, I now see that the deck layout could not be as shown in the kit and I have decided to scratch build my deck fittings to a new layout and I have almost completed a scratch build of the jolly boat for the stern davits.
 
The deck fittings are made but not attached and I am also building new cannon carriages about half the size of the kit parts - this is the correct size as far as I can determine using the same brass cannon in the kit which seem to be 4 pounders. I must admit that I have been a bit distracted by other things and doing some research on the rigging but hope to get going again now on the build.
 
I welcome any comments.