ClipperFan
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Rob, it's amazing how busy the base of your mizzenmast has become with so many lines being belayed just there alone! I can see why you found it necessary to add extra belaying pins in the rail. I'm curious, are you following the belaying chart from "Clipper Ship Captain" or developing your own pattern?- 3,560 replies
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Rob, we will meet our objectives in our own unique ways!
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Rob, if you review the 80 some odd pages of your blog alone, add in Vlad's dozen or more and there's more than enough images and discoveries to support multiple articles. I guess it depends on the level of interest the initial one generates. I will discuss the possibility of a series with Mike to see how he feels. Meanwhile, I don't want you or Vlad to feel any pressure to speed up your construction processes that might adversely impact your build qualities.
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Rob, I wouldn't be concerned about the article's deadline. There's already plenty of photos being submitted. Once I finish writing it. I estimate it's about 75% done. I will share it with you unedited just for your response. At the same time, it will be emailed to Mike for his critique and I'm sure the inevitable editing. He's had many articles published so I'm sure he'll know how to proceed. Meanwhile, just proceed at a comfortable pace. If there's enough interest and with author Mike's "juice" I strongly suspect there will be, there probably will be a follow up article. What's really exciting is how this writing project is taking on a life of it's own. It will be fascinating to see Mike's reaction. That will be the true test of whether I've hit the mark or if it will need more work. Either way, July's deadline will be the one.
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Rob, I have high confidence that the finished piece will actually get published. Since I'm including some images I took off of some museum websites, I imagine I'll need to get their ok to include their images. I don't expect to get compensation, so I don't anticipate any problem. Maybe they'll even supply better images too. What's surprising is how much volume there really is to cover. At this point it's also becoming image heavy but it feels like the photos being shared really contribute to the narrative. I'm sure once it's reviewed and edited by Mike, it will be pared down to a more reasonable size. Or, who knows? Maybe it will become a two part installment. One thing I'm sure of. I will not miss the July 1st deadline. This will be submitted long before then.
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Rob, your masterclass on rigging is just deeply satisfying to observe. It also makes total sense to rig from aft to bow forward, as that's precisely how the stresses of sailing with stiff winds would be spread. I totally agree about the davit positions on both sides being identical. As I hope to include my revised 3' hull sketch with the Nautical Research Journal article, revised positioning of those davits is just one of a few corrections to be made. Mike's Ozzie friend Ron Haug has identified about a dozen minor errors. I've asked for his list in order to address them all. I want to meet his standards in order to have the most accurate, ultimate "Glory of the Seas" resource for everyone to be proud of. Finally I hope to darken all major lines in order to make it easier to scan. While I couldn't meet the April 1st deadline which is their Fall edition, I'm well positioned to meet July 1st, for Winter 2023. Vladimir, if you could possibly fix the rear gangway to the rear carriage house, I'd love to share that image. I know it's also a challenge but if you could also sculpt an "Athena" figurehead, I really want to show the impressive bow of your model too. It's my intention to give each of your creations as equal representation as possible. "Druxey" I haven't forgotten your lovely line drawing of Glory's figurehead. Let me know if your actual name is in your profile so I can give you the proper recognition you deserve. At this point, I've been using your full names. If anyone's not ok with that, just let me know. With the too many images included already, this is turning out to be a very long article. Once done, it will be submitted to Mike for his critique and editing. If anyone knows how to share a Word document, please let me know and I'll be happy to share it here.
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Rob, when I saw your incredibly realistic modeling of weathered, furled sails on your mizzen, spanker boom, it immediately reminded me of this scene from 1910. Your work practically matches that scene just about perfectly.
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Rick310 I have a feeling you'd appreciate this. Mike Mjelde shared this lovely painting with me. He wanted me to see the elaborate stern carving on a large American Clipper Ship on left. It's an excerpt from the book "Antonio Jacobsen, Painted Ships on Painted Oceans" retrospective on the artist's works. As part of my ongoing efforts to reconstruct the beautiful, elaborate carvings on Glory's stern, I did this preliminary pen & ink sketch. When I get a chance, I'll revisit this with pencil to make it more workable. I think you did an excellent job, far better than rather hoky, awkward attachments provided with some kits.
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George K, nice descriptions of the complex work necessary to create scale chain plates. It gives me a greater appreciation for the work done behind the scenes. The chains on the ladder make total sense. Rob discovered that Glory also had metal rails that went clear across the rear of the forecastle deck too an item which hardly ever gets depicted. .
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Rick310 approximating carved Stern work on your "Flying Fish" is just beautiful. You've managed to create it to scale too. A feat even more impressive, considering the scale you're working in.
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Rick310 Michael Mjelde sent us detailed images of the Samuel Walters "Glory of the Seas" oil. In this quarterdeck scene, it's evident there are no belaying pins in either railings. I noticed there's some block and tackle rigging inside her bulkhead, just ahead of the mizzen shrouds. How that's mounted isn't visible and by the angle of the lines, they appear to go to the main mast. Based on this evidence, it looks like Rob's approach is correct, at least as Glory's concerned.
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Rick310 if by any chance you still have that 15 yr old catalog, can you scan & share the same painting from it? There's some distortion in photos, probably from an inability to get a decent angle and the large size of the piece. I'd really appreciate seeing how it appeared in the catalog, if at all possible.
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Rick310 thanks for sharing this ultra rare contemporary depiction of "Flying Fish". Before you mentioned it, I had no idea such an impressive piece even existed. In the 2nd image, the left side has a beautiful blue sky. The rest of the painting has more of a golden hue. I was wondering if the true colors of the piece are that blue area?
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Rick310 two facts about the rear house rail on "Flying Fish" which differ from other McKay Clippers. First and this unusual element is confirmed by two contemporary pieces of work, there's no surrounding safety rail for the roof of the rear structure; second the front overhang (3' on Glory) and about 6' of both corners are protected my a metal rail. As we've both concluded, Buttersworth depicted this lovely rail as brass. His portrayal of the graceful curving ends feels correct too. Modeling a curving wall should be relatively easy. Just get a small flat piece of wood like a tongue depressor. Measure the distance from quarterdeck inner bulkhead wall to outside corner of the rear house front fascia. Drill a hole and insert a pencil vertically through it. Trace floor lines consistently distant from bulkheads. Done properly this results in two walkways equidistant while the house walls match the same pattern as the rear quarter deck bulkheads.
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Rick310 I like how you crafted that curved piece. It definitely matches that depicted in the chinese painting. I thought this image would interest you, while it's contradictory to both "Flying Fish" pieces of artwork, here's the actual rear quarter rail ending as seen on "Glory of the Seas". It appears to be an elegantly curved piece of wrought iron which is inserted into the top of the rail on one side and straight down into the hull on the other. I think you'll find that curved diminishing walls will look more sensible once installed. As for the wider quarter rails, I was wondering since most of the lines are terminated inside the missen shrouds, according to how Rob is rigging his Glory, would the extra belaying pins be necessary?
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Rob, an elegant solution for an elegant vessel. I particularly appreciate the flexibility of being able to remove your model from the stand.
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Rick310 first, thanks for the compliment. While you can't revise the front fascia, already more accurate than most, you can still modify the sides into a gradual reducing curve and reduce the rear wall to match the similar profile as confirmed by the photo of Glory docked in Alaska. Such a configuration makes better sense for working of the ship. What I find very unusual is the missing safety rails for most of the rear house but according to both works of art, that's the case. The Buttersworth piece looks like the rail is painted yellow but I suspect it might have been brass instead. McKay was famous for using the finest materials in constructing his vessels so the brass isn't that far fetched. As for the more natural Flying Fish figurehead, that's in keeping with the more ornate carvings of the time. Sailors were very proud of their figureheads, which epitomized the spirit of the vessel. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.
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Rob I never tire of seeing your beautiful ship.
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H.c Rick310 I applaud your determination to recreate the more ornate rear house of "Flying Fish" as it authentically appeared. Using the Buttersworth oil, commissioned by her Owners specifically to honor her 1st place finish in the "Great Deep Sea Derby" in which she out sailed 14 of the best American Clippers, including other crack McKay vessels, I believe is a very reliable source to refer to. I agree with your decision to include the larger more ornate windows. We now have definitive proof that "Glory of the Seas" actually had 4 good sized ones. I've attached a picture of her front facade so you can see how elaborate the house really was. Buttersworth appears to echo Glory's house but with an added embellishment of small spheres which surround the entire structure. My 2 suggestions are that the 2 outer windows would be a little closer to her central doors. There does appear to be a panel between the window and the corner. It also makes sense considering the large corner piece will block the view, while being a little further in would solve that issue. My other observation is that the rear contours of the house in fact narrow towards the stern in order to keep the walkways on both sides consistent. This can be clearly seen from the stern image of Glory. I've included a sketch of the section to show how it looked.
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Rob, this picture of Glory's prow is one of the most beautiful so far. It has such a graceful "S" curve to her that perfectly matches the vessel herself. I know you were highlighting the mounting points in this pic but I thought you might appreciate knowing I recognize the authenticity of your lovely model.
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Rob, tell Mike I welcome his help. I'm in process of writing it now in anticipation of meeting the April 1st deadline, which wouldn't be published until the Fall. I was wondering what happened with Mike. I thought it was because he was so busy with his book publication that he had no time to email me. Apparently my gmail is full. I've been trying to empty it but I can't seem to find a way to delete all. I'll send Mike an email from my business address and see if that works.
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Rob, my apologies. I was concerned that a big, bulky cleat would somehow bury your lovely model. Boy was I wrong. I agree 100% with your clever choice. It's a distinctive and classic mounting for a distinctively different Clipper Ship. Your work is so elegant that I believe Donald McKay himself would approve!
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gak1965 the fence rails which can be seen at the entrance to the Mansion are purportedly taken directly off of the Clipper "Flying Fish" by the ship's Captain. Since both commissioned Buttersworth oil and China Trade work depict a rear house with only a metal rail at front and a small section of the sides, the sole source of these wooden turned rails has to be those surrounding the exterior of the quarterdeck. Here's a fascinating link to the Southeby's Real Estate listing. Apparently Captain Simeon Jones named his home "Longacre." https://www.newseaburyre.com/listing/21608269/490-main-street-barnstable-ma-2632/
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Rick310 the Model Shipways solid built Hull of your McKay Clipper "Flying Fish" is simply beautiful. I'm very familiar with the lovely tribute painting of her by Buttersworth, courtesy of the very generous on-line Vallejo Gallery. Your reference to a China Trade piece auctioned off in 2005 is one I've heard of before. If they're available, please post the pictures you took of this intriguing work. I've read that Chinese artists would have spray-painted backgrounds to which a particular vessel would be added as the centerpiece. This unique practice was done specifically for a quick turn around in order to sell it to Ship's Captains. These paintings were highly prized among Ship's Owners and Captains due to their highly accurate portrayal of their own vessels. So you can see why I'd love to see your images of this China Trade depiction of "Flying Fish." For the past eighteen months, as a result of the wonderful generosity of "Glory of the Seas" author Michael Mjelde, Rob Wiederrich's group have been the benefit of ultra rare, incredibly sharp images of McKay's final Clipper. I've shared one here, which is a great view of her after cabin. As you can clearly see, the sides of the rear house conform to the narrowing ship's stern. There are other great pictures of the front fascia of this great house which also verifies a very ornate design. So as not to hijack your blog with too many Glory pics, I've shared just one other of the front. "Flying Fish" being an Extreme Clipper and a much smaller ship than "Glory of the Seas" which was a Medium Clipper, her resulting proportions would be reduced too. Finally, the actual rail which surrounded the rear quarters of "Flying Fish" still exist today. Apparently her Captain Simeon Jones repurposed these components for use at his Mansion at 490 Main Street, Centerville (Cape Cod) Mass. Finally when it comes to the construction and appearance of her bow, for some peculiar reason, all models of McKay Clippers mysteriously leave off the naval hoods and cutwaters which were part of McKay Clippers ever since he introduced his Extreme Clipper "Staghound." If you like, I shared some concept sketches with George which incorporate these components and incorporates a more realistic, natural flying fish figurehead. I'd welcome an opportunity to collaborate with you on your model.
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Rob, consistent, impressive, clean work, as per your usual high standards. I noticed the addition of the exhaust vent. It looks nice. How you get your ratlines so level and evenly spaced is simply amazing. Keep up the great work!
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